Nico Di Angelo vs Jason grace
Debate Rounds (5)
Rules of this debate.
1. NO PROFANITY.
2. You can only reference to Rick Riordan books.
3.Have a reasonable argument.
This is my first debate and i wish my opponent good luck.
Jason Grace is a demi-god, the son of Jupiter, the Roman equivalent to Zeus. As a result, he has many powers that are derived from his lineage.
He has the powers of air. This allows him with the ability to fly through the use of air currents, which he can generate. He can also generate extremely powerful winds and storms, strong enough to knock down a giant. He also has control of the weather, as long as it has some connection to air, such as the ability to create tornadoes.
Jason also has powers of electricity. He is able to summon lightning from the sky, as well as is able to generate static electricity and is able to electrocute his enemies on contact. Along with that, Jason is also immune (or has extremely high resistance) to electricity, as he has survived being struck by a lightning bolt that was said to be powerful enough to kill twenty people.
He also has the support of Tempest, a storm spirit whom he managed to tame. Although he has the ability to control any being of the sky and air, for the purpose of this debate, we shall assume that he only has control of Tempest (as it is one he has actually tamed and called on in the books)
Jason doesn't just have the powers of a demi-god, though, as he is also a formidable fighter and is at least a decent strategist. He was raised in the Roman camp, a militaristic camp, where he gained his exceptional skill in hand to hand combat as well as to never show weakness and be tough. He is adept in using a lance and a sword with ease, and is also shown as being capable of using a gladius. He is also skilled enough to take down bigger and more experienced opponents, most clearly shown in his victory over Krios, a titan.
The reasons I find that Jason would defeat Nico in a fight is as follows:
Jason is a being of the air, while Nico is a being of the ground. With the ability of the air, he already has a height advantage over Nico, giving him (Jason) more room and space to fight. His fighting skills are far superior to Nico, giving him the advantage in terms of direct combat.
While Nico has abilities that are arguably stronger than Jason, the books show that Nico gets tired far more faster when he uses them (his powers) while Jason seems to only get truly worn out after either a long period of time, or after doing something different with his powers, such as conducting his electricity through his weapons.
With that said, each and any of Nico's abilities can easily be countered with his weather manipulation, be it through storms or lightning strikes. Nico's fear inducing blade (assuming it affects him, as it has only so far been shown to affect monsters) would be negated by Jason's upbringing to be tough, and to not show weakness, or in this case, fear. With this conditioning of his mind, fear tactics such as Nico's blade would be less likely to affect Jason in battle.
Tempest would also be invaluable in his fight against Nico, as he (Tempest) can be used as support, be it to help fight the hordes of undead that Nico calls out, or to attack Nico directly.
http://en.wikipedia.org... (See: Personality paragraph)
http://camphalfblood.wikia.com... (See: The Lost Hero paragraph)
With that, I pass the argument back to Pro.
You said that Nico has powers to create Earthquakes. However, this ability is completely negated by the fact that Jason can fly, as earthquakes would only affect those on the ground.
While Jason does get tired faster when he produces lightning, the books show that it takes a longer time for him to tire while using his powers over wind, such as in his battle against the giant.
The book says that he (Jason) tired, but only after a while of travelling, as he was continuously using his power over a longer period of time. Even assuming that Jason tires easily in the air, he does not have to be up there for the entirety of the fight; for example, he could simply rise to the air when Nico attacks with an earthquake.
While Nico might be a good sword fighter in his own right, Jason has had years more worth of training and experience, and as I repeated in my earlier post, this is seen most clearly in his fight and victory over a Titan. Also, keep in mind that keeping up in battle is less about being skilled in fighting, and more about being able to avoid being hit. Also of importance is Nico's sword, which as you said, only one cut is required to defeat them, meaning that Nico does not need as much skill to keep up with the likes of Percy and Thalia. Jason also has shown to be adaptable in his fighting skills, as shown in the Lost Hero, where he adapted his fighting style to defeat Lityerses.
Nico's army could also be easily defeated, not just through Jason's skill at arms, but also through his blowing them away with gusts of air or the use of Tempest. The power of Nico's army is further negated by the fact that Jason does not need to defeat the undead soldiers; he only needs them (Nico's undead army) to be dispersed sufficiently to be able to get to Nico.
Nico's deadliest power would be his ability to Shadow Travel; however, the books depict this as being extremely tiring to Nico, and would be far more harmful than helpful in a battle.
While one cut from Nico's blade would be enough to defeat Jason, there is little to no guarantee that Nico would be able to land that cut, as there is little evidence that supports Nico being as good a sword fighter as Jason; on top of that, Jason is not only skilled in using a sword, but also other weapons, such as a lance, which has far greater range than a sword, and a javelin, which can be thrown with great accuracy.
Con said that "If Jason Grace is only able to summon one lightning bolt, he isn't going to be able to summon a large storm if he isn't even able to summon more than one lightning bolt."
I would like to correct that, as Jason doesn't create the weather (excepting the lightning bolt); he merely manipulates it, controlling it to some degree. For example, it is unlikely that he would be able to make it rain heavily in the Sahara Desert. Jason would still therefore be able to create a lighting storm, though he may likely not have proper control of the lighting bolts; this would not be against him, however, as he is immune to the strikes (or at least, highly resistant) while Nico is not.
I look forward to hearing your response, Con.
defeat Jason grace. Also Jason grace is trained to fight with an army. Nico has been alone his whole life. you mention he beat the titan krios but he didn't do it by himself. He had camp to back him up. Jason will not be used to fighting a army and Nico by himself. Also Nico held of a hold army full of monsters in order to by time for Percy to contact Olympus by himself. Also while Jason will have to land eventually, Nico can summon a dark fissure from the underworld that can drag Jason strait to tartarus. I'm interested to read cons next argument.
Unfortunately, I have yet to hear any conclusive evidence that Nico would be able to win, and instead I am given assumptions as to what would happen. However, I am still going to refute the assumptions presented.
First of all, as I said in my previous post, Jason does not have to fly for the entire battle. I also never mentioned saying that Jason would be forced to manipulating a storm while airborne; I merely mentioned that he would be able to fly to escape any earthquakes caused by Nico through flying.
Once again, I have to repeat myself. Jason does not have to defeat Nico's army. All he simply needs to do is disperse them enough to be able to get to Nico.
Con also misrepresents Nico's abilities. While Nico can summon the undead, he can only control monsters. To assume that he can summon monsters is very presumptuous. Even if we were to include the belief that Nico could summon monsters, this power is negated by Jason's (also presumed) ability to summon other storm spirits and beings of the air that would be far more destructive, as they are incorporeal and thus would be very difficult, if not impossible, to actually be hit.
While Jason is trained to fight an army, he is also a formidable fighter on his own. This is clearly seen in his battle with Lityerses in The Lost Hero, as well as his battle with Krios, which was a one on one fight as mentioned in The Son of Neptune, which Con seems to disbelieve.
Nico did not hold off the army by himself: He had the use of his undead army. On top of that, as I made mention earlier, due to his sword being extremely lethal, Nico does not even need much skill in sword fighting.
Con also makes mention that "Nico has been alone his whole life." That has absolutely nothing to do with his skill with a sword, or any other weapon.
Con also has yet to address how Tempest (and other beings of air) can be negated by any attack by Nico, nor has she properly explained how Nico would be able to handle the electrical shocks created by Jason. Con also has not fully addressed the issue that Jason could simply disperse Nico's army, instead of simply defeating it, to kill Nico. Con also has not addressed Jason's use of other long range weapons, such as a javelin, which can be thrown with high accuracy by Jason towards Nico.
With that, I pass the floor back to you, Con.
http://camphalfblood.wikia.com... (See: Son of Neptune paragraph)
You then state that You said that Jason doesn't have to fly the whole fight, but what will he do once on the ground? Lets say he disperses the army enough just to get to Nico, he then has to go to hand to hand combat and flawlessly defeat Nico.( Not to mention that Nico is quite skilled with a sword as it mentions in the titans curse.)Jason has to do all of this before the army recooporates.
You then said that i have misinterpreted Nico's abilities. He can only control monsters. This is false, if he is able to summon it from the underworld then he'll be able to control it. May i ask when it said that Jason can summon storm spirits?
You then state that storm spirits are far more destructive and are very hard to hit if not impossible to hit. This is false because in the lost hero Jason defeated the storm spirits, also the storm spirits would be useless against Nico because his sword would scare away the storm spirits. Just like you said in round 2 of the argument Tempest would be useless against Nico because Nico's blade would scare Tempest.
Once again you state that Nico's swordmanship doesn't need to be good because his sword is so lethal, just because he doesn,t need to be good with a sword doesn,t mean he isn't good with one.
You then state that Nico being a lone his whole life doesn't have to deal with is skill in battle, but it does. Heres how, When Nico is alone he has to fight monsters all of the time ( considering he one of the big 3), this adds to his combat skills because he has to fight 24/7.
You also stated that Jason is well at 1v1 combat and i have to say this is also false. Once again you bring up him defeating Krios, he didn't defeat Krios by himself, he had the help of camp to defeat him. Also it states him wearing out extremely fast from using his powers witch is proof that Jason isn't good for 1v1 combat.
Also stated in you debate is Jason's experience with a sword. Although Jason is good with a sword, he was trained to work in a group, without a group Jason's training can only take him so far in solo abilities.
Lastly you state that i have not yet answered how would Nico deal with Tempest and how would he deal with the electrical shock. You said in round 2 of the debate that tempest would be useless against Nico because of his stygion blade. Jason using electricity can harm himself, and also Nico can simply dodge the electrical shock as well as the javelin. Also using lightning drains Jason extremely quick. So this would be practically useless.
I,m very anxious to see con's next argument.
There is no evidence presented that adequately shows that Jason would not be able to defeat Nico in time.
In Son of Neptune, Jason is revealed to have defeated Krios in single handed combat. Yes, he had his army to take Mount Othrys, but he single handedly defeated Krios.
Pro mentions that that Jason learned to fight in a group. While this is true, he is also able to fight effectively in a one on one scenario, as was explicitly detailed in his battle with Lityerses in The Lost Hero. With this, as well as his skill in multiple forms of weaponry, it's more than a match for Nico, who not only has less experience in fighting than Jason, but is also less likely to need much skill, due to the weapon that scares off monsters in the first place.
Nico cannot summon monsters from the Underworld; he can only summon undead warriors. Not only have I never read him (Nico) ever summoning anything other than undead warriors, but even a search through various Camp Half-Blood wikis and sites did nothing to convince me otherwise. On the other hand, Jason has called Tempest to him, which is one of many storm spirits out there. The book he did this in was Mark of Athena.
Yes, Jason could defeat the storm spirits in The Lost Hero; however, what Pro is unwilling to admit (or unknowing of) is the fact that he could only do so as a son of Jupiter, with this powers over the air. An equivalence would be, "Only Percy Jackson could defeat a wave, because of his powers over the water." However, we are not discussing Percy, so only take this as an analogy as to why Pro's reasoning for storm spirits being able to be defeated by Nico invalid.
Pro said that, "just because he doesn,t [sic] need to be good with a sword doesn,t [sic] mean he isn't good with one." This is an assumption, and has little to no proper evidence to back it up. Nowhere does it really show how good it is. All we have from the books are pieces of information like "[Nico] improving" as well as "keeping up in battle." However, due to his weapon's lethality, this does not immediately assume that Nico is as skilled a fighter as other characters in the series.
On Nico being alone all the time Pro said, "Heres how, When Nico is alone he has to fight monsters all of the time ( considering he one of the big 3), this adds to his combat skills because he has to fight 24/7." This is an assumption. We get no evidence that he has to fight monsters all of the time. After all, due to his sword scaring monsters and his ability to control them, one can also make the reasonable deduction that monsters are less likely to attack him (due to their fear of his blade), and the ones that do come after him can be defeated easily because of his extremely lethal blade. In regards to fighting 24/7, it is shown in the other books regarding other heroes (such as Thalia, who is the daughter of Zeus, one of the "Big Three") that monsters do not attack them nearly as much as 24/7. Therefore, Pro's points here is false.
I have not yet seen evidence of Jason not being able to be good in single combat, while providing evidence that point out otherwise. An explicit example is in The Lost Hero, in which Jason single handedly defeated Lityerses. An example in which his skill in single handed combat was mentioned in Son of Neptune, where it is revealed that Jason defeated the Titan Krios by himself. What Pro seems to misunderstand is that his team, or army, helped him fight Mount Othrys, but Jason defeated the Titan Krios by himself.
Pro then made the dubious statement that, "Also it states him wearing out extremely fast from using his powers witch [sic] is proof that Jason isn't good for 1v1 combat." I find this confusing, because Jason does not need to use his powers all the time, and he often opts to fight without using his powers at first, so the rate of which his powers affect him (which, according to the books, affects him less than Nico's powers do) would not affect his fighting skill.
I did no such mention of Tempest being useless against Nico's blade; I said that Nico's blade could not affect Tempest, as he (Tempest) was essentially air. Jason is immune to electricity, except when he channels the current through his weapon. Otherwise, he has immunity enough to not be hurt by a bolt that can kill twenty men. Nico, however, does not have this immunity.
While Nico could dodge the javelin, it is unlikely that he would be able to dodge a bolt of electricity. Even though demi gods have enhanced reflexes, electricity still moves far faster than any movement they could do. Following that, as Pro loves to make assumptions regarding what Nico would do, what's there to stop Tempest from distracting Nico as Jason throws the javelin at him (Nico), effectively stopping Nico from properly dodging?
Just because lightning drains Jason faster than his power over the air, does not make it "practically useless", as Pro states. After all, all it would take is one lightning strike to hit, and Nico has not been shown in any of the books to be able to move faster than electricity.
As I have made my case throughout this debate, Jason has far superior skills, and everything that Nico has that would otherwise be effective are easily countered by Jason.
With that, I pass my argument back to Pro.
Your only real defense is that Jason has better skills with swords and other weapons. I'll admit that Jason has better weapons skills although it only takes Nico ONE slash, or cut to defeat Jason. ( So there basically tied in that asset)
You state that Jason can just disperse the army, this does not get rid of them. So while Jason is in 1v1 combat, he still hasn't defeated the undead army that Nico has summoned. You deny Nico's fighting abilities. On wikipedia it says exactly this " In The Last Olympian, Nico fights in the Battle of Manhattan, and emerges unscathed, implying excellent fighting skills. In The Son of Neptune, Hazel mentions being impressed the first time she saw him fight, suggesting that he honed his skills between the two series, possibly during his stays at either Camp Half-Blood or Camp Jupiter. Nico was even able to fight Gaea's army in Tartarus itself, though he was overwhelmed by their sheer.Later, he even fought the Titan Iapetus alongside Percy and Thalia.
You say that Jason is able to summon nearby storm spirits, who says they won't harm him as well as he had to tame tempest for him to be loyal to Jason, but in my eyes any storm spirit would be useless against Nico himself because he radiates fear as well as his sword. The storm spirits would be way to scared to engage combat and Jason himself would probably start to develop fear even though he has trained otherwise.
Also is clearly states this on half blood wiki "Nico is an extremely powerful demigod. He is considerably more trained in using his powers than most children of the Big Three, such as Thalia and Percy, due to his time spent in the Underworld and he states that he trains with the dead. In The Son of Neptune, Hazel stated Nico was the most powerful demigod she'd ever seen, an impressive admiration given that she knew Jason Grace and dozens of other demigods."
You then stated in round 2 of the argument that shadow travel would be basically useless. I looked on half blood wiki and it says exactly this." He can use shadows as a way of transportation, however, GREAT DISTANCES tend to wear him out." So shadow travel can be quite useful.
I have no other arguments and am excited for the end of this debate, for a first debate con has given me a run for my money. Thank you for this exciting debate.
Pro said that I am failing to look at the aftermath of the battle. However, we are not discussing the aftermath of the battle. Jason could very well be defeated by Nico's undead army after defeating Nico, but the army could very well just fall down motionless, robbed of power. Either case could happen, and in all honesty, it does not matter in this debate because in both of those scenarios, Jason would still have defeated Nico, which is what this debate is trying to establish.
You're only assuming that it's impossible for Jason to do all of that; I can make the counter claim that it should be impossible for Jason, a demi god, to defeat Krios, a Titan. However, that is exactly what happened. This assumption by Pro can be ignored, as it still does not provide any proper evidence as to why it would be impossible.
Jason's skill in many forms of weaponry is not my only defense. In previous rounds, I have already made the argument that not only does Jason have superior fighting skills, but he also has powers that would negate Nico's powers. As a reminder, his ability to fly would negate Nico's ability to create earthquakes, and his ability to create gusts of wind powerful enough to topple a giant would easily disperse the small army of undead soldiers (twenty of them, as mentioned by Pro) summoned by Nico.
Yes, Jason has not defeated Nico's army. However, as I said multiple times, Jason does not have to. All Jason has to do is defeat Nico, which I have sufficiently explained that he is more than capable of doing.
None of those excerpts show any direct evidence for his skill being able to surpass Jason's. Nowhere did I make mention of Nico's lack of ability in combat; I merely said that he is not as good as Jason, and that all evidence given thus far does not show that he is at Jason's level of experience or even skill of fighting. Regarding his improvement noted by Hazel in Son of Neptune, it still gives no conclusive evidence that his skills can rival Jason's. As an example, we can compare Jason with that of a black belt, while Nico is more similar to a student who improved from a white belt to a red belt; while his (Nico's) skills are honed, and being a red belt in a martial art still makes him a formidable opponent, a black belt would still be a much more skilled fighter.
On top of that, as I have said over and over again, Nico does not need much skill in fighting against monsters. To paraphrase from my earlier posts, this is because of two things:
1) The monsters fear his sword, and thus would be more reluctant to attack him.
2) His sword requires only one cut to kill monsters.
Both of these would result in Nico requiring less skill to survive in the same conditions as other heroes, such as Percy, Annabeth or Jason. Not only that, Jason is skilled enough to be able to adapt his fighting style depending on his opponent. This is explicitly shown in his battle against Lityerses.
I did not say that Jason would be able to summon storm spirits; I merely said that if Nico was able to suddenly gain the ability to summon monsters, Jason should then be able to summon any storm spirit, simply because he has been shown to be able to summon Tempest.
Simply because you don't believe it, does not necessarily make it so; Nico's sword scares monsters, and as storm spirits are beings made of air, it is undetermined as to how much of an effect, if any, it would have on them. The blade also only creates fear in monsters, so on Jason himself, it should have little to no effect.
Nico is said to have trained the most in comparison to most of the "Big Three" demi gods, due to his stay in the Underworld. However, he has not shown how much better he is in controlling his powers. Due to that, we can only go by what has happened in the books, instead of making our own assumptions.
While Nico may have more sheer power than Jason, that does not necessarily mean that he (Nico) would win, as it takes also takes skill to win a battle. For example, a bazooka is arguably more powerful than a rifle. However, a person with a rifle could still defeat the person with a bazooka, if he (the rifleman) were more skilled in using his weapon effectively. While power is still important, superior skill is far more important in deciding the outcome of a battle.
Pro makes mention of Nico using Shadow Travel, but does not devise a way that this could be useful enough to convulsively defeat Jason, effectively making this point moot.
I have refuted the arguments presented by Pro, and effectively argued my reasons as to why, in a battle between Jason Grace, son of Jupiter, and Nico di Angelo, son of Hades, Jason Grace would ultimately end victorious.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by jarret 3 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: I dunno. pretty even
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