The Instigator
OlinB
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
Chrion
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Ninja are better than pirates

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
OlinB
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/22/2014 Category: Funny
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 747 times Debate No: 62132
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

OlinB

Pro

First of all, please do not use specific stories as part of your argument, we are looking at the cultural impact, as well how well they would fair in combat situations against each other. Let's keep it classy.
First off, weapons. A katana, the main weapon of ninjas, have the range and slicing capacity to easily win against a sabre-wielding pirate. It also has the technical advantage over a broadsword or rapier; the broadsword is quite heavy and the hilt of a rapier can make it difficult to swing in ways that can easily block the strikes of a katana. The pistols of pirates can be matched by throwing stars; although throwing stars are not as powerful as a gun, with enough training, they can be equally as easy to wield, or even easier. They are also much quieter, so they don't alert the rest of the crew.
Chrion

Con

Even tho pirates may not have the training of a ninja they are still deadly. If were talking about the more classical pirate then were talking about someone like Blackbeard. A captain and his crew have a ship with cannons and guns, if the ninja is in a opposing ship he may not stand a chance (assuming he is with other ninjas who usually don't use ships that much in combat). In a fighting situation on an island or on land the ninja or ninjas may have a greater chance against a pirate because they attack with a surprise. However in a fight on a ship the pirates have a huge advantage, pirates use a blunderbuss a old version of a shotgun, you don't need to be accurate all you need to do is point and shoot. Also the pirate may carry more than one gun he/she could have 2-4 guns (pistols) on him including a blunderbuss in his hand. In another situation on the deck of a ship the shear number of pirates versus the one ninja would be too much for the ninja to handle (assuming he is alone). If it is a single pirate versus one ninja on land and the pirate sees the ninja it is hard to tell who wins, in a 1v1 situation like that the reason why someone wins is because either the ninja is more skilled than the pirate or vice versa. Finally if we are talking about modern day pirates like Somali pirates it's a whole new ball game. Somali pirates have lmg's, modern day assault rifles, explosives, bullet proof vests, motion detectors and so much more technology than the ninja has. If in any encounter a ninja appears near anyone of them the ninja is dead because their technology can help the pirates find the ninja and take him out. In the end both characters are pretty cool in the way they fight and live, but pirates have the upper hand in a situation that occurs on any ship ( a fight that occurs on the deck of a ship), naval fights ( ocean or sea naval battles), and if they know where the ninja is the ninja loses his element of surprise and has to survive on dodging bullets and having a lot of skill as well as luck (not all ninjas were trained to "dodge" bullets).
Debate Round No. 1
OlinB

Pro

While modern day pirates may have the technical advance with radars, part of a ninja's training in the discipline of ninjutsu is 火"220;"899; (literally translating to "gunpowder") is the art of pyrotechnics and explosions, as well 燧人 (water training) if necessary, a ninja could swim up to a ship, ( it would be nearly impossible to hit a ninja in the water with a blunderbuss or cannon, and in their navy blue shinobi robes [ which are only rumor to be black ] it would be very difficult to even see them, depending on the depth of the water and/or amount of sunlight) trigger an explosion, and swim away before the pirates even know what hit them. This would be especially effective at night, when everyone is sleeping, as the may not be able to escape before the boat capsizes / sinks completely.
Chrion

Con

You make a good point about the training of pyrotechnics and water training for ninjas. However there is a flaw in your idea of a ninja planting a bomb, if a ninja is planting a bomb based on gunpowder after swimming the powder is wet. The gunpowder would not explode if you lit it , you could assume its some kind of fire/napalm like weapon but how does a ninja have the ability of creating fire when swimming through water. Another answer could be the ninja somehow creates fire to set off the charge however the boat is wet, so the ninja uses oil to light the fire the other problem is the pirates on guard notice a huge portion of the ship is on fire and people evacuate. If this is a Somali pirate boat the explosive may not break the hull if it is reinforced, also Somali pirates are as cautious as regular pirates which means they have guards on the boat and around the boat because they are "paranoid" about people killing them. A problem with explosives I forgot to mention is, if the gunpowder is carried to the boat and is dry how much did the ninja bring? To break a boat or make a big hole you need quite a bit of gunpowder, its not C4, you need barrels of the stuff to blow a large hole in a frigate. A second problem is if the ninja brings barrels of gun powder to the boat that is noticeable and pirates would see it, and if the charge is set off it makes a loud noise and when pirates hear a loud noise they expect trouble and they are prepared to get up and react quick to the problem at hand. Again if these are Somali pirates several huge barrels floating towards them are noticeable and they will take action in getting rid of them safely, they have much better detection of moving objects in water with radar then 15th century pirates do. One final reason why a bomb isn't the best option is even if the bomb blows a huge hole in the ship the pirates on watch alert the sleeping pirates and they swim off the ship. Also if you want to know what a pirate would do to destroy a ship he would do some different things. For the old 15th century pirates they would attack the ship with cannons, and on the opposite side of the ship send small rowboats filled with one man and and barrels of gunpowder to the boat and light the fuse with flint and steel (or something dry that makes fire, not a torch) and the man jumps off and swims away. Since pirates do this pirates could expect a similar plan from the ninjas and stop it before their boat blows up. Somali pirates have access the waterproof guns, RPGs, mortars, C4, missile trackers (shoot a tracker on an object and the missile homes in on the tracker) and much more advanced technology, which gives them more options to blow ships up.
Debate Round No. 2
OlinB

Pro

With all due respect, you seem to be placing all your eggs in the Somalian pirate basket, however, the 10th part of Ninjutsu, 変#013;"899; (disguise and impersonation) At night, ninja could use the ladder of a ship or even a makibish tied to a rope to get onto the ship, slay a pirate using one of the many silent weapons in a ninja's arsenal and use the burka of the pirate to roam to ship without detection. There are many options from here; Get a machine gun and go crazy, find the C4, mortars etc. that you mentioned and trigger them. Better yet, combine the two for ultimate destruction. You could also just wear a burka when boarding the ship to further decrease the chance of detection. They could also darken their skin to decrease the chance of detection.
I think it's apparent that ninjas are superior to pirates, as I have countered all of your main points.
Chrion

Con

I agree with the skill that ninjas have that they are very well trained in the art of being assassins. However in round 2 I very briefly mentioned Somali pirates, they were there as fillers, I am sorry if my transition of the skills of Somali pirates and 15th century pirates was unclear (I am a 14 year old I have much to learn in writing well), but my main point was blowing up a ship as a ninja or anybody (by ship I mean frigate) is loud and hard to do stealthy. As for the idea of running around crazy as a ninja with stolen C4 the ninja has very little idea on how to use them much less guns with a safety on them and magezines. The main point of the debate is to prove whether ninja are better than pirates. As far as I am concerned even with the ninja's skill of disguise people can easy detect when a person doesn't do something they would normally do ( a pirate who walks around the deck of a ship who doesn't talk or has a Asian accent is a little suspicious), also (I assume) you perceive pirates as more or less dumb or have no ability in realizing something is wrong. Pirates are people as well as ninjas, ninjas have several skills but in a confrontation it is almost impossible to tell who would win. I come back to what I said in round 1, "the reason why someone wins is because either the ninja is more skilled than the pirate or vice versa." It is impossible just based on possible facts that apply to all ninjas or pirates in what would happen unless you take in to account specific people with the skills we have talked about. The reason why I haven't done so is because you mentioned in round 1 to leave specific arguments out. So if you always assume ninja successfully in kill their opponent with stealth and silent weapons and become undetectable they appear to only achieve kills with surprise. Pirates are then superior to ninja because they expect to fight out in the open against a Spanish frigate, on the deck of a boat, or on land. Since ninjas always do stealth kills successfully Pirates have the skill of always killing opponents immediately when detected, and the chance of them doing so is very high considering they have enough flintlock guns to kill 5 people on them all the time. Finally if you assume when you created the debate if ninja are better then pirates, you meant that in every possible combat situation pirates ( 15th century pirates) have a higher chance of winning because of their flexibility in the way they fight.

Anyway I just want to say it was fun debating with you regardless of whether I'm right or you are, it was fun debating about an interesting topic with another equally brilliant person on my first debate on this website, and so I bid you good day. -Jonathan
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 3 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
Look at the message I sent u
Posted by dynamicduodebaters 3 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
So about those debates"
Posted by Chrion 3 years ago
Chrion
Ok thanks for clearing that up.
Posted by OlinB 3 years ago
OlinB
...and it continues to glitch. I meant Hens!3;jutsu.
Posted by OlinB 3 years ago
OlinB
Sorry, in round 2, my Kanji glitched, I meant 変#013;"899;
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 3 years ago
9spaceking
OlinBChrionTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: pro showed ninja have many skills, including fire, water, disguising, throwing stars, and their cool codes in addition to stealth, making an inevitable victory against the pirates.
Vote Placed by FaustianJustice 3 years ago
FaustianJustice
OlinBChrionTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: By indication of specific disciplines only.