The Instigator
Weltkaiser
Pro (for)
The Contender
MRF4REEZY
Con (against)

National Socialism vs Communism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/29/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 754 times Debate No: 101524
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
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Weltkaiser

Pro

First off, it's not called nazism. It's called national socialism. People who call it nazism are imbecilic cunts who know nothing about the ideology, and use it as an insult to everyone they disagree with. Communism is so obviously wrong that every communist politician and activist should be executed even if they never unjustifiably imprisoned or executed anyone. Communist systems (that is, a system where the government owns all the means of production) are very obviously flawed theoretically (see Ludwig von Mises) and history has proven this. It is impossible to run a communist country well and that mass starvation and low standards of living are an inevitable result. No country in the world has ever even been communist. Every country that has claimed to be a communist country, are either socialist (low-key communism) or capitalist (China). These results are so obvious that any communist politician/activist should be executed for the simple violation of promoting communism. Why? Because if Karl Marx and his crew never existed then such things as mass starvation would not have occurred in the USSR, early PRC, Vietnam and North Korea. Essentially, they deserve to die for coming to incorrect disastrous conclusions about economic systems and implementing those conclusions. Imagine that a popular movement to implement Communism is your country occurred. Enough politicians were elected to implement policies that effectively made your country a Communist. I would become a rebel to fight the establishment, or just move away. I would definitely kill though if no one was allowed to leave the country - which is historically typical of Communist governments.A279; National socialism is a philosophy (or worldview) that is based on three principles: (1) *Natural Order.* We believe that the universe is governed by natural laws. In order for Man to be happy and successful, he must first learn what these laws are and then follow them. We believe that Man is a part of the natural world and that he is in no way separate or distinct from it. Consequently, we believe that society should be structured in accordance with the laws of nature, and not in opposition to them as is the case today. Under national socialism, every aspect of society will be in accord with the natural order: the way we structure the government, the way we raise our children, the way we plan our cities, the way we grow our food--EVERYTHING. Indeed, in this context, national socialism is the original "green movement." (2) *Racial Idealism.* Racial idealism is based on the love of your own race and people. It means placing the welfare and interests of the racial community to which you belong ahead of your own political interests and desires. As racial idealists, we have no wish to harm, persecute, control or exploit other racial groups. We are only interested in protecting out own people. And don't start telling me about the holocaust, because it didn't happen and you have no proof that it happened. We believe that all men are NOT created equal. Just as every individual has his own personal strengths and weaknesses, so each race has certain qualities that make it different from other races. We believe that the Aryan (North Germanic/Nordic) and the entire White race has the right to maintain its biological, cultural and political independence, and that it has the right to control its own destiny. We also believe that Whites and Aryans (A superior sub-race to the White race) have the right to defend themselves against all attacks--no matter where they come from. (3) *The Upward Development of the White and Aryan Race.* We want to do more than just defend our race: we want to see it improve. This can be done by encouraging a high birthrate among those Whites and Aryans who are the healthiest, strongest and most intelligent. At the same time, science should work to eliminate hereditary weaknesses and defects among our people by seeking birth control among those people. Our goal is that each new generation of White and Aryan children will be better off than the one before it. The national socialist movement started in 1919 with Anton Drexler. In 1933, the first national socialist state was formed when Adolf Hitler was elected chancellor of Germany. In 1945, it suffered a military defeat at the hands of its enemies. This catastrophic blow was the greatest disaster to befall the Whites and Aryans in recorded history. In 1959, an American naval commander named George Lincoln Rockwell resurrected national socialism in the United States. This reborn movement has since spread to every White nation on the globe, and also Japan. Popular movements include: - Nordic Resistance Movement (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland) - National Action (United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia) - National Democratic Party (Germany) - German Alternative (Germany) - Vigrid (Norway) - United Patriots Front (Australia) - France-R"surrection (France) - Dritter Weg (Germany) - National Radical Camp (Poland) - Workers' Party of Social Justice (Czechia) - Traditionalist Worker Party (United States) - Jobbik (Hungary) - National Socialistic Japanese Workers' Party (Japan) -------------------------- Now, for the economics of national socialism. "The work that everybody is called on to supply cannot be judged by its objective value. Everyone has only one duty: to take trouble. Whoever does this duty becomes, by doing so, indispensable to the community -- whether it is something that only he can do, or that's within the capacities of anyone. Otherwise the man who achieves something important, the effect of which can be felt for decades, or even for centuries, would have a right to puff himself up and despise the man who sweeps the streets." - Adolf Hitler To understand national socialist economics, it is first necessary to realize that communism has the same goal as capitalism, and that it is this goal which is morally unacceptable. Believing in the primacy of the consumer, these economics are based around the economic problem of maximizing human wants attained by the exploitation of limited resources. The only disagreement between these and various other non-Aryan economic theories regards how better to accomplish their shared goal, usually based on whether a top-down or bottom-up feedback circuit is more effective. National socialist economics differs fundamentally from all of these by refusing to treat consumption, and hence productivity, as valuable in itself. Instead, we view economic activity as *remedial* in character. Production is justified on the grounds that it provides unwanted but necessary material remedies to problems that if left unattended will prevent us from fulfilling our purpose. For example, we do not want to be hungry, yet hunger is an unfortunate biological reality, therefore we quite literally take the trouble to produce food in order to remedy the problem of hunger (that we nonetheless would prefer never existed in the first place). But the moment we forget that food is a remedy to hunger and start thinking of hunger as a mechanism that allows us to enjoy food, we fall back into the consumerist mindset. "It is the high task of our national economy to direct the consumption power of our people along lines which can be satisfied out of the resources of our own national production." - Adolf Hitler A National Socialist economy is not centrally planned, but centrally directed. Central planning involves taking demand for granted and then using the state to regulate supply. Central direction involves determining adequate supply and then using the state to limit demand. Hence a National Socialist economy should not be confused with a mixed-market economy, which is a fundamentally capitalist economy with state intervention in subservience to implicitly capitalist values. Hitler himself had no role in micromanaging the economy of National Socialist Germany, but rather was responsible for preventing the economy (and hence those who would seek to manipulate it by investments) from leading astray the state. A National Socialist government guarantees zero unemployment by making it duty of the state to assign a living-wage job to anyone and everyone who wants one. Private businesses, whose task is not to put people to work but to be a reliable provider of their professed products/services, are justified in not hiring more employees than they need to provide their product/service in the required quantity (and no more than this quantity). It therefore falls upon the state to create public works projects " typically in infrastructure, community service or any other field that passively benefits the country as a whole - capable of absorbing all the workers that the private sector cannot absorb, as demonstrated in the Reichsarbeitsdienst and related programs of National Socialist Germany. Note that such assignment should never be compulsory upon anyone, but merely be an offer that is always open. This is not to say that community-minded private businesses cannot also help absorb the unemployed " they could readily do so (and would be actively encouraged to do so by a National Socialist government) by splitting each full-time job into two or more part-time jobs for corresponding fractions of full-time wages until all competent workers have been absorbed. It is mindblowingly simple when you think about it. Hitler warned that: "The basis of Jewish commercial policy is to make matters incomprehensible for a normal brain." Certainly, Jewish collective success throughout history has consistently correlated with the economic complexity of the society involved, hence the ZC propaganda throughout the colonial era to convince the complex economic societies of their "superiority" over the more economically simple (so-called "Third World") societies that they colonized, in order to discourage the former from learning from the latter
MRF4REEZY

Con

The definition of National Socialism is as stated, "The political doctrine of the Nazi Party of Germany" I find it very hard to conclude that you do not have pro Nazi bias, or at least ignorance to what exactly your party represents. There are three things that I find wrong with your argument. One, you deny the holocaust. Two, you believe that the melanin in ones skin defines their racial superiority. Three, you believe that communist people should be executed.
I am going to start with the first part wrong with your argument. First, you do not give any proof of the absence of Nazi genocide by stating, "And don't start telling me about the holocaust, because it didn't happen and you have no proof that it happened." You show no evidence to support your point, and you discount the millions of witnesses, and thousands upon thousands of interviews, photos, and videos to support the Holocaust. To discount all of the evidence staring you in the face is quite ignorant. And to not give any proof to your thesis is basic debate hogwash.
The second major flaw in your argument relates to race. Science has shown again and again, that skin color has nothing to do with higher brain function. The main effects on higher brain function relate to cultural effects, rather than biological effects. During the Spanish inquisition, the Spaniards viewed the South Americans as an inferior race. Yet these people had invented mathematical machines and calculations leaps and bounds ahead of any civilization at the time. Math ability is a very strong indicator to the absence of race superiority. Every culture in the world has made mathematical discoveries, regardless of the innovation level at the time. The best example of race mixing for the betterment of mankind would be during the Roman Empire and the Greek Empire. Hundreds of cultures combined all of their individual discoveries to create an empire like none before in history. Most math, all the way up to the Calculus level was discovered at this time, and would not have been possible without the mixture of cultures and therefore, "races".
Also in regards to race, if you believe that White is a pure race, then historically, and biologically, you are wrong. People with blond hair and blue eyes can still be 100% black. (See the albino black children in Africa) Additionally, the term White is so general, and so broad, that to assume every single white person has certain common weaknesses and strengths is the most absurd case of Hasty Generalization fallacy I have ever seen. You are generalizing literally Millions upon millions of people, each with their own heritage and history. This is completely illogical and wrong at the most basic level of elementary logic.
Your third mistake is in the area of Communism. I am not a communist, I am a pure capitalist. I see problems with both Communism, and any form of Socialism. The idea that because I am breathing, I deserve someone else's things is the most selfish concept I have ever comprehended. Also, the Idea that because I have less or more melanin in my skin, that I have inherent weaknesses or strengths is the most illogical, and bias argument in human society. Racism has caused so many problems in society, and has been a force to divide, rather than unify us. While I don't agree with communism, I do not believe that it is worse than your political party. I believe that just like in your view of races, your political party has both strengths, and weaknesses. Your party is very effective at drawing from outside appearance of others, and using hasty generalizations. Communism is very effective at drawing support from poorer classes, drawing from selfishness and greed. Both of the systems are flawed, and to say that you are right because at least you arent Communist is like saying I can rape someone because at least it's not murder. Its ignorant, and has no base in logic or reason.
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Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Stoogesfan1 9 months ago
Stoogesfan1
As for your economic stipulations, you invalidate capitalism and communism based on your system of morality, and furthermore stipulate that their end goals are effectively equal, which shows that you lack a basic, objective understanding of either ideology or the ability to assess either critically. The fact that you claim your economic system works because of the imposition of asceticism or austerity measures (the reason for this being that all resources must inevitably be geared towards a state of war, leaving no room for decadence or luxury) is ridiculous. It works to a degree, but it's a different emphasis, and this doesn't make it better or worse. Fascist economics are beneficial in the short term, reducing unemployment and showing rapid growth, but are unsustainable without a nigh constant of war (as otherwise luxuries and decadence would naturally proliferate) and having military goods/general goods being consumed at a constant rate (in said eternal war).

You fall back on semantics again, differentiating between central planning and central direction. A fascist economy seeks autarky and protectionism, while also seeking to subjugate corporations deemed essential to the state (and thus the people). Any non-critical corporations are generally allowed to govern themselves and operate within an essentially capitalistic market. You try to distance fascist economics from capitalism by pointing out a moral dichotomy between the two; the moral reasons behind the economic structure don't matter in the assessment of how the economy functions and how the economy is organized. Hitler and the state bureaucracy had a massive role in micromanaging the economy of the Third Reich, as this was the only feasible way to elicit such massive growth and military build-up from the nation itself.

You show a fundamental lack of understanding of the character of the ideology that you profess, much less the ones that you subsequently oppose yourself to.
Posted by Stoogesfan1 9 months ago
Stoogesfan1
Differentiating between National Socialism and Nazism is an exercise in semantics and blatant word manipulation. The NSDAP, or National Socialist German Worker's Party, was the Nazi Party, and fathered/pioneered many concepts of National Socialism. It was ultimately an offshoot of fascism which predicated most of its social theories and beliefs on racial pseudo-science that's been comprehensively debunked by a myriad of reputable scholars in the years following the conclusion of WWII. Fascism originally had little to no racial component and instead based its main social focus in uniting the classes behind the state (the embodiment of the people) and providing them with mild economic reform.

You say that your racial ideology doesn't encourage harm, persecution, or the control/exploitation of other racial groups, but at the same time state that your main priority as a "racial idealist" (a clever euphemism) is to protect your own race. These concepts cannot go hand in hand, as they are inherently contradictory. Protecting your own race specifically is unnecessary if there is no perceived systematic threat against it from another race. If there is a perceived systematic threat, then the purportedly belligerent race will be inevitably persecuted by the state, to varying degrees. Concepts of racial superiority/hierarchy doesn't lessen racial or class tensions, they exacerbate them, and to pretend otherwise is disingenuous.

You also deny the holocaust, which did happen, at least according to overwhelming mountains of reliable evidence, and encompasses not only the jews, but the slavs, and other racial or social "undesireables." The concept of Lebensraum was based on the racial inferiority of the slavs and the ostensible need for more land for the German peoples; The only way this land was going to be seized was through war, and they slavs were going to be systematically killed, marginalized, used as slave labor, and/or deported to achieve the end goal.
Posted by Sonofcharl 9 months ago
Sonofcharl
National Socialism and Communism are just concepts.
it's intolerant people that kill people.
Posted by TheDude03 9 months ago
TheDude03
Both are bad, but I have to admit that National Socialism has killed less people that Communism. So NS>Communism
Posted by Sonofcharl 9 months ago
Sonofcharl
Anyone that needs to use the term "imbecilic cunt" to facilitate a debate, quite frankly is one.
Posted by GoOrDin 9 months ago
GoOrDin
Jangle_wankfred all the way
Posted by FuzzyCatPotato 9 months ago
FuzzyCatPotato
Commies invented the line break -- don't touch your enter key!
Posted by LuciferWept 9 months ago
LuciferWept
Paragraphs. Use them.
Posted by Jangle_WankFred 9 months ago
Jangle_WankFred
Nazism is the political principles of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
It's not the same as national socialism.
Posted by SirHarrison0 9 months ago
SirHarrison0
Honestly, i think this guy just copy pasted most of his first debate round from wiki and other sources.
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