The Instigator
dylancatlow
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Ore_Ele
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

New York City is the most influential city in the world

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Ore_Ele
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/3/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,098 times Debate No: 25423
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (25)
Votes (1)

 

dylancatlow

Pro

I will be arguing pro, that New York City (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, and Staten island) is the most influential city in the world.

Terms
1)New York City- New York is the most populous city in the United States, and the center of the New York metropolitan area, which is one of the most populous metropolitan areas in the world. ...
2) Influential - Having great influence on someone or something
3) Influence -The capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself.

I will carry the burden of proof in this debate.

Rules:
1) Users must address every obviously plausible argument, dropping ONLY pettifog or obviously flawed arguments.
2) In the first round, users must not make any arguments; doing so will result in loss of conduct point.
3) Debate format is as follows:

Round one - acceptance (this)
Round two- Pro (me) will post opening argument. Con (them) will post opening argument and rebuttal
Round three - Pro (me) will rebuttal and make closing statement. Con (them) will make closing statement ONLY. Not following this rule is an automatic loss of conduct point.

This is the case so we each make:
1 opening statement
1 rebuttal
1 closing argument

If a situation arises in which the resolution is obviously flawed is some way and makes one side of the argument impossible, it may be slightly altered if we both agree.
If you accept these terms please respond "I accept these terms as given"
I look forward to a fun debate!
Ore_Ele

Con

I accept and await my opponent's opening arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
dylancatlow

Pro

New York City is the largest financial center in the United States. It is anchored by Wall Street in lower Manhattan, also featuring the New York Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ. The New York Stock Exchange is the largest market in the World by market capitalization of its companies at a staggering 14.242 trillion dollars, trailed by the Tokyo Stock Exchange which has a capitalization of around 3.4 trillion. New York City is extremely influential in the world economy and thus the world as a whole. New York’s GDP is second only to Tokyo being between 1.3 trillion – 1.5 trillion GDP. New York City has a much smaller population than that of Tokyo and thus has a higher concentration of wealth. This concentration makes New York the most influential city in the world.
New York City was home to Ellis Island, the hub for immigration to the United States. Over 40% of Americans today can trace their roots back to Ellis Island. This past-influence still has great implications today as New York served as the entry way for many Americans which still influence Americans and the World alike.
New York City is ranked the #1 global city: the ranking was a follows:
#1 New York (6.3) #2 London (5.7) #3 Paris (5.4) #4 Tokyo (4.9) #5 Hong Kong (4.5) Link : http://en.wikipedia.org... The criterion for said index were that in be an important node in the global economic system as well as it have a direct and tangible effect on global affairs through socio-economic means. New York was also listed #1 in the Global City Competitiveness Index as well as #1 in the Global Power City index, all of which can be found from the link above. New York City is also home to the United Nations headquarters, obviously a boon to its influence in world affairs.
New York City is also home to many media corporations, including, ABC, Fox, NBC, and The New York Times. New York is also home to many fashion corporations, think tanks, book publishing firms, journalism, and movie-studios.
In conclusion, New York City is the most influential city in the world with its economic might, cultural influence, and human capital.


References:
1) http://en.wikipedia.org...
2) http://en.wikipedia.org...
3) http://www.atkearney.com...

Ore_Ele

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for their argument and shall post my argument with rebuttals first, then my argument.

My opponent breaks his argument into several parts, economics, immigration, and corporate residence. We shall address each of these individually.

1) Economics

New York does rank high when it comes to GDP, however we need to look at two different aspects for this. First, economic power is more than simply GDP, and second, how economic power translates into influence and if that is present in NYC.

First, we can see that NYC is not doing as well as my opponent would like to believe. The unemployment rate is steadily rising, while the national is on a downward trend [1]. Since Feb 2010, the US has created over 4.6 million private sector jobs [2], while NYC, in that same time has lost almost 60,000 jobs [1]. Meanwhile, tied to both the jobs and the economy in general, banks, as well as other businesses, are fleeing NYC for better places [3]. We can see that while NYC has a very large economy, it is not very stable and that lack of stability will greatly limit whatever influence it may have. Economic power translate to influence because money can be used to change people's minds. However, if you have a shaky economic that can and does leave when times are tough, the ability to have any long term influence is reduced. This can partially be seen that, despite several attempts, NYC has never made it past the first round of the final bid to get any Olympic event. The closest they got was for the 2012 summer [4], while several other US cities have hosted the Olympics.

2) Immigration

This also has two major flaws. First, is that Americans are typically not that big on immigration [5] as we have always been fairly dissatisfied with the current level of immigration. Second, we can trace everyone back to Africa, but that does not mean that Africa has a lot of influence. Simply being a check-in point does not grant NYC any real influence.

3) Corporate Residence

My opponent points out that various powerful and influential companies reside in NYC. As addressed in the economics section, companies will leave NYC pretty quickly if the grass is greener elsewhere. Many of these companies may exist in NYC, but they hold no real commitment or loyalty to NYC, so the city does not get a lot of influence from them.

We can see that NYC does have a deal of influence around the world, but it is not nearly as powerful as some may have believed.

We can show several cases of cities being more influential, but I shall focus only on one, the Vatican City [6]. While this is one of the smallest "cities" in the world, its influence spans the entire globe. Being a religious center for one of the most prominent religions in the world, it is not hard to see how it can directly and indirectly influence so many. And while it does not have a powerful economy, it does have a loyalty and dedication that companies will never hold, which allows its influence to cover those very companies which claim to have such a powerful influence with NYC. Articles from wikileaks show just how wide and how deep the influence of this city can go [7]. Vatican City currently has diplomats in 178 countries, second in the world behind only the US (despite having 1/400,000 the population). They effect elections all over the world and even down to state governments. They are an organization that is nothing other than influence.

If we try to compare the two side by side, there is no comparison. If we talk about GDP and money flow, sure, NYC puts up some intense numbers, but when it comes down to influence (as this debate is about), NYC doesn't come close.

Other cities, such as Mecca, Jerusalem, and Washington DC all hold more global influence than NYC.

[1] http://data.bls.gov...
[2] http://data.bls.gov...
[3] http://www.businessweek.com...
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[5] http://www.gallup.com...
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[7] http://www.cogwriter.com...
Debate Round No. 2
dylancatlow

Pro


I thank my opponent for his response. I’d like to rebut his responses one at a time.


1) ‘First, we can see that NYC is not doing as well as my opponent would like to believe. The unemployment rate is steadily rising, while the national is on a downward trend [1]. Since Feb 2010, the US has created over 4.6 million private sector jobs [2], while NYC, in that same time has lost almost 60,000 jobs [1]. Meanwhile, tied to both the jobs and the economy in general, banks, as well as other businesses, are fleeing NYC for better places’




  • Here my opponent assumes that just because NYC is going through tough economic times, that it somehow lessens its economic might. If the things he pointed out really were hindering NYC’s influence and economy to a great deal, it would show up in the global city rankings and its GDP. It’s not fair to point at all the things that could make a city less influential as evidence for that the city is less influential. It would be like saying ‘that student never studies for his tests, so he fails’ even when the student was getting consistent A’s.


The fact that NYC has retained its global economic and cultural influence given its recession shows how powerful it was to begin with. And because it has not lost this influence, it is fair to assume that it hasn’t lost it.



2) ‘NYC has never made it past the first round of the final bid to get any Olympic event. The closest they got was for the 2012 summer [4], while several other US cities have hosted the Olympics.’



- This argument is a non sequitur. The bid for the olympics has nothing to do with the city’s influence and or power. St. Louis has hosted the olympics; are you saying that St. Louis is more powerful and influential than NYC? Because it’s apparent that it is not, this can not be used to show anything about a city’s influence and power.



3) ‘This also has two major flaws. First, is that Americans are typically not that big on immigration [5] as we have always been fairly dissatisfied with the current level of immigration. Second, we can trace everyone back to Africa, but that does not mean that Africa has a lot of influence. Simply being a check-in point does not grant NYC any real influence.’




  • Regardless if Americans are ‘big on immigration’, immigration has still made a huge impact on America. Americans ARE immigrants. You talk about how everyone is from Africa as an argument against influence of roots. I find your example to work in my favor, actually. Every race can trace its roots back to Africa, and thus, they’re the embodiment of this influence.


4) ‘We can show several cases of cities being more influential, but I shall focus only on one, the Vatican City [6]. While this is one of the smallest "cities" in the world, its influence spans the entire globe. Being a religious center for one of the most prominent religions in the world, it is not hard to see how it can directly and indirectly influence so many. And while it does not have a powerful economy, it does have a loyalty and dedication that companies will never hold, which allows its influence to cover those very companies which claim to have such a powerful influence with NYC. Articles from wikileaks show just how wide and how deep the influence of this city can go [7]. Vatican City currently has diplomats in 178 countries, second in the world behind only the US (despite having 1/400,000 the population). They effect elections all over the world and even down to state governments. They are an organization that is nothing other than influence.’




  • You have failed to show how the Vatican City is more influential than NYC. All cities have some influence, so this argument means nothing. The Vatican City doesn’t influence the World to a high degree. It’s home to the pope, but that’s about it. The pope is not more influential than an entire city. He does not make many decisions and most of the Globe is never actually influenced by him. This goes for all religious cities; they rarely actually do anything except be holy.



5) ‘If we try to compare the two side by side, there is no comparison. If we talk about GDP and money flow, sure, NYC puts up some intense numbers, but when it comes down to influence (as this debate is about), NYC doesn't come close.



Other cities, such as Mecca, Jerusalem, and Washington DC all hold more global influence than NYC.’




  • GDP and money flow are ridiculously important to a city’s influence. You are axiomatically saying money isn’t important and political and religious power is without providing any evidence. If these cities really were the most influential cities in the World, they’d be ranked as such on ANY of the indexes done. They have not. All of said cities have great local influence, sure, but when it comes to where the real influence is, the World, they do not directly influence very much.



In conclusion, my opponent made weak attempts at proving New York City isn’t powerful by pointing out its economic troubles without actually addressing the fact that it’s still extremely economically powerful and ranked as such. My opponent made no valid alternatives to the World’s most influential city besides listing a few religious cities and DC and never expanding on them. New York City is the most influential city in the world because it has a great reach to the world economy. It has been ranked #1 on a myriad of indexes ranking city’s global power, economic power, and culture influence.



Ore_Ele

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for the debate and use this round for my closing statement/argument. Some may note that R1 says that my R3 is supposed to be for closing statements, not any arguments, however, R1 also clearly says, "This is the case so we each make:
1 opening statement
1 rebuttal
1 closing argument"

1) My opponent defends that NYC is still the largest GDP city in the world. No disagreement, however my opponent never addresses the fact that a powerful GDP =/= a powerful influence. My opponent also throws out a tautology fallacy, saying "And because it has not lost this influence, it is fair to assume that it hasn’t lost it."

But my opponent never connects GDP with influence.

2) My opponent calls the olympic bids a non sequitur. However, based on the definition provided in the OP for "influence" this is not true. NYC made the attempt and failed, this means that they failed "to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something," and such failed to have as high of influence on the IOC. So it does logically follow, while my opponent provides no evidence and only says "it is apparent."

3) Apparently my opponent believes that Africa has major influence. I will not be providing any additional arguments, so I'll leave this up to the voters to decide if it makes sense to them.

4) My opponent completely dismissed the point and the source, but does not refute them. He did not address that the Vatican City has more diplomats than 99% of other countries (this was brought up in R2 and is not a new stat). I provided sources that showed how much they are involved in politics across numerous countries and even at local levels. None of this was addressed by my opponent so these arguments all still stand.

5) My opponent forgets his own definition for influence and proceeds with an appeal to authority (the indexes say so). Needless to say, logical fallacies are not adequate refutations.

As I go through, I check that I have not presented any new arguments and merely pointed out fallacies. I have shown that my opponent stated that we are allowed closing arguments, but if some choose to believe that I have gone over the line, the consequence is also written out to be only a loss of conduct, and in which case I encourage you to disregard the arguments and carefully re-read the arguments and refutations, paying careful attention to logical fallacies and dropped arguments.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
25 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by dylancatlow 4 years ago
dylancatlow
Regardless of what they believe, it was clearly outlined in the agreement. If you had a problem with it, you should of either not accepted the debate or provided some other procedure which was fair to both sides. It's actually a huge advantage to get to rebut one more time in such a short debate.
Posted by Ore_Ele 4 years ago
Ore_Ele
In which case, I addressed if the voters believe I went over the line.
Posted by dylancatlow 4 years ago
dylancatlow
Yes, but you posted a rebuttal with your closing statement which IS NOT allowed.
Posted by Ore_Ele 4 years ago
Ore_Ele
You said in the rules that every player is allowed closing arguments.
Posted by dylancatlow 4 years ago
dylancatlow
The reason for this rule is because in my opening argument, I have nothing to rebuttal, and you do. I will do my best to vote you down for conduct points ;)
Posted by dylancatlow 4 years ago
dylancatlow
Also, you definitely should lose a conduct point for posting 2 rebuttals. This was clearly outlined in the debate and you did not follow directions.
You posted: 1 opening, 2 rebuttals, 1 closing.
Posted by dylancatlow 4 years ago
dylancatlow
Ore, I claimed many times that New York City was ranked as the most influential city in the world by indexes. I did not only cite its GDP, although, that is a huge piece when considering influence. And, it is quite apparent that experts on indexes concerned with influence are much more knowledable than you and I.
Posted by dylancatlow 4 years ago
dylancatlow
Notice in the resolution the 'is'. That means currently. Churches aren't based in any one city and no specialist has ever claimed that the vatican city is the most influential city in the world. Nor have they claimed any religious city to be the most influential city in the world. If you'd tell me, how is the Vatican city or Mecca influencing you? Even for Muslims, Mecca is not very influential. It's important, sure, but it is not making any choices that influence them. It simply is there.
Posted by Ore_Ele 4 years ago
Ore_Ele
Holy crap, that was funny. Though I wanted to do something that is influential now (though the church was much more in the past, but it still is very heavily).
Posted by Wallstreetatheist 4 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
Whoa, glitchy
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by hghppjfan 4 years ago
hghppjfan
dylancatlowOre_EleTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:12 
Reasons for voting decision: I hope that both of you have good luck. One peice of advice. Do not use wikipedia. People can change it to make wrong information.