The Instigator
Pro (for)
3 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

New Education Systems

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/16/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,547 times Debate No: 38995
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)




In this debate, we will create a new education system and show that it is better than both the other person's system and our current system(you may also choose to simply defend our current system).
Outline of the debate:
1. Acceptance
2. Your plan(no rebuttals/counter arguements)
3. Counter arguments
4. Rebuttals(countering the counters) and conclusion


I accept all of Pro's conditions and will be creating my own educational system as the current one is excessively flawed. This is a subject that really interests me and I look forward to it as an educational opportunity as well as a debate.

Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1


New Education Plan
Part 1.
I.Restructure the education system.
a.Replace elementary, middle, and high school with Primary(1-6), secondary(7-9), and tertiary(10-12)
1.basic math
2.Reading and how to write
3.Scientific problem solving(not necessarily biology or chemistry, but a combination of it all to teach problem solving skills)
4.Basic Social Studies (teaches government, population, etc.)
1.Teaches math with the purpose of problem solving and analyzing
2.Teaches reading with the purpose of analysis. This will emphasize modern text and non fiction. The goal of this reading is to prepare for real life. It will also teach persuasive and expository writing extensively. Students will be expected to write at least one essay in English per week.
3.Teaches Biology and Human anatomy
4.Teaches history with the purpose of analysis. Will include multiple projects involving receiving a problem regarding government, economy, etc. and the student has to come up with a plan(somewhat to what we are doing with the debate) to solve the problem and they need to defend their plan.
5.Gives students a personality test that will put them in several electives over the years so that the student may find what specifically interests them for when they decide on pathways for the tertiary level.
1.Math will only be required for one year. Math will be statistics and problem solving.
2.English-Will be required all three years. One year will teach reading(primarily nonfiction and research but with some fiction thrown in), one year will teach writing(one semester persuasive and another expository), one year will teach speaking. These years can be taken in any order or a student can choose to take two or three in one year.
3.Science will be completely optional
4.History-Extensive studies into economics, government, US, and World history. Will include much problem solving and utilization of evidence. Students at this level will be expected to form opinions on certain topics(this will help encourage participation in government).
5.There will be many pathways for students to choose. These pathways will be taught at college level so that the students have the chance to get college credit for their pathways. Example
a.A student can choose a psychology pathway. There will be classes that involve behaviorism, sociology, psychological medicines, psychotherapy, etc. Some of these courses will require that other classes also be taken as a prerequisite but the majority will be mutually exclusive.
b.A student can choose a business pathway which will offer classes such as marketing, accounting, risk management, etc. Now, if a student chooses risk management, he can choose to take another class like entrepreneurial ventures his second year of tertiary school.
II.Part 2
a.Part one is the hard part, but part two is basically referring to additional options.
i.A student can choose to dual enroll through tertiary education
ii.A student can choose to skip his senior year and start college if his or her grades are good enough.
iii.A student can lump any classes together and take them in any order. In other words, a student can take three years of English in one year and save his year of math for his last year.
iv.A student can choose work based learning.
v.A student can choose to go to another school either entirely or for one or two periods if a class he wants to take is offered at another school that is not offered at his current school.
vi.A student can choose to switch schools if his school does not meet a certain education level(as determined by the state).
III.Part 3
a.This involves Extracurricular activities
i. Sports and clubs are only permitted if the student takes at least one advanced class and maintains A"s and B"s.
ii.If the student does not meet this criteria but still wants to participate, after school or weekend tutoring will be assigned and the student"s tutor can write a note stating that the student is putting up appropriate effort and should be allowed to participate. The principal or top academic counselor still gets final say in the matter though.
IV.Part 4
a.This is how schools will be examined
i.A state education supervisor will go to each school for a surprise visit four times per year.
1.All schools should meet a cleanliness requirement
2.All schools should meet a grade average requirement(as determined by the nation)
3.Student participants in after school activities will be examined to ensure adequate intelligence to participate
ii.If a school fails one of these, the schools administrators will be put on one year suspension and replaced
iii.If a school fails two of these, the school"s entire faculty will be fired and will be forced to reapply after a thorough examination of their teaching history

I'm pretty sure that is all.


I'm reading Pro's debate round and realizing how similar our ideas are in regards to studies... My system was based on three points:
1. Enabling students to apply what they learn to real life.
2. Encouraging independence in students.
3. Maximize time at school in order to learn efficiently.
Pro seem to have at least some of those premises and that probably affects the similarity in our propositions. I'll write out my idea and we'll see if there are enough differences to have a proper debate. If Pro feels that the ideas are too much alike, I will happily forfeit this debate. Some of Pro's ideas are really intriguing.... :D
Well, here goes nothing...

Education Plan
Part 1.
i. Structure the education system based on age.
A. Divide children into groups aged 4-6, 6-8, 8-12, 12-14, and 14-18
B. Each age group focuses on developing a specific attribute.
C. Each age group encompasses that specific attribute in addition to the one/s already learned.
D. The majority of studies listed should be taught in accordance with that specific attribute, although combining several or refreshing an older attribute is also not a problem.
I. Ages 4-6
Focus: creativity and a love for learning
1. At this age, similar to preschool, there is no set curriculum. Learning the alphabet, numbers, deductive skills, and sources for common objects and events (ex: how honey is produced, the different seasons, color variations, etc.) will be the goal in regards to curriculum.
2. Many projects and trips should be utilized for the learning experience at this age.
II. Ages 6-8
Focus: independence and responsibility
1. Basic math skills (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division)
2. Reading and writing
3. Basic social studies, history and geography
4. Deductive skills in a scientific setting. (Teacher will bring numerous, age appropriate experiments, whether involving fossils, electricity, plants, etc. and involve students in deductive thinking.)
III. Ages 8-12
Focus: individuality
1. Math skills (deductive reasoning, long division, multiplying larger numbers, percentages, decimals, etc.)
2. English (refining the writing process, communicating clearly, grammar, spelling, poetry, short stories, book reports, etc.)
3. Social studies, geography (each student will choose a specific country and/or culture and give a presentation on it in whichever way they feel suits their ideal mode of expression. This will be done at least once every semester.)
4. Basic biology
5. Other (explained below)
IV. Ages 12-14
Focus: ability to learn and think for themselves
1. Pre-algebra, Algebra, Geometry
2. English (creative writing, persuasive essays, broader coverage of poetry, vocabulary expansion, etc.)
3. History (students will be asked to recreate historic periods, bringing realism to ancient times)
4. Biology and Human Anatomy
5. Other (explained below)
6. Aptitude test to help students find subjects they are good at and are of most interest to them in the coming years.
V. Ages 14-18
Focus: culmination of all the above, manifesting into serious studies for life
1. At this point in learning, as long as a student received satisfactory grades in all their previous courses, no specific course is mandatory. However, if a student's grades are not satisfactory in math, for example, they will be required to take electives in math.
2. Schools will do their best to provide electives in as many subjects as possible. Subjects will be separated into general categories (for example, English, Math, Science, Languages, etc.) and each category will have several specific classes available (for example Science might offer chemistry, physics, biology, astronomy, etc.)
3. Students are not required to take all subjects in one general category, but rather can choose a multitude of studies that interest them.
Part 2 - explaining aspects of electives and 'other'.
I. Other
A. This is not a specific subject, but rather a wide array of less academic and more hands-on studies, including but not limited to baking, sewing, woodworking, gardening, and sports. These do not constitute electives because they are specifically for the younger groups.
B. These studies constitute one lesson everyday.
II. Electives
A. The electives account for college credit
B. The accumulation of electives at the end of school will help a student determine where their interests lie and what profession they wish to pursue.
C. Electives should include all forms of learning, whether academic or more technical.
Part 3 - Teachers' assessment
I. Every semester the teachers will be graded by their students to ensure that the instructors have optimum performance.
II. A teacher who fails an assessment will be reassigned to a different classroom and required to do additional studies themselves.
III. A teacher who fails three trimester's (one year) in a row of assessments will be fired.

I think this is it..... But it's late and I have a feeling there's more. Oh well.... :D

Sincerely looking forward to Pro's response.
Debate Round No. 2


Our ideas are incredibly similar. We will continue the debate with what is different(however slight those may be). Looks like these last two rounds will be short though.
Your concept of having different age groups focus on different traits is interesting. However, my plan emphasizes a focus on critical thinking and independent thinking through all age groups. Your plan involves breaking that down into three different parts. While both ideas have merits(mine being that the skill is overall improved throughout the steps of education, yours being that it breaks it down into the parts of critical and independent thinking and that develops) I believe that mine would be more effecient in that all skills are evenly and thouroughly developed. Your plan's flaw is that you did not consider that positive traits will be lost over several years. For example, the creativity and love of learning you teach in step one will gradually disappear throughout the rest of the child's education. This is the only flaw I see with this concept.
Futhermore, your plan involves covering poetry and creative writing. These skills do have merits but seem to contradict your view on career preparation. Most careers do not involve poetry or creative writing unless the student is an author(which is a very small percentage of the population). My plan involves persuasive and expository writing. Though this writing is not overly prominent, it is still more prominent and it also enhances a skill: persuasion and explanation(though these are not always written, the strategies learned for these two can transfer verbally unlike story telling).
Your view on higher level students involves making pretty much all classes optional. Some skills are taught in the classes you wish to make optional that should be known by all adults(such as government, writing, and math).

Overall, your plan emphasizes more creativity than mine does. My plan involves more specialization and real life work than your does. I admit my plan may not foster enough creativity, but I believe that it is ideal for setting people up to succeed in their adult lives.


First of all, thank you. Number one, for agreeing to continue the debate, and number two, for your ideas. I genuinely had no idea when starting this that our proposals would be so similar, yet though they are alike, I'm learning a lot from your ideas as well.

The reason I break down specific skills into different age groups has to do with the way the brain develops. For example, before the age of 6, a child will not be able to truly internalize what independence is - before that point they *must* rely on others. Also, the concept of responsibility is foreign to them.

I wrote, 'The majority of studies listed should be taught in accordance with that specific attribute, although combining several or refreshing an older attribute is also not a problem,' but do agree with you - those attributes, unless reinforced annually are likely to be forgotten. Having said that, perhaps it should be required to focus on the previous years' attributes as well.

Which brings me to another point.... (The one I seem to have forgotten.)
In addition to bringing out specific traits within the set curriculum, I believe scenarios should be crafted in order to bring out those traits. As examples, having a classroom pet to teach responsibility and requiring students (as part of students aged 12-14's curriculum) to teach themselves a subject that interests them.

As for poetry and creative writing, each allows for expression. One of my major issues with the school system today is that it is very *limiting*. They teach students to conform to conformity itself. Another focus of my system that I didn't mention (and I'm not sure why - this is important) is encouraging students to think outside the box - not to limit themselves, but as some anonymous guy once said, 'to shoot for something no one else can see - and hit it.' My belief is that when we have students whose major competition is themselves essentially - when they have a healthy self esteem, are highly motivated and capable of thinking for themselves - that is an atmosphere conducive not just to the betterment of education but to the betterment of society in general.

My point in making no classes mandatory after age 14, (unless someone is weak in a specific subject) was actually assuming that they had completed the necessary studies by that point. Thinking about it though, it may be possible that the required curriculum won't be completed by that time period, (in which case I would have to adjust that slightly.)

My criticism of your plan would be that it is too academically focused. Not everyone is academically inclined. It brings to mind how it used to work way back in the good old days. Some children would go to school and others would be apprenticed. While I feel that academics are important, that should not be the main focus of school. You make extracurricular activities dependent on high academic achievement. To me, it would seem that if a student isn't doing so well academically it may be because that's not their mode of learning. A favorite quote emphasizes what I'm trying to say.
'Everyone is a genius, but if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree it will live its life thinking it is stupid.' -Albert Einstein
Some people are better at some things and other people at other things. That's not to say one person is better than another. Nor is it to say that someone shouldn't try something they're not good at. But to hold everyone to an academic standard when that is not the only talent seems a little harsh, I guess.

That's it for now.

Just as a side point though, (and feel free to disagree with me on this) it seems that the 'correct' answer to this debate isn't necessarily one over the other, but rather a combination of both aspects. That's just me thinking aloud. By the way, I LOVE (with a capital L, O, V, and E) your idea for teaching history in secondary school. That's the kind of critical thinking we need!
Debate Round No. 3


As I went over my plan, I realized that my plan did not lack creativity. It lacked what most people imagine as creativity: art, music, poetry, creative writing, and it included creativity by way of critical thinking and planning.
I just wanted to say that.
You stated that my plan was too "academic". For the most part, I can agree. In my plan, I wanted to ensure that academics is prioritized over sports and other activities. For the most part, sports and other activities rarely positively affect academic performance. Furthermore, in the long term, academics will determine success, not one's ability to throw a ball. This is why I support the academic achievement for sports. I, like you, offered many different electives and pathways that can ensure that the fish swim and the monkeys climb. Really, I want to ensure that ALL people have the knowledge to get through life effectively and have the ability to think for themselves, but they have specific knowledge that they can utilize to become successful in life. Once they pass the classes that ensure this, they can graduate high school. No graduate HAS to be a mathematician and a historian, they just have to know how to do math and how to interpret history.
The point you made that I agree with the most is your idea that the current school system is teaching students to conform to society and conformity itself. Your plan involves specific focuses on individuality and mine involves focus on the formation of opinions. In my opinion, both plans effectively correct this problem.

I am typing this really late and I may be hard to understand so I apologize now. Thanks for the constructive criticism. I'm glad this turned into a discussion as opposed to a cold debate.


I'd just like to address one point and then wrap this up.

The point is on the subject of academics. You write, "Furthermore, in the long term, academics will determine success, not one's ability to throw a ball." Which is true in some respects. But my point was to even step outside of our conformity to academics. Or, rather, to include in the connotation of the word a more hands on, vocational aspect to studies. A professional chef is not necessarily inferior to a doctor, though I would concur that they both should be able to make themselves breakfast in the morning and put a band aid on a scrape. We should know the basics of certain subjects but beyond that, much of what we learn in the current school system never actually applies to real life. I would like academics to include studies that people will immerse themselves in later in life, whether sewing, agriculture, or mechanics, regardless of whether that is considered 'inferior' to the more widely known subjects.

Both plans do take measures in correcting the problem of conformity and I think that both plans could merit by jointing certain aspects together. Either way, it helped me to define my plan better and think of possible flaws within it.

I'd like to conclude by thanking you for this discussion and I have to say it is nice that two people pitted against each other in a debate came to terms with the similarities and continued in a civil, just manner. You could have asked me to forfeit the debate as there was a lot we agreed on, but you didn't. And the discussion continued to be productive despite that. So truly, thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Quatermass 3 years ago
MoralityProfessor, thanks for your reply. I'll attempt to expand on .2 for you.

When teaching children how humans relate to each other it covers a variety of subjects. Firstly that all human beings have the same basic needs, (ie: clean water, clean air, arable land, relevant education, etc) and that the Earth is the common heritage of all people. Secondly that they owe their way of life to many different kinds of people from all around the world from many different backgrounds and that this is the main reason why patriotism doesn't work, because Americans (in particular) owe their way of life to everyone else around the world.

Secondly we teach them that all people are the sum of their experiences, and that these experiences are always determined by the environment. We each them that there are no good or bad people in the world, but that everyone seems to function normally according to their background and environment (society, culture, subculture). If the environment is distorted or twisted in some way, (IE: Nazi Germany) then those people will reflect that environment. But from where they're coming from their behaviour is normal. If you were raised in Nazi Germany and that was your only experience, you'd be a Nazi. If you were raised to know only cannibalism in your amazonian tribe, you'd be a cannibal. And those modes of behaviour would seem very normal and very right if you had no other experiences to inform you otherwise.

In this way we can teach kids to ignore prejudice and work together to solve starvation, hunger, poverty and create an education system where all people can work to enhancing the lives of everyone else, creating a better global society for all people.
Posted by MoralityProfessor 3 years ago
Thank you for your comments! Always good to get insight into others thoughts and experiences, thereby creating an expansion of our own.
Those are very broad topics, and I think you'd have to be more specific. I'm not really sure what you mean by 3&4 - it seems you want to teach preschoolers psychology at first glance.
I *immensely* agree with number 1. I honestly think preschools (and all schools, for that matter) should be located somewhere on a farm. There are so many great virtues and lessons to be learned from a natural lifestyle including patience, responsibility, an appreciation for everything (when you realize how much effort goes into every single product) , concern for others, etc.
Would you care to expand on number 2?
I'm not sure 5 is so important though. Social concern is an issue, but I think that is something that develops itself. To set up a standard of how concerned we must be, socially, is counterintuitive in my opinion.
Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing back from you. Thanks again for your comments!
Posted by Quatermass 3 years ago
I would like to see an education that teaches infant children the following:

1) how they relate to nature
2) how they relate to each other
3) how people come to be the way they are
4) why people do the things that they do
5) how to live life in relation to social concern
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by TheAntidoter 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Cleanliness was not pointed out by con.