The Instigator
1Historygenius
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
16kadams
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

Newt Gingrich vs. Rick Santorum

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
16kadams
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/9/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,304 times Debate No: 20316
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (27)
Votes (3)

 

1Historygenius

Pro

The great debate begins! Currently, Santorum and Gingrich are virtually tied all over the board and this means that only one of them can get the full support in order to kick Romney's a** in South Carolina, Florida, and Nevada. Newt Gingrich "the big thinker" vs. Rick Santorum "the fighter". Newt Gingrich with bold solutions vs. Rick Santorum with moral solutions. Who will come out on top? Only one can be the best anti-Romney AND be the best anti-Obama and we can longer keep one of these two to divide the conservative vote as seen here:

South Carolina Primary Polls:
01/07 PPP (D) -- Romney 30, Gingrich 23, Santorum 19, Paul 9
01/05 CNN/Time -- Romney 37, Santorum 19, Gingrich 18, Paul 12
01/05 ARG -- Romney 31, Santorum 24, Gingrich 24, Paul 9
01/05 Rasmussen -- Romney 27, Santorum 24, Gingrich 18, Paul 11

Florida's latest poll:
01/08 Quinnipiac -- Romney 36, Gingrich 24, Santorum 16, Paul 10

I am representing Gingrich.

Here is how this will be played out:

Round 1 is just the opener.
Round 2 is just basically a presentation of your candidate (aka no attacks).
Round 3 is the attack! Me and my opponent will go at each other.
Round 4 will be a combination of 2 and 3 for the conclusion.
16kadams

Con

your polls are off:

The RCP average (a lot of polls averaged together) shows:

santorum 17.3% vs gingrich 16.0%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com...

also santorum wins SC too:

20.7% vs 19.7% newt.

Gingirch does lead in Florida. By a lot. 20 vs 8, but newt = falling, santorum = rising.

well let's start this!
Debate Round No. 1
1Historygenius

Pro

Before I post why Newt should be picked over Santorum I will point out that my opponent's average between Gingrich and Santorum is still really close.

Now here is why I think it should be Newt 2012, not Rick 2012.

Gingrich has name recognition and is very comfortable on television. Early national polls led to the view that he is one of the top contenders. Combined, these factors mean Gingrich should be able to get the attention he needs to make his case. Although somewhat prone to gaffes, Gingrich is highly articulate and able to give the impression that he is serious and informed. He excels at debate. This means that he would be the best debater against Obama in an election debate as he has great rhetorical skill.

Newt Gingrich has a lot of success in his time as speaker. He was the last person to balance the budget had cut welfare by 60% and he stood with Ronald Reagan.

Newt Gingrich's plan to save the economy:
1. Stop the 2013 tax increases to promote stability in the economy. Job creation improved after Congress extended tax relief for two years in December. We should make the rates permanent.
2. Make the United States the most desirable location for new business investment through a bold series of tax cuts, including: Eliminating the capital gains tax to make American entrepreneurs more competitive against those in other countries; Dramatically reducing the corporate income tax (among highest in the world) to 12.5%; Allowing for 100% expensing of new equipment to spur innovation and American manufacturing; Ending the death tax permanently.
3. Move toward an optional flat tax of 15% that would allow Americans the freedom to choose to file their taxes on a postcard, saving hundreds of billions in unnecessary costs each year. This optional flat tax system will preserve deductions on charitable giving and home ownership, and create a new personal deduction of $12,000 for every American. This deduction is well above the current poverty level, ensuring that this new system does not unfairly target the poor.
4. Strengthen the dollar by returning to the Reagan-era monetary policies that stopped runaway inflation and reforming the Federal Reserve to promote transparency.
5. Remove obstacles to job creation imposed by destructive and ineffective regulations, programs and bureaucracies. Steps include: Repealing the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which did nothing to prevent the financial crisis and is holding companies back from making new investments in the U.S; Repealing the Community Reinvestment Act, the abuse of which helped cause the financial crisis; Repealing the Dodd-Frank Law which is killing small independent banks, crippling loans to small businesses and crippling home sales; Breaking up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, moving their smaller successors off government guarantees and into the free market; Replacing the Environmental Protection Agency with an Environmental Solutions Agency that works collaboratively with local government and industry to achieve better results; and Modernizing the Food and Drug Administration to get lifesaving medicines and technologies to patients faster.
6. Implement an American energy policy that removes obstacles to responsible energy development and creates jobs in the United States.
7. Balance the budget by growing the economy, controlling spending, implementing money saving reforms, and replacing destructive policies and regulatory agencies with new approaches.
8. Repeal and replace Obamacare with a pro-jobs, pro-responsibility health plan that puts doctors and patients in charge of health decisions instead of bureaucrats.
9. Fundamental reform of entitlement programs with the advice and help of the American people. Read an extended white paper on this here.

Newt is also a candidate who can take on the media onslaught that will be coming. That he has baggage, there is no doubt, but none that would hurt him in the general election like it has in the primary.

For foreign policy, Newt plans to secure an American energy plan so we don't rely on the continuous amounts of oil from the Middle East and wants to make sure that we keep with having the most powerful military on earth by keeping in strong math and science education in America to ensure the men and women of our Armed Forces always have the most advanced and powerful weapons in the world at their disposal. He believes that military force must be used judiciously and with clear, obtainable objectives understood by Congress.

In the educational field Newt wants to make sure the continued growth of American jobs and American prosperity in a knowledge-based, internet-connected, globally-competitive world will be determined by quality of America's schools. If America is going to remain competitive with China and India in the 21st century, then we must commit to improving education, especially in math and science, and moving from a bureaucrat-dominated status quo to an innovative system that emphasizes accountability, transparency, and parental choice.

He believes we should stand up to activist judges by:
1. Nominate conservative judges who are committed to upholding Constitutional limited government and understand that the role of the judges is to interpret the law, not legislate from the bench.
2. Combat judicial activism by utilizing checks on judicial power Constitutionally available to the elected branches of government. (Read an extended white paper on restoring the proper role of the judicial branch here (http://www.newt.org...).)

Presidents can begin turning things around very very quickly. As part of his 21st Century Contract with America, Newt has pledged to issue a series of Executive Orders to create jobs and help undo the damage of the Obama administration on the first day of his administration. To harness the wisdom and knowledge of the American people, Newt is now collecting ideas for executive orders that he would sign on the first day. Newt.org will periodically release user submitted executive orders which will be added to the list he will sign on the first day of his presidency.

Newt is opposed to the EPA's radical and anti-business regulations.

Newt's three promises to veterans in N.H.:
1. Re-opening the Manchester Hospital as a full service facility not just an outpatient clinic
2. Developing a very sophisticated clinic in the North Country that uses tele-medicine
3. An effective program that enables veterans to use their local doctor and hospital if they prefer

This will obviously expand into other parts of the nation.

Newt also has an area where you can submit YOUR ideas to him so YOUR ideas may happen in his presidency.

http://www.elephantwatcher.com...
http://www.newt.org...
http://www.redstate.com...
http://www.newt.org...
http://www.newt.org...
http://www.newt.org...
16kadams

Con

I will present my case, if I have space then I'll refute. If not I will refute next round. Also if you vote, vote as if you are a Conservative or looking at this in a conservative view.

C1: His economic plan

The good news is that Mr. Santorum is focused on spurring faster economic growth, which is the prerequisite for income gains for all Americans, especially the poor. [1]

On that score, Mr. Santorum joins most of the other Republicans who are proposing tax reforms that reduce rates in return for closing loopholes. He proposes a return to the Reagan-era top rate of 28%, and a second rate of 10% for middle-income Americans. He also wants a 12% capital-gains tax, down from 15% today, and half the 23.8% rate that Mr. Obama has promised in 2013. [1]

I love his plan.

It also includes:

balanced budget
major spending cuts
cut the corporate tax rate to 15%
Increase research development
eliminate many regulations [2]

You get the gist.

Also a Pennsylvania manufacturing company endorses the plan.

Senator Santorum said, "I am thrilled that Pennsylvania's leading manufacturing advocates have endorsed our jobs plan that would put Americas back to work - immediately and permanently. " [3]

C2: Newt is a moderate

As voters will vote from a conservative point of view, pointing this out basally wins the debate for me.

Not if Romney has his way. The former Massachusetts governor is stepping up his efforts to slap Gingrich with the "moderate" label, highlighting his willingness to compromise on certain issues in the past [4]

"Pelosi and Gingrich supported Al Gore's liberal global warming agenda," the ad says [4] Oh remember vote like you are ca conservative. if you where a conservative this totally crushes pro's arguments

Also Newt and Hilary Clinton worked TOGETHER on healthcare:.

Mr. Gingrich, the former House speaker, has been working alongside the former first lady on a number of issues, and even appeared with her at a press conference on Wednesday to promote - of all things - health-care legislation. [5]

Sadly, both of those betrayals are nothing compared to this deal. Newt, as Speaker, made a "name" for himself for opposing HillaryCare. [6]. SO since this is supposed to be in a GOP view, do you really want newt as president?

C3: Newt is corrupt

He claims he is anti freddie mae, freddie mac, yet he was PAID by them while in office, political lobbying I sense:

But now that it has been exposed that Freddie Mac paid Gingrich over $1.5 million to lobby conservative legislators to abandon their free-market convictions and support Freddie Mac, Newt has gone into damage-control mode. [7]

Oh BTW after another contention destroying Gingrich my next case will be about santorum.

Abramoff replied, "This is exactly what I'm talking about. People who come to Washington who have public service and they cash in on it. And they use their public service and their access to make money, and unfortunatley Newt Gingrich is one of them who have done it. But far too many of them do it and one of the reforms I propose in my book is to close permanently the door, the revolving door, betweeen public service and cashing in as a lobbyist." [8]

ha political lobbing, what keeps him from dong this as president? NOTHING. Also later in the article there is more proof for corruption.

C4: Newt is a flip flopper

In a Fox News interview on Sunday, Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich claimed that he "never favored cap and trade," four years after he expressed "strong support" for a cap-and-trade program to reduce carbon pollution. [9]

This = flip flop

Also Ron Paul in an add against newt gingrich shows many flip flops from newt. All o them where liberal, then he became Conservative for the election. [10]

But as Paul Waldman explained yesterday, Newt Gingrich is nearly as bad, reversing course on all kinds of issues, including climate change, health care mandates, and U.S. policy in Libya [11]

point proved.

C5: Rick santorum is a social conservative

Once again vote as if you are a conservative (this is a good plus for rick)

Rick Santorum can claim victory as the social-conservative candidate of 2012. [12]
Instead, Santorum won the hearts of social conservatives by being their favorite from the start. [12]

ALso:

anti abortion, appointing only constitutionalists judges, pro 2nd amendment, anti gay marriage, repeal obamacare, etc.[13]

C6: santorum was a very successful politician

He was also an author and floor manager of the landmark Welfare Reform Act which passed in 1996 that has empowered millions of Americans to leave the welfare rolls and enter the workforce. [14]

I noticed you said ginrich helped, well sure but did he make the reform? No. A refutation in an argument.

He served eight years on the Senate Armed Services Committee where he led the fight before the attacks of September 11th, 2001 to transform our military from a Cold War force to meet today's threats. He was a leader on US-Israeli relations, authoring both the "Syria Accountability Act" and the "Iran Freedom and Support Act" [14]

So he knows foreign policy.

C7: newts marriage vs santorums marriage

Santorums marriage:

But of all his accomplishments, Rick is most proud of his role as a husband and father. Rick and his wife of 21 years, Karen, are the parents of seven wonderful children: Elizabeth, John, Daniel, Sarah Maria, Peter, Patrick and Isabella.[14]

vs

Newts:

Repeated adultery with younger women, while each successive wife was seriously ill --- and all along Newt was proclaiming himself a champion of family values. [15]

So as a conservative this is a downside. And to a certain subset of the population they WILL not vote for him at all due to this.

C8: electability

Santorum v obama

santorum 40.7
Obama 48.0 [16]

Gingrich 41%
Obama 50.2% [17]

If oyu look at the margin storum is closer, hence more electable.

=conclusion=

Santorum is a better candidate and is better qualified for the WH. Vote CON!

My beautiful sources:

http://online.wsj.com... [1]
http://www.ricksantorum.com... [2]
http://www.ricksantorum.com... [3]
http://www.csmonitor.com... [4]
http://www.nytimes.com... [5]
http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com... [6]
http://articles.businessinsider.com... [7]
http://www.politico.com... [8]
http://thinkprogress.org... [9]
http://www.wrko.com... [10]
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com... [11]
http://www.nationaljournal.com... [12]
http://www.ricksantorum.com... [13]
http://www.ricksantorum.com... [14]
http://www.realchange.org... [15]
http://www.realclearpolitics.com... [16]
http://www.realclearpolitics.com... [17]
Debate Round No. 2
1Historygenius

Pro

I will point out however, that the point is you should not refute at all in Round 2 as I stated in the rules, the point of Round 2 was develop your candidate more.

Now its time to rip Santorum for me as I said we would rip each other in the third round. Lets begin shall we?

If Rick Santorum was so conservative why did he:
1. During the Bush the administration, Santorum helped lead the GOP away from their principles, by concocting all kinds of government spending programs designed to create new government dependent constituencies that would be loyal to the GOP.
2. Rick Santorum voted for the first new federal entitlement program since LBJ (Medicare Part D), the largest federal intrusion into the classroom in history (the failed No Child Left Behind), the largest pork barrel infrastructure bill in history (including the infamous "bridge to nowhere"), and thousands of earmarks.
3. Santorum helped turn a balance budget into huge deficits and set the stage for the Democrats to regain control of the Congress and White House.
4. Rick Santorum is the poster boy for everything that was wrong with the GOP during the Bush administration. As a result, he got booted out of office in 2006 along with the rest of the GOP Congress. He lost to a conservative Democrat by a whopping 59% to 41%.
5. During the 1980s, Ronald Reagan (with Gingrich) vetoed a transportation bill from a Democrat Congress because it contained 150 earmarks. During the Bush Administration, Santorum helped to Sheppard a transportation bill through a GOP Congress that contained over 1,000 earmarks (including the "bridge to nowhere"). Bush signed it. This alone should tell us all how much of a so-called "conservative" Santorum is.
6. Santorum also endorsed liberal GOP Senator Arlen Specter over his conservative challenger Pat Toomey in 2004. Specter won the primary and the election. Thanks to Rick Santorum, Arlen Specter was around to cast the deciding vote for Obamacare in the Senate. In 2010, Specter switched to the Democrat Party and lost to his primary challenger. Pat Toomey won the Senate seat.

More of Rick Santorum's "conservatism" can be shown in the ad I placed made by the good people at the Rick Perry campaign.

To tell you the truth I think if people had to choose between Newt Gingrich's record of his number of wives vs. the number of times Rick Santorum spent trillions of dollars, I think the public would go with Newt over Santorum and chances are Newt can take on anyone who questions his morals which while have been questioned have not become an incredibly gigantic block for him.

I would also like to say that (not including the decimals) there is a 9% difference in Obama vs. Gingrich and 8% when he takes on Santorum, but remember that anything can happen from now to then and remember that Santorum presided over a Bush congress which Obama will infamously show off, but Newt did not. Instead Newt stood with Ronald Reagan and stoop up to Bill Clinton. Remember that Newt was the last person to balance the budget. Chances are Gingrich would be more aggressive than Santorum in a general election in debates and ads.

By the way that welfare reform, knows as the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996, was indeed help made and pushed through by Newt Gingrich who was the speaker of the house at the time. Without his crucial support it may had not been passed as he was the most powerful man in the house. Basically, Santorum is in many ways agreeing with the plans Gingrich has so why not Gingrich anyway?

I have noticed something that Newt has on his site that Rick does not have on his....well actually several things: He does not have a full page for energy reform which could save the country a lot of money, he does not have a full page to deal with immigration, and he does not have a Day One plan. How about that?

Now you have said that Gingrich is a flip-flop but, he has changed his views as many people do over time, but has Santorum admitted that he changed his views? No! He has said anything about changing his views so he must support raising the debt and so on about my other proof of what he has done. Santorum may not be a flip-flop but he is just one big flop on the United States of America, a flop we can do without.

Its not like we have not seen corruption before, but who is to say that Gingrich is only in for money? He has never ran for the presidency ever, until now which shows he really cares about this nation.

http://www.freerepublic.com...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.newt.org...
https://www.ricksantorum.com...
16kadams

Con

Point 1.

My rebuttal is if Newt was so conservative why did he political lobby with freddie mae and freddie mac? Lobbying with large govermenal rganizations that dis the republican party is worse then being pro insitutions that are for the repubicans. Regardless the cost, also those 2 companies i mentioned are a large cost as well.

Also you forgot this:

Budget and economy - Voted for balanced budget constitutional amendment - Solid conservative on cutting spending and deficits. [2]


Point 2.

at least he didn't support obamacare like laws like he did with hillary. [1]

Before his bid for president he supported socialistic polieiec for educaton [1]

at least he didn't go on a TV add with Nancy pelosi supporting cap and trade [1]

at least he didn't co sponser 418 bills with nancy pelosi. [1]

Really there are a few more which need not be listed yet, yet you still claim he is a conservative. Really?

Point 4

"I lost an election in the worst election year for Republicans in the history of our state," Santorum said to CNN. [3]

Makes sense, every one hated the republicans because of bush and the deficit and a slipping economy. Many republican lost their bids that year. Also PA is a liberal state, a good excuse. You forgt where in districts like this he beat liberals many times, but lost this due to the bush failures. Also the person eh ran against was former govermer, so a govermer or an incumbant. The governer can always say he has executive experience. There are many viable non failure reasosn he lost.

Polls conducted before Santorum's re-election defeat found voters in Pennsylvania opposed to the Congressional intervention in the case.

Santorum's handling of the Schiavo situation did agree with social conservatives who are now flocking to his campaign. [3]

That was another reason, he did a conservative unpopular thing. Anothe rreason he lost, but at least he did the right conservative thing.

Point 5

The former senator is right on this. He was elected to help Pennsylvania. It was his duty to get them as much funding as possible. But, let’s be clear. That money wasn’t going to go away if he didn’t take it. It would have gone to some other state who’s senator did their job. I see no conflict between trying to get as many earmarks as possible as senator and being against the policy of earmarks as President. [4]

This is from an anti santorum site, saying he is right, he did the status quo. Also really? souce the info for the he vetoed it b/c of earmarks, then we talk. Bu this site says the earmark acusaiton is baseless. Also wanna talk earmarks? Let's talk about other canidates.

Point 6

Once again, my first source states 10 liberal positions of newt. ere is more proof and examples of newts liberaless:

When you consider Gingrich was behind big government programs like SCHIPs as Speaker, it's hard not to notice Newt was never about a conservative revolution--but his years as Speaker was spent preparing him for the millions he would make as a lobbyist. [6]

So yes santorum has some faults, but newt is a total fail moderate.

"To tell you the truth I think if people had to choose between Newt Gingrich's record of his number of wives vs. the number of times Rick Santorum spent trillions of dollars"

Well socially newt has a bif problem there. Also ick voted for a balanced budget ammendment. Let's look at NEWTS record:

Newt Gingrich Backs Funds For Abortion

Newt Gingrich filmed a commercial with liberal Democrat Nancy Pelosi advocating the feds impose regulations to cut back global warming -

Newt Gingrich wants to replace the EPA instead of abolishing it

Newt Gingrich lobbied for ethanol subsidies

Newt Gingrich's Environmental Problem

Newt Gingrich co-sponsored the Global Warming Prevention Act

Newt Gingrich says he would've voted for TARP (burn jk)

Newt Gingrich supports Obama and Mitt Romney's healthcare plan (lol)

Newt Gingrich says the government must force people to buy health insurance [7]

AND THEIRS A WHOLE PAGE FULL OF IT. So wanna argue who is m eliebral then let's go.

Also wan't to raise taxes:


Well being for cap and trade = higher taxes.

Once again wanna argue liberal votign records bring it on.

"I would also like to say that (not including the decimals) there is a 9% difference in Obama vs. Gingrich and 8% when he takes on Santorum"

Yes anything can happen but it still proves (as w are in the unknown) that santorum is slightly more electable at this moment. This is a concession.

"Remember that Newt was the last person to balance the budget. Chances are Gingrich would be more aggressive than Santorum in a general election in debates and ads."

1. Newt is for a positive campaign [8]

2. How do you know? No proof that either will be stronger, wait I p't positive ads. My point previals.

"Basically, Santorum is in many ways agreeing with the plans Gingrich has so why not Gingrich anyway?"

1. yes they agree, so that argument was to show this argument is = for both

2. Santorum trumps newt as he is more conservative. Also an agreement =/= let's vote gingrich. It is a let's weigh both of the canidates.

"He does not have a full page for energy reform which could save the country a lot of money, he does not have a full page to deal with immigration"

lol newt will be pro EPA replacement (same hting different name) and cap and trade. SO yes higher taxes, and more spending. Evens out.

On September 20, 2006 Senator Santorum appeared on Hannity and Colmes to discuss the Secure Fence Act of 2006. He touts the differences on immigration between him and his opponent. [9]

No amnesty and a fence more border agents send them back. [9]

He has an immagration policy. Newt is for amnesty. Rick has a conservtive border policy (I am actually against a fence) but in a conservative view Rick wins.

ricks energy plan:

Santorum favors an energy policy using oil, natural gas, coal, and nuclear energy. He opposes new regulations on natural gas, and would allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). [10]

So every thing "he doesn't have" he has.

"He has said anything about changing his views so he must support raising the debt and so on about my other proof of what he has done. "

He voted for a balanced budget:

He also voted for a balanced budget amendment and a line-item veto in 1995. [11]

No change in spending.

Also I have listed MULTIPLE newt flip flops, you list a possible one, therefore Newt is worse.

=conclusion=

My oppoennt concedes my case andjust tries to make santorum worse on the things i have said, which I disproved. Also in the point above he says santorum ip flopped once, I mentioned like 5 or 6 newt flip flops. His arguments are also riddled with fallacies. Also I cannot see where his info comes from as his source format is odd. Also his format is a little odd but it is ok. Vote con as my opponent has failed ot prove or refute his claims.



http://themoralcollapseofamerica.blogspot.com... [1]

http://conservativedailynews.com... [2]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com... [3]
http://race42012.com... [5]
http://bungalowbillscw.blogspot.com... [6]
http://www.dailypaul.com... [7]
http://www.breitbart.tv... [8]
http://www.thepoliticalguide.com... [9]
http://elections.msnbc.msn.com... [10]
Debate Round No. 3
1Historygenius

Pro

The good news is that Newt also has an "Answering the Attacks" page on his site so we can hear it loud and clear from him [1].

So lets answer these attacks straight:

1. Relationship with Freddie Mac
Recent reporting from Bloomberg News on the Gingrich Group's consulting services for Freddie Mac confirms that Gingrich and his firm were not paid to lobby and that Gingrich never acted as an advocate to stop any legislation or regulation affecting Freddie Mac. After leaving public office, Newt Gingrich founded a number of very successful small businesses. One of these small businesses, a consulting firm called The Gingrich Group, offered strategic advice on a wide variety of topics to a very wide range of clients. One of these clients was Freddie Mac. At no time did Gingrich lobby for Freddie Mac, or for any client, and neither did anyone in Gingrich's firm. This prohibition against lobbying was made clear to all Gingrich Group clients. Nor did Gingrich ever advocate against pending legislation affecting Freddie Mac, as some articles have incorrectly alleged. In fact, recent reporting from Bloomberg News on the Gingrich Group's consulting services for Freddie Mac confirms that Gingrich and his firm were not paid to lobby and that Gingrich never acted as an advocate to stop any legislation or regulation affecting Freddie Mac. Furthermore, as the New York Times documents, Newt urged House Republicans to vote against the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Newt is in favor of efforts to increase home ownership in America but as a conservative believes they must be within a context of learning how to budget and save in a responsible way, the opposite of the lending practices that led to the financial crisis. You can watch a video from March 2008 of Newt warning about the danger of politicized decision making in the housing crisis here as it is my first video I posted as well as the second. As part of Newt's Jobs and Prosperity Plan, Newt advocates breaking up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and moving their smaller successors off of government guarantees and into the free market. [1] [2]

2. So why did Newt do the ad with Nancy Pelosi in 2007 calling for action to address climate change?
Newt does not believe there is a settled scientific conclusion about whether industrial development has dramatically contributed to a warming of the atmosphere (third video). Through his entire career, Newt has supported pro-market, pro-entrepreneur, innovative solutions to our environmental challenges, which he believes are superior to the liberal pro-bureaucracy, pro-tax, pro-regulation approach to the environment. Newt believes that conservatives cannot be absent from the conversation about the environment and instead that conservatives must offer and explain why conservative solutions are better. Unfortunately, the attempt to get that message out through the ad with Nancy Pelosi failed. On November 8, 2011, Newt told FOX News' Bret Baier that doing that commercial with Pelosi was "probably the dumbest single thing I've ever done" (fourth video). Newt will continue to oppose the Democrats' destructive cap-and-trade and carbon tax proposals, continue to support expanded domestic oil and gas drilling, and continue to fight for a fundamental replacement of the job-killing Environmental Protection Agency with an Environmental Solutions Agency. [1]

3. Vote for Department of Education
As President, Newt will dramatically shrink the Department of Education to a research and reporting overview agency, and restore decision-making powers to states and communities. When Newt voted for the creation of the Department of Education, the institution was only structured to provide research and collect data. Unfortunately, the bureaucracy ballooned, so while Speaker, Newt aggressively campaigned to pare down the Department back to its appropriate role and return power to the states. As President, Newt will dramatically shrink the Department of Education to a research and reporting overview agency, and restore decision-making powers to states and communities. Most responsibilities and positions will be eliminated, and its new role will be to help find new and innovative approaches to then be adopted voluntarily at the local level. Newt will steadfastly oppose any national curriculum standards, and will reverse Barack Obama's nationalization of the student loan industry. [1]

4. Healthcare Rationing/Donald Berwick
Newt is deeply opposed to government imposed healthcare rationing and has consistently spoken out against it. He rejects the recommendations of the former head of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Donald Berwick, for a system like the British National Health Service that rations the health care Americans can receive. Read the debate Newt had on rationing with Michael Rawlins, the chair of the British rationing board NICE, to see that Gingrich has always opposed any government effort to deny or ration care. Where Newt has praised Berwick was in the work he did with the Save 100,000 Lives campaign, which put forth solutions on preventing infections in hospitals; preventing deadly medication errors; and improving the treatment of patients who have suffered heart attacks. Newt believes Berwick's views on rationing care, however, are controversial and dangerous. [1] [3]

5. Mandate to Purchase health insurance
Newt opposes Governor Romney's health insurance mandate, and Newt opposes President Obama's health insurance mandate. Newt believes mandates to buy health insurance are wrong on principle, and in the case of the Obamacare health insurance mandate, unconstitutional as well. With respect to President Obama's health insurance mandate, Newt believes it is an unprecedented and unconstitutional expansion of federal power. If the federal government can coerce individuals—by threat of fines—to buy health insurance, there is no stopping the federal government from forcing Americans to buy any good or service. It is a serious and unconstitutional infringement of individual liberty. With respect to Governor Romney's mandate, we have observed that it doesn't achieve its goal of providing low cost catastrophic coverage for the uninsured. The intractable problem we have learned from experience with health insurance mandates is this: once you have a mandate, the government has to specify exactly what coverage must be included in insurance for it to qualify. This introduces political considerations into determining these minimum standards, guaranteeing that nothing desired by the special interests will be left out. In the 1990s, Newt and many other conservatives, such as the Heritage Foundation, proposed a mandate to purchase health insurance as the alternative to Hillarycare. However, the problems outlined above caused Newt to come to the principled conclusion that a mandate to purchase health insurance was unconstitutional, unworkable and counterproductive to lowering the cost of healthcare. Today, Newt carries the banner in fighting for the repeal of Obamacare and advocates for a "patient power" replacement that will create a free market framework for healthcare, provide affordable, portable, and reliable healthcare coverage, and establish a healthcare safety net focused on those truly in need. This system moves us towards the goal of healthcare for all with no unconstitutional mandate of any kind. [1] (5th video)

I have to stop now because I am running out of characters. However, all your criticisms are answered at Newt's site.

1. http://www.newt.org...
2. http://www.nytimes.com...
3. http://www.economist.com...
16kadams

Con

His refutation 1

sources told Bloomberg News that Gingrich was hired to build bridges with Republican members of Congress who were wary about the organization’s work. [1]

He tried to convince peole to be pro freddie mae and mac, while being paid by them, aka political lobbying.

Freddie Mac officials disputed both claims and government watchdogs noted that politicians like Gingrich often deliberately structured “consultant” jobs to circumvent lobbying registration requirements. [2]


Also how is he trust worthy if he won't even admit toflip flopping in libya, as said in my second source. So you trust him to admit something like this yet he won't even admit to flip flopping on one minor issue? No he won't tell your logic = fallacy.

His refutation 2

so then why did he

1. do that add (which you didn't adress why, so basically admiteflip flopped)
2. support cap and trade.

let's explain number one:

the Romney campaign highlights footage from a bipartisan commercial starring Gingrich and Pelosi for Gore's "liberal Global Warming agenda," which aims "to push job-killing climate change legislation." [3]

1989: Rep. Newt Gingrich (R-GA) co-sponsors the ambitious Global Warming Prevention Act (H.R. 1078) [4]

He is FOR global warming, ust flip flopped to help his election efforts.

Explain number two:

"I think if you have mandatory carbon caps combined with a trading system, much like we did with sulfur, and if you have a tax-incentive program for investing in the solutions, that there's a package there that's very, very good," he said. And frankly, it's something I would strongly support." - Newt gingrich and [5]

FLip flop. Also he has not adressed his new cap and trade opinon. He is for this mandatory tax. You have not provided many sources proving you point, here I have one, also a quote from newt, and like 3 last round. Lets have one more:

It's true he's never favored the approach taken by Democrats, but he said in 2007 that he would "strongly support" cap-and-trade if combined with "a tax-incentive program for investing in the solutions". [6]

and

Furthermore, Gingrich said in House testimony in 2009 that he still might support a cap-and-trade system covering "the 2,000 most polluting places," if packaged with incentives for nuclear power and "green coal," among other things. [6]


refutation3

You hve admited 3 times so far he is a flip flop. That means his views now, and then are unreliable AND WILL change if elected. You are really just proving that he not reliable. SO basically he was for the department, now against. He is th emost unreliable person yet. You are proving this. His views now are irrelavant as (according to his flip flop record) will all be different in the general election. He will become moderate to help him win. YOU HAVE HELPED ME.

Refutation 4 and 5

Another flip flop. His views now =/= his voews in the general election.

Newt Gingrich called for an expansion of government health care when he praised the Veterans Health Administration for serving as “a model for modernization and a model of using information technology that’s very impressive” during a veterans issues forum in Iowa on Saturday [7]

So really he ven if he did change his opinion (which he didn't) then he flip flopped. But since he didn't he is a liberal.

The ad names both former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and focuses on their previous statements and actions in support of health insurance mandates. [8]

for mandated HC

“If you explore the mandate, it ultimately ends up with unconstitutional powers. It allows the government to define virtually everything. And if you can do it for health care, you can do it for everything in your life, and, therefore, we should not have a mandate.”

— Remarks by Newt Gingrich during GOP debate in Manchester, N.H., June 13, 2011 [9]



Really all of what you have said either proves he is a flip flop, or is false. If he is for a mandate HC then he is for your 4 refutation, so he either flip flopped, or I am right, either way it proves if your a conservative newt is not your man.

=end rebuttals. conclusion to them=

Remember voters vote as you are conservative. Also my opponent basically roves my point, he has flip flopped. This makes him unreliable. Also I have many me sources then he, so my points are more factual. further more I have his recent quotes and his record on my side, his site says he is anti what he is for, therefore he is:
1, lying
2. flip flop for election services
3. a moderate.

It is a mix of all 3. Newt is not your man. Also he has given up his anti santorum stuff, therefore he concedes my canidate. No refutation for santorum = you concede his greatness.

C1: santorums economic plan

he dropped my point here, therefore it is conceded by him, no need to add on.

C2: Newt is a moderate


He has dropped this point as this debate progressed. Now is just trying to justfy his flip flops, but I debunked his arguments there too. I have basically won this debate in this argument (like no significant rebuttals, so a semi-drop on his side)

Agh I do not need to add on.

=conclusion=

I have proven newt a cerial flip flopping moderate corupt lobbier, that is not fit to run the country, also my opponent has not reute many of my main points, and has dropped his first rebuttals and only tried to jusify the flip flops. He didn't push his arguments. Also I have taken apart his arguments one by one, and have provided sources 1 by one. He has few sources, I had many. Also I have proven santorum a viable canidate, and newt as a poor choice. I have done well in this debate, VOTE PRO

P.S. remember vote like you wan't the most conservative person. So your RFD saying a moderate is better is a VB. Only from a conservative point of view, so vote on who you thought was proven a better conservative and reliable person based on this debate. Act liek your reading this from my view, or HG's.





sources.


http://abcnews.go.com... [1]
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com... [2]
http://nymag.com... [3]
http://planetsave.com... [4]
http://www.politico.com... [5]
http://www.usatoday.com... [6]
http://thinkprogress.org... [7]
http://www.texastribune.org... [8]
http://www.washingtonpost.com... [9]
Debate Round No. 4
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ahopele 5 years ago
ahopele
Hopefully neither of these two candidates win the presidency. Better yet, hopefully neither of them gets the republican nomination.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
yay!
Posted by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
@islam

It does not matter what the founding fathers think they would be stuck with what is happening today just as everyone else is, but Gingrich is the best to save the country. As for number 2 sh** happens. I fo number 1 also.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
@islam

I do all of that...
Posted by Islam_Forever 5 years ago
Islam_Forever
Neoconservative, deluded, selfish corporate shill vs. Neoconservative, deluded, selfish corporate shill...

I could understand the support of Santorum or Gingrich from people with absolutely no knowledge of economics, morality, and history. However, I would not expect it from you two.

Advice:
(1) Study Austrian Economics, Monetary Policy, and watch Milton Friedman on YouTube
(2) Understand that leaving a person's wife who has cancer is wrong, and also that bringing a dead newborn home to show your kids and to sleep with is wrong
(3) Read from the founders: Jefferson, Franklin, and Washington who are fundamentally opposed to many of the issues Gingrich and Santorum support. Also, by examining the failures of Bush's and Obama's implemented and maintained socialist policies, we can adequately judge the risks of continuing in this direction.
Posted by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
I would just like to announce the decline of Santorum in the polls:

01/13 PPP (D) -- Romney 29, Gingrich 24, Paul 15, Santorum 14
01/12 ARG -- Romney 29, Gingrich 25, Paul 20, Perry 9
01/12 Rasmussen -- Romney 28, Gingrich 21, Santorum 16, Paul 16
01/11 Insider Adv -- Romney 23, Gingrich 21, Santorum 14, Paul 13
01/09 WeAskAmerica -- Romney 26, Gingrich 21, Santorum 13, Paul 8
Posted by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
I actually thought there would be a lot of voters for this debate. Guess I was wrong.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I wanna shoot romney, not literally
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
Santorum is beating Gingrich 15% to 14% on the national level....

Romney unfortunately has 34% of the vote on the national level.... more than Gingrich and Santorum combined....

http://www.gallup.com...
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
those sources get you well earned points in debates though
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
1Historygenius16kadamsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: Neoconservative, deluded, selfish corporate shill vs. Neoconservative, deluded, selfish corporate shill... That being said, Con had three times the buttload of sources Pro had.
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
1Historygenius16kadamsTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: Each candidate i feels has a fundamental flaw to them that makes them in some way unelectable, that being said neither argument was clearly more convincing than the other, but con used a crapload of sources so i gave him that..... interesting read though
Vote Placed by Angelo 5 years ago
Angelo
1Historygenius16kadamsTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: con had many more sources, and as I have to act right-wing for the vote from more credible biased republican sources. Also overall he had many more so either way he gets those points. Also He had better arguments as pro stopped pushing his main arguments and basically conceded the moderate and flip flop label. He just tried to justify those two points. COn should have used the amnesty arguments, but either way overall con did superior in those categories, therefore he wins. Good job to both.