The Instigator
Fraekfyr21
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points

National Health Care should be established in the United States

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/3/2015 Category: Health
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,033 times Debate No: 69355
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (5)

 

Fraekfyr21

Pro

The US does not offer free health care to its citizens, which means that you could actually be charged $2,000 for an ambulance pickup. Another example is a knee replacement, now hang on, a knee replacement costs $45,000. That is extremely absurd. We want to establish a National Health Care system, for the better.
Thank you for your participation, I am looking forward to hear your arguments and opinions.
16kadams

Con


I thank my opponent for instigating. I would like to note his entire argument is this: healthcare costs a lot in the US, a single payer system would reduce cost, and therefore we should obtain a single payer system. Although I agree with the first premise—that the US system costs a lot—the second one, that a single payer (SP) system would reduce costs is incorrect. He calls it ‘national healthcare’, similar to that of UK—which is a SP system.


Costs


My opponent actually offers no evidence for his position. He shows how expensive it is in the US, but offers no comparable evidence that (1) the high cost is due to the healthcare system or (2) comparing it to SP systems. Although (1) may be true, high costs is also associated with the wealth of a country. Wealthy countries spend more on elective surgeries, go to the ER more often, etc. all of which raise costs.


It first must be noted that we already have government insurance—Medicare, Medicaid, VA, and many others. Those combined already spend more than other OECD countries [1]. Thus, if we did do a general comparison, it would be flawed as the sheer size of our country means our current National Health measures cost so much. So expanding these systems would increase costs.


My opponent’s case also seems to assume healthcare under SP would be free. Nothing is free, so this assumption is untrue. Medicare, Medicaid, VA all offer ‘free’ healthcare, but it is paid for through taxes. And the fact those programs already cost more than other countries is telling. Imagine if we expanded those to a large SP system. Taxes would be through the roof! So although a person may feel they are saving money as they do not pay the doctor directly, their pocketbook actually may be more affected as they not only pay for their healthcare, but they pay for everyone’s via income and payroll taxes.


Quality of care


Canada—due to their SP system—has a massive wait time problem. The wait time from your general practitioner to when you see a specialist is 8.6 weeks. The time you wait from seeing the specialist before you actually get treatment is 9.6 weeks. So assuming you go from your normal doctor to a specialist and then surgery, you wait 18.2 weeks [2], about 126 days, about 34% of a year.


A comprehensive study between the Canadian and US healthcare systems concluded the assumption that SP systems are superior to the US systems are not supported by the study [3]. In fact, they conclude the US system may be superior to that of the Canadian single payer system.


So even if costs are reduced, quality will also decrease—and I have provided evidence that costs will not change significantly and may increase.


1. http://www.bloombergview.com...


2. http://www.fraserinstitute.org...


3. http://www.nber.org...


Debate Round No. 1
Fraekfyr21

Pro

Fraekfyr21 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Fraekfyr21

Pro

Fraekfyr21 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Josh_debate 2 years ago
Josh_debate
Government run healthcare is a disaster, the only way to have good affordable healthcare, is for the government to get out.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by Paleophyte 2 years ago
Paleophyte
Fraekfyr2116kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeits
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
Fraekfyr2116kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Con. Pro forfeited multiple rounds. S&G - Tie. Both had adequate spelling and grammar. Arguments - Con. Con was able to swiftly overcome Pro's opening arguments, while also building a strong case of his own. Pro then forfeited the rest of the debate which left Con standing unchallenged. Thus Con wins arguments. Sources - Con. Pro failed to utilize sources in this debate whereas Con did. This is a clear win for Con.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Fraekfyr2116kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
Fraekfyr2116kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF... and yes, a little tempted to be a bastard and penalize S&G for "rekt m8."
Vote Placed by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
Fraekfyr2116kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff