Negative consequences of religion
Debate Rounds (3)
Every time I ask an atheist why they believe religion is poison they always mention the middle east and the evil death cult known as Islam. Its common knowledge that Islam is an evil religion that has brought much harm to the world, but just because one religion is a barbaric ideology that does not mean all religions are.
What does Islam in the middle east have to do with Christianity in the western world?Speceus believes that religion only have negative consequences, that also means Christianity. If you go against Christianity you are going against Christians, therefore going against Christ and his teachings. What kind of terrible human goes against teachings of having to do with love? Only a dogmatic atheist would be against these teachings.
The only people that help people by acts of charity are Christians. The common atheist does not perform charity simply because they have no beliefs. Atheists are soulless, emotionally dead people that should be treated with extreme hostility. Atheists make the claim that Christians only help people due to us fearing Hell. Only if they knew anything about Christianity, they would realize that claim is simply not true. Christians help their fellow man because they want to be good people, they want to make God happy with them. God wants all of us to be kind to each other, thought we cannot do this where there are atheists.
I like comparing two famous people of the two groups. Mother Teresa is famous because she helped the poor. She is not the most known Christian, but she is at least well known.
Now by far the most famous person who represented atheism would be Christopher Hitchens. What did Christopher Hitchens ever do for humanity? He was a fat Marxist that wrote a few hate filled books, debated some people, died of cancer and now is praised as someone with extreme intellect. Again I ask, what did this man do?
The atheist vs theist debate is so unbelievably flawed that it is not even funny. An atheist can simply win a debate by saying "Where's your evidence for God?". There, done, you win. Hitchens used this to his advantage to be seen as someone intelligent.
Summary: Atheists are a group of bitchy teenagers on the internet that have wet dreams about sucking off Hitchens, they do not contribute to the world.
Look at it this way: both theists and atheist do good things, they cancel each other out. What you are left with are theists doing bad things because of their religion but atheists don't do that, they do bad things if they are bad people. Therefor religion brings us harm, because it is a reason to do bad things and atheism isn't.
You call islam an evil religion and that it has brought much harm to the world - haven't christianity done the same? And isn't it mean to talk like that about another religion when you ought to know that there are nice, good muslims too like there are nice, good christians? To say that islam is the one giving religion a bad reputation is just laughable. Please do a little research about the Inquisition, Battle of Belgrad, 15th century Poland, 16th and 17th century Ireland, the Crusades (1095-1291), Heretics, Witches, the 30 years' war, Gaspard de Coligny, try to find out how many Jews were killed by christians, the terror in Vietnam, the Rwanda Massacres and lets not forget that the church supported a catholic by the name Adolf Hitler in our recent history.
Look at history. So many people have died in the name of the God in your bible. And in the bible God killed or ordered the death of millions. But the immorality and violence on the bible is for another debate. I would just like you to realise that even thou Islam might seem like the most violent religion at the moment, they are not the most violent in history. By far, the most people who has been killed has been in the name of the God from the Bible.
Christians, and religious in general, have shown to be extremely discriminating about minorities. Homosexuals, transsexuals, other races and groups of people (the bible condones slavery), women (the bible condones rape and women rights have been violated when it comes to the discussion about abortion) and atheists etc. Clearly you have some insane ideas of what an atheist is and isn't, and they are all completely untrue. We are being called evil satan worshippers with no morals (the bible is extremely immoral) etc. which again is just not true, it's lies other theists tell you. Is it to hate us? Why do you hate us? We are just people. You seem to have a very low tolerance, but this isn't your world and there has to be room for everyone.
And let's not forget that it still does harm today, two examples would be the christian in the US who shot and killed a doctor working at an abortion clinic in the name of God, and the priests who rape young children who doesn't get punished but just moved around to other churches.
Then you go on to saying "The only people that help people by acts of charity are Christians. The common atheist does not perform charity simply because they have no beliefs." - now where exactly did that come from? I myself am a volunteer at a cat shelter, I donate blood and I help where I can. You don't need a religion to do good things, that's ridiculous! You do good things because you are a good person, and atheists doesn't need a reason or the fear of hell to be good. There are good theists, good atheists and there are bad theists and bad atheists, but you will never see an atheists do something bad "in the name of God".
"Atheists are soulless, emotionally dead people that should be treated with extreme hostility" you call yourself a good person and then you say this? This is just flat out mean, and in no way true! No, I don't believe anyone has a soul, cause I don't believe such thing exists. I think it's a thing someone made up to explain something they couldn't explain. Just like the greeks believed there was a God who had some horses which dragged the sun across the sky cause that was the only explanation they could com up with.
There are atheist who do good, who do chairity and who helped. And guess what, when atheist donate to a good cause, all the money goes to the charity. When someone donates to the church, a lot of it never leaves the church. That has been proven, we know it to be true so there is no reason in you denying it.
To name a few charity organisations run by atheists: Kiva Lending Team, Atheist Centre of India, Foundation Beyond Belief, EARTHWARD, Inc., Fellowship of Freethought, International Humanist and Ethical Union, Atheists Helping the Homeless, American Humanist Association, Atheist Relief Fund, Secular Center USA, The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Atheist Community of Austin etc.
Besides that I live in a country where people do a lot of charity work and raise money for good causes, and it's almost never any religious based organisation who does this kind of work. I think I have proven you wrong in that subject now, so please don't offend us with ignorant statement which are just flat out lies.
"Only if they knew anything about Christianity, they would realize that claim is simply not true." funny you write that, cause if you knew anything about the people who don't believe in myths you wouldn't have written half the stuff you've written, cause it's simply not true! Not even the horrible things you wrote about islam was true, they are not all terrible, violent people.
Christoffer Hitchens was an atheists, but he doesn't represent atheists. He doesn't speak for all of us, he spoke for himself and debated a topic and revealed theism. I don't agree with some of what he says, like I don't agree with some of what Richard Dawkins, Bill Mahler and the people from the atheist community says, cause there is no one to dictate what atheists should think and believe like theists have. You have books or priests or popes, authorities to tell you what to believe. Atheists have 100% freedom to think for themselves and make up their own minds. And we are not evil, that's just an ignorant, narrow-minded statement to make.
"Summary: Atheists are a group of bitchy teenagers on the internet that have wet dreams about sucking off Hitchens, they do not contribute to the world."
1. We are not all teenagers and I'm pretty sure there are a lot more teenagers who are theists than atheists.
2. We are not bitchy. Bitchy means malicious or spitefully critical, kinda like how you are in the argument above.
3. I'm pretty sure that we don't all find Hitchens attractive in that way, at least I don't and I have no interest in sucking anyones penis.
4. We actually do contribute a whole lot to the world, if you cared to do a little research. I believe I have already covered it above.
5. To make up all these extremely childish accusations which has not even the least bit of truthfulness to them is rather pathetic and I'm shocked. You generalise atheists and fail to understand that we are not a group of people like e.g. christians. We are just people who don't believe, and besides the fat that we don't believe myths that we have no reason to believe, we are no different than you and to think so shows that you know little about what you are talking about.
You haven't represented your religion very well. You have been mean and spiteful and your argument is filled with lies and misconceptions. You challenged me about a subject, but completely misunderstood my easier statement. Your childish accusations are just laughable and I advise you to double check your statement in your next argument and sort out the many untruthful things you say. You give christianity a bad reputation.
But to summarise: Christianity has brought so much suffering to the world and so many people have been killed in the name of God. You don't see atheists killing in the name of a God they don't believe in, therefor atheism doesn't bring anything bad to the world - bad people does. Religion gives people a reason to kill, it makes them think their horrible actions are justified. You might do charity work, but you don't need a religion to do good things.
And least of all - well can you prove your God? Cause I can prove pretty much everything I believe in, I have a reason to believe them. And even if you had proof and your God really did exist, I still wouldn't respect him or worship him cause he is an awful being - just read the bible! Killing millions, ordering millions to be killed, saying rape and slavery is ok, wiping out every life form on earth? And your bad guy, satan, only killed a few people - because God told him he could! So no, I can't respect that. I can live a perfectly good like being a good person without any belief, religion don't give me anything good. It's an excuse, it's fairytales and yes, many people believe them but that doesn't make it true. It just shows that people can be fooled and brainwashed, it's a mass delusion.
I would ask you to clean up your tone and restrain yourself to insult me and calling me a moron in your next argument, thank you.
Your third paragraph, you mention some of the "terrible" events in the name of God, that happened mostly in the middle ages. Does it occur to you that these events happened, I don't know, during the middle ages? The 30's years war was not 100% about religion. The Crusades were justified, without the Crusades Islam would have spread violently into Europe. Would you much prefer to live in an Islamic world than a Christian world? Christianity DID cause bad things in the Middle ages, but it does not anymore. Islam on the other hand, it still keeping the Middle East in the middle ages. People have and still do kill in the name of God, but atheism causes death not directly. Imagine an atheist dictator: "I don't really like this group of people, since I do not fear eternal damnation I'l just kill them. Death solves all problems, no man, no problem"
Oh for Pete's sake about the Hitler part. Seriously? Do your research, the Catholic Church viewed Hitler with fear and suspicion, they knew they could not do anything against the National Socialist state and therefore had to go along with the flow. What could the Catholic Church have done?
The Bible was not written by God, but it is heavily divinely inspired. People in the ancient world had different morals than what we have today, they had no problem with stoning, slavery, rape. Just because the Bible condones rape that does not mean we follow that. We accept the Old Testament and have it in our holy book, but live (at least try) by the New Testament.
You're seriously complaining about people who kill those who kill the unborn for a living? Although I do agree on your part about the priests.
Again, Christians help people not because they fear eternal torment, but rather want God to be happy with them. And that's great that you volunteer at cat shelters and donate blood, I'm just saying that the majority of atheists will not and cannot bother with charity.
Souls do not exist? Please sleep at a haunted house for a night, please. Also it may seem mean to say that atheists should be treated with extreme hostility, but they poison modern society and threaten the only good thing in the world which is Christianity. When the atheist problem becomes big enough, the amount of religious unrest will cause another world war. They are enemies of God therefore they must die. Unfortunately genocide and murder is illegal.
As I said, there are SOME atheist charities. The majority of charity is powered by Christian motivation.
Oh God. You seriously say Christianity is violent while Islam is not? I'm not going to even bother with that moronic claim.
"er mer geerd hashtaghumanist hastagfreethinker". "freethinker" "look at me guys I'm too smart for god lolol flying spaghetti monster why does all of Christendom hate me stahp persecuting me".
Why I hate atheists:
Hating on atheists is natural for any Christian. A GOOD Christian (a good Christian is Catholic) despises whoever promotes evil and danger to Christ's Church. Atheism is unfortunately growing at a rapid pace. Atheist poison is silently destroying the Church without violence, yet all the fanatical Christians are too busy hating on the Muslims. The reason for this is due to atheists labeling their religious views as "none". This implies to an uninformed Christian that they can be easily converted. An atheist can NEVER be converted unless they suffer a near death experience of some sort. Satan, the father of lies has a huge influence on modern society in the western world. The atheist is responsible for the filth in modern society. When I say filth I am referring to abortion, adult content, prostitution, women not dressing modestly, etc
*continuation from beliefs* My evidence for this claim is simple: Would a GOOD Christian perform or promote the killing of the unborn? Produce pornography and promote the poisoning of children's minds? Do prostitution as a profession? Dress like a prostitute? Of course a good Christian would never do any of these terrible acts. No body besides an atheist would produce this filth. Lack of faith and incompetent parenting also contribute to this as well. Atheist is a code word for anti-theist, and anti-theist is a code word for anti-Christian. If someone hates Christianity, they hate Christians, therefore they hate Christ and his teachings. What kind of vile human being goes against teachings of respect and love. Only the atheist would be against this. The atheist is a poisonous mushroom that should be eliminated. Christians in the modern world are extremely soft, too politically correct. Christians are afraid to stand up for their faith and fight evil, which is what God would want.
"The Crusades were justified, without the Crusades Islam would have spread violently into Europe. Would you much prefer to live in an Islamic world than a Christian world?" - If I had a choice I would pick neither. I would much rather live in a non-religious world, and you do know that the islamic world were once leading the way in medical science and discovered a whole lot, right? It doesn't matter which religion butchered, it's still a religion and I believe that if it had been the islamic world that would have taken over there would be much difference, cause the only thing that makes islam seem more violent today is because the majority of the believers live in a less "evolved" world and the majority of christians live in a more civilised world. But christians still kill, brainwash, discriminate and influence the law system negatively in countries like USA. So no, it's not justified, how can you bee ok with thousands upon thousands of people being murdered? Doesn't matter who did it, it's still horrible and wrong. And it's still because of religion
"Christianity DID cause bad things in the Middle ages, but it does not anymore" - yes, yes it does. I've been over this a lot of times now, but denying that christianity does bad things is just ridicules. Was it justified to support Hitler too? Was it justified to kill that doctor? Is it justified to make people want to kill themselves because they're different? Is it justified to manipulate the laws to fit your own personal religion better? Is it justified to hold back research? You can go look up the influence religion has yourself and do a little research before you next argument, but please don't dismiss the bad stuff, take the good AND the bad, and then think why religion was needed to do the good.
"People have and still do kill in the name of God, but atheism causes death not directly." - How does atheism cause death? We don't believe in anything, we don't have any reason to do bad things unless we are bad people. Atheism doesn't have any authority, no extended rules and laws, atheists are 100% responsible for their own actions. Atheism doesn't cause harm and death, bad people does, and both atheism and theism has bad people. But please do come with example of atheism being the cause of something horrible, the cause, not just a bad man who happened to be atheist.
Have you read Mein Kampf?
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2"
"Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5"
"What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8"
The quotes go on. Yes, the church did support him. They could have said no, they could have stood up and rejected Hitler and done good things, but they didn't. Instead they were a major force and support, enthusiastic and not by force. They could have fought back but instead they used the situation for their own benefit, if they were just cowards or greedy doesn't change what they did and what they did was not good. And even if the church didn't support him, he was still a christian and he believed it was God will and he was blessed. He might have had some sharp ideologies, but he was still using his religious beliefs as a justification for what he did, he thought God told him too and so did many of the religious people who took his orders.
Try comparing what Hitler did to the stories of the bible. If he lived around the time the bible were written it his stories could have been included in the many other stories of warfare in the name of God, where entire cities were slaughter and women were raped and people were taken as slaves. The similarities are strong, and the only difference really is that Hitler lived in a modern world with a more modern society and modern weapons and means.
"You're seriously complaining about people who kill those who kill the unborn for a living?" - Here comes biology 101. There is a timeframe where a woman can have an abortion. Within this timeframe, it is not a baby. The majority of abortions happen when it's nothing but and egg or a small cluster of cells. But in modern society we don't kill babies cause it never started living. Its brain hadn't developed, it never had the ability to feel or think and it never had a personality. It's not a baby, just the potential. And I think it's more immoral to put a child in the world who is unwanted or doesn't have any parents to care for it properly, we have too many children suffering as it is and terminating them before they become anything is more humane than letting them suffer. Per definition, you are not a mother before you have given birth to a child or you take care of a child (outside a womb), and not before you can say "that felt great, honey".
Now I do think it would be absolutely horrible for someone to kill an innocent baby, but it's not more or less horrible to kill a man with wife and children. Cause after all, he had a life, he was needed and loved by many and he contributed to society. And you know what? He didn't kill babies. It might be tempting to call it a baby, but it simply isn't. It's nothing but an egg. The baby doesn't exist yet.
"Again, Christians help people not because they fear eternal torment, but rather want God to be happy with them." - Isn't that the same thou? You want God to be happy with you. Why? Because if he isn't then you believe you go to hell, and you don't want that. You want God to be happy with you because if he isn't you will suffer. He has all the power in the universe, he is all mighty and all powerful and well, he is the biggest murderer in history if he exists - I think you would be stupid not to fear him, wouldn't you? You want him to be happy so you don't end up in hell = You fear going to hell.
"Please sleep at a haunted house for a night, please." - I've actually done that, I went to a summer camp where we slept in an old castle where the ghosts of the previous tenants where roaming the halls. We have castles like that everywhere. Stories of how the women killed their husband or were killed, and now they are coming back to revenge - you know, good old ghost stories. But guess what, it's only stories. It's imagination and when we get a little scared in a big, dark castle then our imagination takes over and suddenly there are evil creatures or lost souls everywhere in the darkness. But we all know it's just our imagination playing games with us, we all know it's just stories of the supernatural - not real.
" Also it may seem mean to say that atheists should be treated with extreme hostility, but they poison modern society and threaten the only good thing in the world which is Christianity. When the atheist problem becomes big enough, the amount of religious unrest will cause another world war. They are enemies of God therefore they must die. Unfortunately genocide and murder is illegal." - wow we must die? You say you are the only good thing in the world, really? And then you say we are evil and must die even thou WE aren't the ones with a long history of murderer and horrible, horrible things. I live in Denmark and here we are mostly atheists. And guess what - happiest country in the world! We have relatively good politics, especially compared to the US, we don't have a lot of crime and discrimination due to religion like you have over there, we are one of the most peaceful countries and one of the most educated.
"The majority of charity is powered by Christian motivation." - Yes, as I said, because the majority of the western world IS christian. How about you take it relative to each other, try saying "How many atheist charities are there for every 100.000 atheists and how many Christian charities are there for every 100.000 christian". Then it would be pretty much the same if not in favour of the atheists.
It's a fact that more people has died in the name of the biblical God than the islamic one.
"atheists labeling their religious views as "none"" - We don't HAVE a belief, it's the definition of the word, we don't belive in fairytales, we don't think "god" exists!
A GOOD Christian (a good Christian is Catholic) despises whoever promotes evil and danger to Christ's Church." insulting to other christians and atheists and no, we don't promote evil and danger, YOU do.
" "look at me guys I'm too smart for god lolol flying spaghetti monster why does all of Christendom hate me stahp persecuting me"" - yet another insulting and untrue stereotype, but you know you kinda prove the stereotype by being in idiot, right? You give up reason for the stereotype for atheists to be "The intellectuals.", and there is a reason why.
Tehpwnerer forfeited this round.
To summarise: Religion brings negative things to the world, atheism doesn't. However, they both bring good things. The good things cancel each other out and all you are left with are the negative things religion brings.
I do realise that this is, in the end, just about good and bad people, but religion makes bad act more acceptable or justified, religion is a reason to do bad as well as good.
No votes have been placed for this debate.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.