The Instigator
Autistic_Spider
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Natural Selection vs. ET Genetic Engineering: Which caused Homo Sapiens' origin?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/25/2017 Category: Science
Updated: 3 weeks ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 395 times Debate No: 106117
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (34)
Votes (1)

 

Autistic_Spider

Con

I am pro-ET(Extra Terrestrial) Genetic Engineering and against present consensus because...

The archeological record is pretty clear that from an ecological perspective for well over 3 million years hominids who originated from Natural Selection functioned within their environments very similar to the rest of the creatures. That is, through their behavior habits adopted to perpetuate their own survival they provided important services for their inhabited ecosystems which served to enrich their biotas and the processes of Natural Selection in their habitats. Perhaps this enrichment is one of the fundamental purposes/goals for Natural Selection existing to begin with and perhaps it is the greatest determinant for distinguishing if Natural Selection is reponsonsible for a species' origin.

Environmental degradation and exploitation in the trajectory of collapse is a phenomenon that is unique to modern humans among the hominids. Modern humans were the first hominid to begin creating ecological debt (leeching more eco-value than they contributed) in their habitats, the first to replace natural selection with selective breeding and other artificial selection as earth's dominant source for new species and for the first time in the hominid tool-making record modern humans developed tools that were specifically efficient for slaughtering their own kinds. The values that drive human survival are largely imaginary (economics, politics, religion, etc.) and human survival based on these fictions is dependent on the use of these new types of tools (relentless violence and threats of violence). AMH emerges from the very bottom of Africa and spreads through the continents raping, murdering and enslaving other hominids and drastically altering ecosystems in their wake; like an epidemic strategically released by an imperialist regime hellbent on world domination, anatomically modern humans exploded onto the scene.

At the time of Homo Sapiens emergence there was a variety of hominid species occupying various habitats who had been sustainably existing for considerable amounts of time: perhaps they sometimes coexisted together though they probably held niche positions in their differing habitats most of that time. It wasn't until modern humans encountered them that their then stable populations declined and more-often-than-not rapidly collapsed. Homo Sapiens absorbed what they wanted (traits acquired most likely through rape not unlike what transpired in the Americas during the settler colonialism period) and then utterly destroyed the rest with intentional natural resource destruction and brutality (not unlike what transpired in the Americas during the settler colonialism period).

When one compares the patterns of dominance established by genetically modified organisms in the habitats they are placed in to the patterns pertaining to how Homo Sapiens came to be the last surviving of the hominids very eerie similarities stand out. Gm mosquitos in Florida, upon release, quickly mobilized to make themselves the only species in their habitat. By quickly populating and then slaughtering its own kind, it immediately went to work establishing dominance. Gm salmon when released in the Pacifc Northwest went straight to contaminating the breeding grounds of other species of salmon and to killing off its competition: other species of its own kind. Gm corn contaminates fields up to 500 miles from where it is planted and without being controlled will very rapidly replace all other species of corn within its reach and let's not forget that all 3 of these leech more eco-value than they contribute.

So then, based on the ecological effects of GM products being released into the environment and the expected/observable ramifications for biodiversity, one must hypothesize that if a GM hominid were released 200,000 years ago in the southern tip of Africa that Homo Sapiens' ecological history would be the expected result; human ecological functioning (presently and in the archeological record) much greater resembles that of genetically modified organisms rather than that of species originating through Natural Selection.

*citation upon request
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro


“ I am pro-ET(Extra Terrestrial) Genetic Engineering and against present consensus because...”



Then you are incorrect on both counts. The First Problem of hypothecations is it requires NO evidence. For reasons beyong comprehension … that one “thinks it” appears to be enough to thrust it to the fro.



This is fine if one desires to daydream their lives away, it is however a total waste of one’s energy. The Second Problem is words! To many muck up the water, making comprehension less forthcoming as more is used! One frequently (as we say rabbits) jumps from subject to subject! This can be alleviated by less word usage! And more evidence! Less opinion more fact usage! Example .. the entire evolutionary discussion is opinion ONLY, the entire debate begins and ends in sciences FAILURE to create and prove the Origin of Life theory! Nothing created to crawl out of any ooze anywhere! FACT!



The Problems are three not two.



  1. The Origin of Life remains completely unknown and unproven! PERIOD!

  2. The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis is dead in the water for the exact SAME reason as natural Selection.

  3. The God Factor!



These are the problems, we shall go through them using direct data if possible, few words of elaboration. (To increase understanding and limit Rabbiting!)



Problem 1 Natural Selection … utterly FALSE- Data/Evidence. NO DATA exists that proves this hypothesis and Theory at all. Problem, Scientists only assume Origin of Life. They cannot prove it! They have however proved it False! How? Unable to create a Living creature that successfully crosses or has crossed from Microscopic to the Reality World! It simply does not exist ( from Darwin to the present era!) That is a Fact!



Evidence required proving this fact false? Show the experiment or scientist who created in laboratory or other setting a REAL (not microscopic) Creature that is alive and reproducing as Human and animal life produce … infant to adult etc…



Problem 2 Extraterrestrial Placement. False, same problem implied, must show creation of Life to begin hypothesis?


Expansion: ET’s demonstrate humanoid appearance in every case, therefore also must have formed in like manner. Since NO organism created by humanity CAN become Reality (destined to remain microscopic throughout eternity). The exact SAME problem exists with ET!



Problem 3 The God factor: Only viable answer to all three hypothesis and theories! Evidence: Biblical narratives long since proven historic in nature by varied Scholars, not a work of Fiction and proven 100% accurate and Real by those who have researched thoroughly the Holy Bible!



Evidence: God created Man, as adult, created all creatures as adult, created all foliage as adult … This adequately explains the Origin hypothesis in completeness.



  1. It allows for the beginning of procreation from 2 adult male/female creatures by way of egg … the ONLY KNOWN way to procreate known to modern man!

  2. Answers the question of Plant and animal species and their procreations through amazingly the SAME and only procreation process (egg)

  3. Demonstrates with least amount of questions the Actual Origin of Life on Earth!

  4. Explains why ET are also humanoid (two arms, two legs, Head, Trunk (or torso) same creator.

  5. Explains how they arrived as well, with the least questions!


Please use facts, not opinions … opinions will only leave the same gaping holes as exist today.



Informational data: I have studied, do study and am actively participating in the God Fact. There is no doubt as to Gods reality. I know it, because I have looked, proved and actually see and met God. Believe what you wish, but know that you will be going on hypothesis only while I and I alone, between you and I HAVE all the facts, while you? Opinions, nothing more! Conclusion: your explanations will continue to leave gaping holes ... none of mine will.



Use facts please. I am.


Debate Round No. 1
Autistic_Spider

Con

"This is fine if one wishes to daydream their life away"... 'God did it'.

Ok, keep dreaming.

"The other problem is words. Too many muck up the water" (which is why i'm using a bunch of them to hijack your science discussion and steer it into religious wingnuttery)

Posting a challenge to my argument that is neither pertinent nor relevant to the opening topic using a bunch of nonsense strung together violates the basic rules of debate and renders your wingnut soapbox episode moot in this discussion. It also demonstrates your hypocrisy for the second time by the start of your first actual paragraph. I'm new to this site so i'm unaware of the process required to remove your response so I can open the discussion back up for someone who wants to argue from a RELEVANT position.

Also, this topic is not "evolution vs god did it", though i'm sure you frequently troll science forums looking to start religious debates and to steer discourse away from their subjects, that activity is not acceptable for my discussion. The difference between natural selection and artificial selection for the 'creation' of new species is well documented. Maybe if you spent more time reading academic and science journals rather than cherry picking from your book of fairy tales to condemn your neighbors, you'd be able to form a coherent argument that pertains to this current topic. Corn seems like it would be a product of natural selection considering the process that changed it from a grass with very little food value into what it is today took a substantial amount of time, however, this change has been shown to have been brought about by many generations of humans deciding which specimens deserve to live and breed and which ones don't (based on traits that humans deemed desirable) over the course of many many more generations of maize. This is known as direct artificial selection whereas the natural production of large deer with sprawling racks has been shown to be drastically decreased due to 'indirect artificial selection': as in the natural consequence of generations of humans hunting for trophies over many more generations of deer.

Natural Selection is a real and observable phenomenon which has been observed and documented through the study of lifeforms that reproduce rapidly and have generally short lifespans. Also, this is not a debate about the validity of Natural Selection (a process already well established as real and observable) and i don't appreciate you hijacking my topic to attempt to turn it into such. Close your book of fairy tales and open a science journal sometime, you might ACTUALLY learn something if you do. Also, Natural Selection is 1 process by which new species are known to come into existence. It is a process pertinent to the origin of species and not pertinent to the origin of life itself (that we know of). Again, your argument is moot because it is irrelevant wingnuttery at best .

"I have looked, proved and actually see and met god"

Perhaps this is the most obvious indication that you are not qualified to have a discussion about anything relative to reality.

And for the record, 'god did it' can be construed to mean that you support the ET Genetic Engineering position of this debate which by default invalidates your "challenge" to my position.

PS. "infallible" (as well as "100% accurate") does not equal "100's of contradictions" anywhere on the planet except in your silly religion. Please vacate the science category, wingnut.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro


Blah, Blah, Blah

are you going to dispute the evidence or just continue in opinion mode!

The problems remain! Your hypothesis, is DEAD in the water based on the Facts surrounding the hypothesis. Now produce evidence of Origin of Actual Life or the Problem remains for all arguements of ET, or Evolution as the reasons for Life on Earth.

You cannot claim ET done it, when you cannot show HOW LIFE ACTUALLY began.

I unlike you have looked at ALL scientific data available, from 1st to last. Not a Single scentists has proven by creation that they can produce an animal that crawls out of anything!

That means the primordial ooze hypothesis is DEAD. False nd unproven. Science has only provided, microscopic specimens, which do not and cannot cross over to the World of the Living breathing creatures of Earth!

UNtil you PROVE THAT, God did it is ALL you DO got! Prove otherwise or admit defeat! slug!

Debate Round No. 2
Autistic_Spider

Con

How life began is irrelevant to this discussion. This is not a topic on the origin of life itself it is on the origin of a specific species among a genus of already living species. Your setting ridiculous rules for invalidating a concept that has been well established through observation and documentation (Evolution; natural selection) is in poor taste and appears to be "troll" or 'harassment' behavior.

Please take your logical fallacies back to the religion category where they belong, mmmmkay?

http://www.darwinwasright.org...
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

ET Genetic Engineering:

Cannot be discussed until you answer the question of its makers. Your 2 demensional view is but fantasy. Go to the comic book section then. But you are in Reality, not comix.

Debate Topic: Which caused Homo Sapiens' origin?

They did not cause human origin, neither did natural selection as proven by Scientific experimentation which FAILED to produce a creature (living air breathing sentient) tat COULD HAVE CRAWLED out of ooze of any kind! To date this IS UNPROVEABLE. Science cannot resolve the problem of crossing its creations from the microscopic TO the World of Living species! PERIOD!

The only way left is not little green men who themselves were made precisely as all other species on earth, a head, limbs and torso, eating, sleeping walking, talking, producing babies growing them to adulthood etc....

To whine away! Or go to the comic book section as your questionhas nothing to DO with actal science but raher science fiction roger ramjet! How old are you? did you lie on your profile?
Autistic_Spider

31-year old you didn't reverse them? 13-year old?

Debate Round No. 3
Autistic_Spider

Con

Please stop skipping your appointments with your psychiatrist.
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Ladies and Gentlemen;
Clearly Autistic_Spider is not as want to discuss Real science as he thought? His complaint? He"s prejudiced against God!

So be it, I will enlighten you? From the FACTS of the case!

The statement is that God has nothing to do with this discussion? That of course is untrue. To suggest that ET placed us here, while convenient and certainly painless, is not the logical jump from a Failed evolution Theology. To skip right over God, is discrimination of epic proportions. (Capitalization used as emphasis because rich text does not work on my ipad)

So because SCIENCE failed to prove evolution by unsuccessful attempts to create an organism capable of crossing the microscopic barrier, which would have indeed PROVED evolution by showing that it in fact IS POSSIBLE for a microscopic organism to CRAWL out of primordial ooze. But .... NO, science was UNABLE to produce anything capable of jumping that chasm, so they dropped the subject entirely, and moved on to genes?

Clever but also pointless, because genes in existing creatures do not answer the Origin question and we MUST HAVE an Origin. There are No GENES that have crossed the microscopic to our world either? So WHERE DID WE COME FROM? Enter ... ET the exception to God!

Okay lets in investigate the possibilities , I know it"s wrong cause I know God, but okay I"m game.

The only problem Humanity has with the existence of God, and giving Him credit for the creation of all things is ... according to every complaint to date ... is that something cannot be created by nothing!

Reality: Extraterrestrial Beings who ..... have been photographed appearing out of thin air, and returning in like fashion! If a solid object can form from thin air and have within it Living beings, that should end the complaint of something not coming from nothing shouldn"t it!

Et"s have material witnesses some law enforcement who witness them moving through solid walls, with a human in tow!
So we see that Autistic_Spider is all to willing to accept these actions from and extraterrestrial but not from God! Prejudice is not a recognized retort! Refusal to accept data is not a recognized argument, nor an acceptable response. EVIDENCE is the only accepted response, if you have none then do not debate? If you have given evidence, not opinion in the past, copy and paste that debate?

Ahh but IF ET"s are acceptable? Is it not also possible that they planted us here? The answer? NO. Why not?
They are "not" our creators because Ladies and Gentlemen
they kidnap humans beings and animals for experimentation. If they created us there would be no need for this, any excuse for alternative reasons would simply have no basis in fact and would merely sidetrack the issue itself!

They are "not" our creators because they have been shown to run away when the name of God is spoken by an abductee. As sworn to by abductees themselves.

They are "not" our creators because they are killed in crashes and exist in sealed laboratories in government buildings.

1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried, and that He was raised the third day according to the Scriptures,

Can"t raise themselves back up from the dead? Nope, they ain"t God!

Luke 4:28
28 On hearing this, all the people in the synagogue were enraged. 29 They got up, drove Him out of the town, and led Him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw Him over the cliff. 30 But Jesus passed through the crowd and went on His way."

1 Corinthians 15:6
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.

John 20:19-20
19"That Sunday evening the disciples were meeting behind locked doors because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders. Suddenly, Jesus was standing there among them! "Peace be with you," he said. 20"As he spoke, he showed them the wounds in his hands and his side. They were filled with joy when they saw the Lord!

So lets look at the evidence: ET
can walk through walls, unless captured and his technology is taken from him.

They can be killed and they stay dead!

They can appear from nothing and depart in like manner!

They experiment on human beings and animals.

They make deals with the governments.

Now lets look at God?
Walks through walls
Appears to 500 people at the same time.
Is unable to be captured unless He allows it!
Cannot be killed, because when killed was RISEN after 3 Days and can never be killed again!
Kills the body and the Soul.
Is everywhere all the time.
Will judge humanity for their sins at the Great White Throne judgement.
Has .... and I cannot over emphasis this .... proven He is God by foretelling future events, from the beginning of Man to the ending of the Throne judgement and stands ready to PROVE it to anyone who seeks Him with honest heart!

Now THATS God! Not ET!

In conclusion: Autistic_Spider has nothing but opinions. He has no personal knowledge of the subject whatsoever. He relies on others opinions for his stances! Most of you do too I"m afraid!

But here"s the thing. I speak as a witness of the Risen Lord, I have been privy to all the truths of the scriptures up to the point of this writing. I see and am allowed to see God working in the lives of people every day. He is active in my Life and provides for His people at all times!

I give no opinions as I have none! God the creator of all things is fulfilling scripture day by day, and that will include the worst parts of the Bible. He requires we inform you in accordance with Ezekiel 3 that you ARE GOING TO DIE IN YOUR SIN. He offers you a way to restore yourself and be saved in Romans 10 verses 9-10.

He allows you free choice to decide on blessings or curses, life and death, and urges you to chose Life!

Deuteronomy 30:19
19This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The evidence is in, whether you believe it or not! I speak as a personal experience, not as one of opinion. As does all unbelievers, who have only the words of Men. Look around you and see the signs if the times. Were you to look in the scriptures you would see these things are ordered, and will be fulfilled. It ends very badly for you, and all who have not reconciled themselves too God.

Your ... Science? Is but a multitude of guesses, nothing more, nothing less!
Debate Round No. 4
Autistic_Spider

Con

Oh look what i just found... Enjoy ;)

http://cosmology.com...
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Autistic_Spider will never learn. While he goes on total lack of knowledge and must cling to the opinions of others. I go on personal knowledge, personal study, and no opinions.
But let him perish in ignorance!
Debate Round No. 5
34 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by KostasT.1526 2 weeks ago
KostasT.1526
@FollowerofChrist1955
The fact that we have not yet created artificially a human being means neither that we never will be able to, nor that single cells cannot evolve into the aforementioned. Would you mind elaborating on how would the latter be impossible, thus making God the only plausible option, as well as how exactly do you know that what you are preaching is correct? Or, is your thesis simply a logically fallacious "argument from ignorance"?
Posted by MRAAJ 2 weeks ago
MRAAJ
Well that response sums up your ignorance. Throughout all of your arguments you say the only way to connect with God is through Christianity, but at the same time you condemn people. Religion wouldn't be so influential without corruption n politics

https://www.focusonthefamily.ca....

That link there highlights said point, Christianity much like other belief started off as a fringe society until it gained political backing.

Secondly you claim to be a man of God, so your automatically think you're better than others, more hypocritical ish from you, for it is a sin to be proud,boastful etc.

ps you come off as a bit of a sadist, the amount of times you thrive of condemning people to hell. Like I said before, anyone can quote scripture, it's what they do with it that makes them authentic...

ie thou must be a Phoney, because if you really met God, you'd be actively engaged in the community, being charitable. NO way would you be sitting behind a laptop jacking off everytime someone proves you wrong, like a true sadist that you are.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 2 weeks ago
FollowerofChrist1955
OH SNAP,
Hehehe

Why is it you people aren"t smart enough to realize your merely talking about ...... people?

Why do you instantly point your boney finger at the innocent? God! God doesn"t do any of the things YOU talk about ... people do ?

Do you real believe that people STOP being people when they get Right with God?

Heavens, nothing could be further from the Truth! Take your politicians, there are some who are honest, dedicated and perfect servants of their constituents..... then there"s those who have affirs, spend your dollars on hookers, parties and payoffs.

So you see? The only difference is in the person themselves. The NAME they go by, doesn"t identify them, only their ACTIONS count. There are countless people who CALL themselves christians, who are no more Christian or SAVED than YOU ARE!

What" pathetic is that your gonna let someone ELSES actions keep YOU from SAVING yourself! Okay, no problem.

But once your in Hell burning along with those you pointed your fingers at ...... really ..... what exactly WAS THE POINT ?
Posted by MRAAJ 2 weeks ago
MRAAJ
'However ... go to church, read your Bible, talk to God', and your donations will be nicely spent by the dodgy clergyman who frequents the nearest strip joint. yall hypocritical power driven looneys.
Posted by MRAAJ 2 weeks ago
MRAAJ
... via the Atlantic. com, that there is further proof that you follower' truly are a good for nothing scumbag warlord wannabe, punkass priest sucking, ape bashing, IDYAT.
Posted by MRAAJ 2 weeks ago
MRAAJ
Hypocrisy is the narcissist"s middle name. What they say and do when no one is watching is drastically different from what they say and do in the presence of others. Since they are all about maintaining their false persona they use projection to rid the unwanted traits in their character. But since they are the emotional equivalent of a five-year-old, they magically disown the parts of themselves that reflect negatively on their personas and accuse you of the exact things they"re guilty of doing. Did you ever notice how they will accuse the most generous person of being selfish or having a hidden agenda behind their generosity? The most honest person is accused of being a liar. Their faithful partner is accused of cheating? The narcissist"s projections are really confessions that reveal what the narcissist is guilty of and/ or believes about himself/herself.

In contrast, emotionally healthy people don"t use projection when they"re on the defensive.,...
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 2 weeks ago
FollowerofChrist1955
KostasT.1526
Sound evidence?
Then show us the creature created by any of evolutions experiments that exists in THIS world.
I mean , you DO KNOW your not microscopic right?

So show us that sound evidence in the form of a real in our world creature created from nothing .... then claim something crawling OUT OF PRIMORDIAL.

Don"t CLAIM it, but cannot PRODUCE ANYTHING that CAN Cross from microscope to Humanity! That proves the opposite don"t it? That NOTHING but YOUR imagination crawled out of the primordial ooze?

Are you honestly to ignorant to understand what science"s inability to relicate the crawling out of an organism from the ooze REALLY MEANS.

From Darwin to the present ONLY MICROSCOPIC EXISTS! If you cannot grasp that your never gonna grasp the complexity of God.

However ... go to church, read your Bible talk to God .... God WILL help you AND prove Himself to you. God never requires us to prove what only He can prove! I could show you the actual wrotten proofs all day long ... if your not willing to look ... its pointless and a waste of time.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 2 weeks ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Hehehe
Nice try fellas, but your going to BURN ALONE!
What you keep failing to understand is that TRUTH, whether you accept it or not, REMAINS truth!

I HAVE found, know and Follow God exclusively. While the only commonality in all of you?
1. Your All going to burn in Hell!
2. None of you has actually participated in YEARS of research and study fully involved in finding God. AKA with regard to Gods existence? Your all dumber than dirt! But LIE almost exclusively, PRETENDING like you know or have looked for God .... that"s the lying part!
3. Appear to CARE that you win as if your gaining something other than the agreement of the equally stupid!

While I
1. Am Heaven bound
2.I know God the Father, The Son AND The Holy Spirit Personally, have study them From 1980 to the present and will continue to till Christ comes. So mine IS FACT while your all opinion.
3. Have no need of accolades, praise, or acceptance, most especially from the stupid of the World!

Like a person who has HERAD of Hell, knows its a place of ETERNAL pain and Suffering, and isn"t intelligent ENOUGH to find out if it"s TRUE? (Homer comes to Mind)

Shall I name you that? homer? It suits you all? Hmmm I shall consider it. I mean .... honestly if your GOING to BE stupid ... may as well carry the LOGO eh?
Posted by Autistic_Spider 2 weeks ago
Autistic_Spider
Oh and how about giving an upvote so i'm not tied with this moron.
Posted by Autistic_Spider 2 weeks ago
Autistic_Spider
Kostas. I would much rather have been challenged by you than follower. Follower is full of belif and opinion and doesn't seem to know much of anything outside of those. :/
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by KostasT.1526 2 weeks ago
KostasT.1526
Autistic_SpiderFollowerofChrist1955Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro was completely off-topic. Whereas, by accepting, they were to argue for Natural Selection, they argued against the latter and their opponent's thesis, proposing an alternative, though irrelevant to the debate choice, hence giving the argument points to Con. Furthermore, Con also gains the sources points, for the only two authoritative sources used. I would like to point out that, this being a scientific debate, citations from the bible cannot be regarded as credible sources.