New Pokemon Fighters in Smash Bros
Debate Rounds (4)
1. You may only choose a Pokemon that has not yet been playable in Smash Bros (Mewtwo is in Melee and SSB4, Greninja is in SSB4, Ivysaur is in Brawl, etc.)
2. You must have 4 special moves, and a Final Smash for your chosen Pokemon.
3. No trolling, kritiks, semantics, etc. Doing so will result in at least a conduct loss.
4. You must explain why your choice is good, not just say "I like this Pokemon", since this is a debate after all!
5. No forfeiting a round, this counts as a concession to the opposing side.
1. When voting, you must have a sufficient RFD.
2. This includes which Moves you thought were good, which reasoning you liked and why, and whether everyone followed the rules.
Round 1: Acceptance, as well as saying which Pokemon you choose.
Round 2: We will say our Pokemon's move sets and Final Smash, as well as why that Pokemon should be in Smash Bros.
Round 3: Pro and Con will attempt to find any flaws with the opposing side's argument.
Round 4: Final rebuttals and defense.
My Pokemon is Sceptile. When my opponent accepts the debate, he/she will choose their own Pokemon, and post their argument Round 2. Good luck, and let's do this!
I accept this debate and look forward to a fun discussion that combines 2 of my favorite games.
I thank Shake7Bake for accepting. Let's get into my argument.
Neutral B; Leech Seed: Sceptile shoots seeds in front of himself, sprouting a flower on the opponent's head, damaging him for a total of 17%. [Can be customized into Bullet Seed, which focuses on hitting multiple times, or to create a trap]
Side B; Giga Drain: Sceptile shoots vines a few feet away, draining 22% damage, and recovering 16% damage to Sceptile. [Can be cutomized to go closer to Sceptile, or to deal more damage, but recovering less]
Down B; Detect: This is a counter attack. If Sceptile gets hit when doing this attack, the attacker will be hit with a toxic gas, dealing 26%, then sending them flying a fair distance. [Can be customized to put opponents to sleep, or for raw attack power with a shorter counter time]
Up B; Vine Whip: Sceptile launches a vine diagonally upward, and homes in on solid platforms, such as the stage. This can damage opponents for 3%, but is mainly a recovery move. [Can be customized fordealing damage with a shorter reach, or a leap with the vine.]
Mega Evolution: Sceptile mega evolves, and raises his attack and launch power by 1.5x, for 30 seconds.
Sceptile is a pokemon in Pokken Tournament, another fighting game. He's also the one I chose in Pokken, so I share a bond with him. As for attacks, we could get inspiration from Pokken Tournament. I had inpritation from there, after all.
Also, when I was thinking about a new Pokemon for Smash bros, the first one that came to my mind was Sceptile.
With that, I think Sceptile is a great candidate for the next Smash Bros game. I wonder what my opponent will say about Absol. And I wish him luck, and I welcome him to the site.
I would like to point out before submitting that this pokemon is not my favorite pokemon or even in my top ten for that matter. I just genuinely believe that this pokemon would make a great character in Super Smash Bros.
Also Sceptile is actually my favorite pokemon so this will be an interesting debate for me.
The pokemon is Absol.
Neutral B: A medium ranged slash attack that will deal 13% but leaves Absol exposed for 0.7 seconds.
Side B: Absol would have a night slash attack that would give him a lunge towards the enemy. This could do a possible 22% depending on how far away Absol is from the opponent. The further away Absol is from the enemy before he strikes, the more percentage.
Up B: Absol would have an up slash that would allow it to get back on the map and/or deal 5% to a character above it. This is mostly for recovery but could possibly be used for a set up.
Down B: Absol would have a move that would allow it to charge up an attack and deliver a heavy blow that can do 32% to an enemy. It would need to charge the attack for 3.3 seconds and then would be allowed to walk freely until it delivers the attack. Absol can charge for less than the 3.3 seconds, but the attack will not be as powerful. This attack will leave Absol exposed for 2 seconds if the attack is missed.
Final Smash: Finally, the Final smash will be the mega evolution of Absol which will enable him to fly and sweep from left to right hitting the enemies and dealing 45% per hit for 15 seconds.
One reason that Absol is a great pokemon to join the brawl is because Super Smash Bros needs more four legged characters to add to the diversity of the game.
Another reason is that Absol is genuinely a fan favorite among nintendo fans and would get a good reaction out of the community.
For these reasons, I believe that Absol would be the best fit for the Super Smash Bros franchise.
I wish the best of luck to my opponent as he cross examines my ideas.
Sorry for the late argument. Let's get into this.
Move set: To be honest, it's alright. There's not really any real flaws in the moveset, minus the fact that they're all attacks similar to other characters' moves.
Final Smash: However, we're not sure if Mega Absol can fly. Sure, it has wings, but it's still pure Dark type. Levitate isn't its ability either, so the wings could just be decoration.
Reasoning: I do agree Smash Bros could use a 4 legged fighter. As for being a fan favorite, I'm not sure, personally. That could be backed up.
It seems like my opponent chose a really good pokemon for his side. I'll have to step up my game for the 4th round. Let's see what his rebuttal against Sceptile will involve.
Just as my opponent said for the move set I presented for Absol, I do not find much wrong with my opponents moveset. The only true complaint being the Down B counter attack. In my opinion a toxic gas should not be used because Sceptile is not a poison type pokemon. *Also, the fact that all of these attacks are grass type pokemon moves when looking at the actual pokemon games will tie into a later argument.*
There is nothing necessarily wrong with this final smash, however it does not have too much of a genuineness to it. Perhaps if Sceptile's new Dragon typing were utilized it would be better.
My opponent said that because Sceptile is in Pokken Tournament, it could be an inspiration for the Super Smash Bros game. I do not believe this to be an effective theory because Pokken is a completely different game with a completely different style of play than Super Smash Bros.
*Super Smash Bros has already had a grass type pokemon in Ivysaur in Super Smash Bros Brawl on the Wii. Therefore it would be a better decision to have a typing not used before like Dark type for instance.*
As I said at the beginning of Round 2, Sceptile is my favorite pokemon ever. So kudos to my opponent (Great minds think alike). It was hard to come up with arguments against it.
I look forward to the next round.
I thank Shake7Bake for attending this debate all the way. It's always nice to see a new debater on the site. And now for my defense against his rebuttal.
Move set; My opponent says because Sceptile isn't poison type, it can't use a toxic gas. This is false, as Sceptile has this exact attack in Pokken Tournament; using detect, then countering with a toxic gas. So the rebuttal falls short. (And I do admit it's difficult to argue against a move set, since it's probably going to be well constructed.)
Final Smash; My opponent agrees with Sceptile's Mega Evolution as a Final Smash. However, he states "it does not have too much of a genuineness to it." I'm a bit confused on this sentence. I assume he's saying the Final Smash isn't accurate. "Perhaps if Sceptile's new Dragon typing were utilized it would be better." And how might the Dragon typing come into play, exactly? Mega Sceptile can't fly, so there goes the same idea as Charizard. I feel like a 1.5x power increase is the best for a Final Smash.
(Also, recall what I said about Absol's Final Smash; Mega Absol hasn't been shown to fly, making his Final Smash a bit questionable)
Sceptile in Pokken Tournament; "Pokken is a completely different game with a completely different style of play than Super Smash Bros." I know that. But that doesn't mean we can add a few attacks from Pokken into Smash, his strong attack could be his Forward Smash, his aerials in Pokken can also be in Smash, and if you didn't know, 3 of the 4 special moves I showed in Round 2 is present in Pokken Tournament.
(Also, Smash Bros is welcome to all fighters, no matter they're original play style. Like Ryu from Street Fighter, and Bayonetta.)
Typing issues; "Super Smash Bros has already had a grass type pokemon in Ivysaur in Super Smash Bros Brawl on the Wii." But in Smash Bros Melee, we have another Electric type, Pichu.
In Brawl, we have the Water type Squirtle. In Smash Bros 4, we have the Water/Dark type Greninja. So theres nothing wrong with repeating types already used.
"Therefore it would be a better decision to have a typing not used before like Dark type for instance." Did I mention Geninja is also part Dark type? This point just falls short hen you consider a few already repeating types, including the fact that Con's doing the same thing, although perhaps unintentional.
Closing Thoughts: This has been an interesting debate. And, once again, I thank Shake7Bake for not abandoning the debate, like a lot of new debaters do. With that, I await his final rebuttals and defenses.
Move Set: As my opponent said, my pokemon's move set does not have any flaws. The moves fit with the pokemon perfectly and would make a great contender in the game.
Final Smash: My opponent mentioned in his rebuttal, "we're not sure if Mega Absol can fly." I believe that my partner meant that Mega Absol can not learn the move fly in the pokemon games, because this argument does not hold much ground. There are plenty of pokemon that do not learn fly are still able to fly (i.e. Beautifly, Vespiquen, gliscor). No one is questioning whether these pokemon would be able to fly. Absol is no different.
Reasoning: My partner previously stated, "As for being a fan favorite, I'm not sure, personally". I beg to differ. In a recent poll, from the fans of pokemon on which pokemon was their favorite, Absol came in 9th place while Sceptile came in 41st place. It is clear that the majority of people would like to see Absol make it into the Super Smash Bros franchise.
"I do agree Smash Bros could use a 4 legged fighter." So do I!
Closing: Sad to see this debate come to a close, I remember seeing this topic and thinking that it would be a fun one and boy was I right. I could argue this point for a lot longer but sadly it has come to a close. I would ask that no one take the fact that I am new to this sight as a reason to vote for the opposition, because I am not at all new to debate in general. Just the sight. Thank you.
source (1): https://www.reddit.com...
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