The Instigator
Jifpop09
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
Comrade_Silly_Otter
Con (against)
Losing
8 Points

Nationalism is Good

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Jifpop09
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,456 times Debate No: 45585
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (6)

 

Jifpop09

Pro

This debate is for Comrade Silly Otter. I could not figure out how to challenge a opponent. Anyways, I will be arguing that patriotism and nationalism are a good thing.
Comrade_Silly_Otter

Con

I accept the Challenge.
I will argue that Nationalism is bad and silly.

I will throw down first.

It is silly to praise an area you got born into with artificial borders and so on. Nationalism supports Fascism. I believe it is ignorant and racist considering it divides people up, and make them blame each other instead of working together to fix the problem at hand.

" Nationalism is an Infantile disease, the measles of Mankind " - Albert Einstein
Debate Round No. 1
Jifpop09

Pro

I will start the debate by listing a few brief reasons why nationalism and patriotism is good, allowing for a quicker debate.

Key Differences - I am sure my opponent will use plenty of examples of nationalism gone bad. He will most likely use examples of North Korean nationalism and Nazi nationalism. Dictorial nationalism does not align on the same level as other forms of nationalism. In many countries, nationalism is centered around the essence of the state, and not the figurative government.

Nationalism Binds People Together- Nationalism is what keeps a country together. I refer to myself as a American before I do a Michigander. In the US, we care about our nation as a collective whole. If we were to lack nationalism, what is stopping people from protecting only the interests of themselves and their people. With nationalism, everyone who has citizenship is now considered your fellow countryman. Regardless of Religion or ethnicity.

Patriotism increases work ethic- Patriotism is what makes us strive for our nation. It inspires us to work harder, so future generations can inherit our country better then we left it. It is this ambition which keeps countries from failing.

These are just my opening arguments. More will be surely added as the ball begins rolling. Thank you Comrade Silly Otter for accepting, and good luck to you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

Comrade_Silly_Otter

Con

Sorry for the delay, I was playing to much video games.

Yes, I was thinking about Nationalism gone wrong. Since it has plenty of times in the Past.

Nationalism can hold some people together and tear people apart. People should worry about their people more then the area they got born into by chance. People should care about Earth as a collective group, not a small piece of it. Every place on Earth is just a puzzle piece to the finished project, Earth.

In my eyes Nationalism keeps people from banding together and accepting the fact that we are all Human, and our country should be Earth. The entire puzzle, not little pieces scattered hear and there.

If it is Universal, or for our entire race. Sure the Nationalism is fine. But if it is for a Nation, or a ethnic group, then in my eyes it is just an obstacle towards the path of completing the puzzle.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
Jifpop09

Pro

Nationalism can hold some people together and tear people apart. People should worry about their people more then the area they got born into by chance. People should care about Earth as a collective group, not a small piece of it. Every place on Earth is just a puzzle piece to the finished project, Earth.

Nationalism is a love for your nation in people. In no way are we forbidden to love the earth.

In my eyes Nationalism keeps people from banding together and accepting the fact that we are all Human, and our country should be Earth. The entire puzzle, not little pieces scattered hear and there.

We are all human, but we have developed vastly different cultures from the first days of existence. Is there anything wrong with showing some pride for your culture and heritage, and wanting to make it better for the next generation? Humans will always be divided, but through nationalism, we break cultural ties and replace them with national ones.


Nationalism is a good thing. It means you are proud of your country and want to make it better. I do not understand my opponents argument that nationalism should apply to humans in general. Why cant I love my humanity and my nation? I am not subjected to only one. Thank you for debating comrade silly otter.

http://kingspell1.hubpages.com...
Comrade_Silly_Otter

Con

This brings to mind the topic of a World Government/ Collective .

Nationalism depends on where you were born. It is like rooting for a Sports Team, you support your local team. If you look at the wide image, it is all so small. It is ok to say yay once in a while, but it is never ok to kill,oppress, etc for it. A weird way to put it.

Who committed the Rwandan genocide? Hutu Nationalists. There are many more examples.

Making a country better? Hard to do that in a Capitalistic system where all the wealth you produce ends up in the pockets of the rich.

I never said you can't praise your ' Team ' or humanity. but sometimes we have to realize Co-Operation will take us much farther. Sports are silly.

I never said you can love humanity and your country. Since I do not control what you do.

I have no stable opinion on Nationalism, sometimes it is a disease, sometimes it is ok.
But it still keeps people apart, considering we focus on one team, instead of on all teams.

" Nationalism is an infantile disease. The Measles of Mankind. " - Albert Einstein
"All of nationalism can be understood as a kind of collective narcissism. " - Geoff Mulgan
"Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception." - George Orwell

http://www.brainyquote.com...
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Jifpop09 2 years ago
Jifpop09
Seeginomikata - Brainy quotes is a reputable source?
Posted by Jifpop09 2 years ago
Jifpop09
Difference between ethnocentrism and nationalism comrade. The Hutu were a ethnicity.
Posted by LAZARUS77 2 years ago
LAZARUS77
There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories. Man is but an Allah-fearing believer or an unfortunate sinner. All people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created out of dust." - Prophet Muhhamed s a w
Posted by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
Not sure what to think of this resolution. I suppose it would depend on the situation, as to whether or not nationalism is a good or bad thing.
Posted by Tophatdoc 2 years ago
Tophatdoc
No problem
Posted by Jifpop09 2 years ago
Jifpop09
Thanks!
Posted by Tophatdoc 2 years ago
Tophatdoc
@Jifpop, go to edit the debate. The category of opponent should be at the top.Type his/her name in if your interested in challenging a particular person.
Posted by Kc1999 2 years ago
Kc1999
Go Pro!
Posted by Jifpop09 2 years ago
Jifpop09
I already coordinated with someone. You sound like a good debater, but this has already been arranged.
Posted by Tommy.leadbetter 2 years ago
Tommy.leadbetter
it depends how you define 'good'. Its good to feel affiliated too your fellows, but in a divided world perhaps 'patriotism' also facilitates division. I mean an attitude of love and loyalty towards a select group of people based of their nationality, precipitates a lesser feeling toward everybody else. Therefore the idea of comradeship and loyalty, is only good when it is applied to all people. Indeed any other kind of 'love' or 'loyalty,' more often than not, facilitates violence and trouble. For instance Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jon and Mussolini all invoked extreme nationalism and patriotism. I may even argue that sometimes the more patriotic countries are the most troublesome.

Also if we look at history, societies have generally become less patriotic. This is a sweeping statement but, typically, I would argue that people have become more their own masters and less 'loyal' to the country as a whole. This could be seen as a decrease in patriotism. Also I would argue that societies are 'better' now, and this has happened alongside a reduction in patriotism.

does this sound like a stance you could argue with ? please message me
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
Jifpop09Comrade_Silly_OtterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Neither side has really given me a compelling reason to vote for them. The benefits of nationalism Pro provides in binding people together aren't really impacted, and his benefits from patriotism (which is a separate issue, something that's never argued) are loosely linked and little warranted. Con's argument is ill-warranted as well, with little to no argumentation as to why nationalism causes the harms he purports. He outright admits that not all nationalist societies fit his arguments, so I'm not sure where the link is. All I have are three examples of nationalism purportedly gone wrong, as opposed to all sorts of other possible problems that caused them. It's because Con's arguments are so erratic that I vote Pro, who, while providing solely weak arguments in support, provides the only ones that are "certain" by the end of the debate.
Vote Placed by Actionsspeak 2 years ago
Actionsspeak
Jifpop09Comrade_Silly_OtterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con was more convincing
Vote Placed by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
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Reasons for voting decision: An interesting debate, for sure. Overall, I think both sides argued at relatively the same level for their sides. Some statistical references, in-depth case scenarios or an argument made in conjunction with scholarly work, probably would have tipped the arguments either way. Pro gets sources for referencing his work, largely because Con used 'BrainyQuotes' to essentially argue from authority.
Vote Placed by janetsanders733 2 years ago
janetsanders733
Jifpop09Comrade_Silly_OtterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Nationalism increases work ethic, patriotism, and builds relationships with a country in order for it to operate. Good job to both debaters!
Vote Placed by Seeginomikata 2 years ago
Seeginomikata
Jifpop09Comrade_Silly_OtterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con arguments were more convincing and were backed up by solid logic and reputable sources. Pro was unable to defuse the main logic of con points.
Vote Placed by donald.keller 2 years ago
donald.keller
Jifpop09Comrade_Silly_OtterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I Felt Con could have won if he hit harder on the argument of it "not always" being good. Pro made a strong defense when bring up that human's are always divided. Conduct and Spelling were even.