The Instigator
logicalrobot
Pro (for)
Tied
12 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Con (against)
Tied
12 Points

New Member debate: Any topic

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/11/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,345 times Debate No: 25102
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (6)

 

logicalrobot

Pro

Hello. I am new to DDO and would like to debate another new member on any topic. Four rounds, first for acceptance and picking the topic. I look forward to an interesting debate.
16kadams

Con

Our last debate ended in concession. So lets try again.

Resolution: Conceal carry laws reduce violent crime

I am PRO.

Oh... 4,000 characters... lets make this work. Lets just cut out half of my former argument.


Law Passed Murder fell 7.7%, Rape fell 5.3%, Aggravated assault by 7.01%, robbery 2.2%, Burglary .5%, Larceny 3.3%, Auto 7.1%. [1] (1977-1997 data)

Other data, his 1999 data, shows a better outcome of a 10% decrease in murder, and the other categories too had a larger decrease in crime, hence CCW in hi later data was slightly revised in new data sets. Lotts early data can be found in #2.

Now lets look at PA. They had a drop in murder of about 26%, and overall violent crime drop of 5.3%. Now, one of the criticisms of this basic trend is just because the drop happened after the law, we can also look at other variables, the most common one is arrest rates. Lott makes many dummy variables, tables, and to the best of his ability shows CCW laws where a significant portion of the decrease. [1] Another reasons he concludes the drop is because when there is a spike in people who have permits there is a decrease in violent crimes.

To get more local statistics, lets look at his findings in some states. In Oregon, for example, murder dropped 37% after the law was passed. Now, there are other variables he accounted for in the third addition making his data superior to the first. He did other dummy data sets, and still finds CCW had a large portion of the deterrence an drop in crimes. [1]

Now, it is logical to assume they actually decrease crime due to my deterrent argument above. The CATO study also finds similar reasons why it would actually decrease crime. They also fund similar accounts of data, and they conclude the Florida CCW law was positive and the other states that passed these laws also had a positive showing.

Another question that must be answered: would it increase or decrease mass public crimes? Now, as this is a valid fear, see the recent shootings in Chicago I believe, or Virginia tech. But to define shootings/killings, we must look into what is defined by. It is defined as a public shooting in a place where 2 or more people are killed or injured. Now based n his data in figure 5.1, he found the likelihood of a state to have this happen was about 60%, a little more. After the conceal carry law was passed, data and trends suggests the state now has only a 1% chance of these types of shootings in areas where conceal carry holders are allowed. [1] I may have misphrased the argument here: the likelihood of deaths or injuries when the crime occurs. Essentially saying conceal carry laws make it harder for the psycho to kill when in the area where a conceal carry permit holder resides.

Now, another question would be does it lower crime committed with guns? This argument used is common amongst people trying to go against conceal carry laws. But this is not the case. In the new 2010 edition of source 1, it finds a 9% decrease in murders with guns after non-discretionary laws are passed. Murders with non handguns dropped at a similar rate, 8.9%.

"If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravate assaults would have been avoided yearly." [1] [2] (1997 study)



Copy and pasted form a former debate: http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 1
logicalrobot

Pro

My opponent and I have agreed to redo this debate over the weekend. So I ask that it be a tie.
Debate Round No. 2
logicalrobot

Pro

Tie (but I commend my opponent for having good opening arguments
Debate Round No. 3
16kadams

Con

Oh I thought it was three rounds XD, predicted an and too early.

If you don't tie.... YOU DIE :)
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by logicalrobot 5 years ago
logicalrobot
Any topic, any side (just reword the debate to whatever side you want to take).
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
And the topic is you are pro, and the other is con, or can we say "im pro".
Posted by YYW 5 years ago
YYW
Soooo pick a topic... anything... and we'll have a go. Challenge me soon.
Posted by logicalrobot 5 years ago
logicalrobot
I have decided to open up the debate to anyone now.
Posted by YYW 5 years ago
YYW
Here's an idea. You pick any topic you like. Challenge me. We'll debate it, and then we can repeat the process. Not noob sniping, just giving you a chance to debate here. This current post doesn't seem to be an effective endeavor.
Posted by logicalrobot 5 years ago
logicalrobot
If you are new (0-2 debates) you can pick any topic you want. If not then message me a topic and I will decide whether to change the debate criteria.
Posted by yuiru 5 years ago
yuiru
Can't accept ;?
Posted by Ultra 5 years ago
Ultra
I am new to this site and I am considering accepting. Are there any guidelines as to what topic I am allowed to chose? Are there any specific areas that are off limits?
Posted by logicalrobot 5 years ago
logicalrobot
It was meant for other new debaters, but if no one accepts and you have a compelling topic, I might be willing to debate you for valuable learning experience
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
darn, it won't let me accept. You're not nice.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
logicalrobot16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: Allowing tie to happen. Can either one of you PM me the new debate when it is done? Thank you
Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
logicalrobot16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: b
Vote Placed by TheOrator 5 years ago
TheOrator
logicalrobot16kadamsTied
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Total points awarded:22 
Reasons for voting decision: My charity for the year
Vote Placed by Magicr 5 years ago
Magicr
logicalrobot16kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Why not?
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 5 years ago
Ron-Paul
logicalrobot16kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I choose not to die. AMEND 1: Maybe if I help this debate become a tie, I will get special priviledges.
Vote Placed by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
logicalrobot16kadamsTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I wish to die a slow and brutal death.