The Instigator
tenjusato
Pro (for)
Winning
54 Points
The Contender
Mangani
Con (against)
Losing
52 Points

No body really deserves arbitrary respect.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/31/2007 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,181 times Debate No: 1216
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (9)
Votes (23)

 

tenjusato

Pro

People always say that everyone deserves the utmost respect. When someone speaks in class to present their work, it is a given that they get respect. Teachers always tell their students to treat each other with respect. Yet if every one gave and in return got respect, what is the merit of even having it. Like money and power, respect is something people earn rather than deserve. It is apparent that today's society has grown so sensitive that criticism is often misconstrued as an insult. Many times too much respect is handed out to people who don't deserve it. Sometimes people need to stop being politically correct and express their honest thoughts. Why should a poorly made, uninteresting, and uninformative presentation in class get the respect of its audience? Why can�??t the students comment on how bad something is if they see major flaws in it? Chances are the presentation wasn't made with much effort and the presenter probably is better to experience failure instead to getting the feeling that a lacking effort can sufficient. There is no plausible reason for anyone to "have" to give respect to anything. If somebody doesn't respect the fact that another person is of a different race, so be it. It is their loss to exclude the rich culture of others but in no way should that be "offensive." Students should also never be forced to respect their teachers. Why can't the teachers instead build up respect from their students through interesting and informative lesson plans that make the students want to learn? There is also another conscious that the elderly deserve respect. Yet many elderly citizens are just as immature and ignorant as the rest. If any one deserves respect without action, it is children who show no fear of questioning society and give respect only when they feel like it.
Mangani

Con

The problem with this argument is how you define arbitrary respect. Since you did not define it in your own terms I will use this definition:

arbitrary- subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion

respect- deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or courtesy; acknowledgment

Besides the actual subject of your premise you stated "nobody really deserves"... So if I wanted to I can actually attack this argument on the premise that you don't have the authority over everyone to say "nobody" deserves "arbitrary" respect- which is respect at one's individual discretion.

I can even use a different definition to point out a possible contradiction in the statement "nobody DESERVES arbitrary RESPECT". The Army definition for respect is "treat people as they deserve to be treated". How people "deserve" to be treated can be defined in many ways, but given a set standard of morals there is a definite standard in society for how people should be treated.

Unless you were born without the knowledge of right and wrong, compassion for your fellow human beings, and the logic to apply knowledge and compassion, then you can't possibly say "nobody" deserves "arbitrary" respect. Even your invalid arguments contain an acknowledgement that "If any one deserves respect without action, it is children who show no fear of questioning society and give respect only when they feel like it." Thus admitting that your premise is wrong.

Your arguments for demanding that people "build" respect is a request for respect- a very hypocritical philosophy to have. The mere fact that a person you are approaching is a human being is a reason to have some kind of respect for that person. I doubt you would actually put your arguments into effect and walk around arbitrarily DISrespecting people, but here we are on this website debating it so you can be as "tough" as you'd like.

None of what you said is an argument for "nobody really deserves arbitrary respect". You have named situations in which you feel someone might not deserve the respect someone else requires from you, but you nonetheless showed one person or another respect in all those situations. You are griping, and you are complaining, and you have every right to do so- but the fact that you are upset because you feel some people don't deserve arbitrary respect does not prove that "nobody deserves arbitrary respect".
Debate Round No. 1
tenjusato

Pro

Well first of all I should have defined arbitrary respect. I think its when people gain respect because of status. For instance there seems to be a lot of people who demand respect just because they are in the army. I don't think its wrong for people to not respect people in the army based on their beliefs. I'm not sure that we are debating the same thing but thats how I feel about it. I also think people who are of a religious faith also demand a respect that is not deserved. What I'm saying is that people should be judged on their beliefs and it shouldn't be taboo to disrespect what you think is wrong, like religion or army, but people cannot do so because of the preconceived notion that these organizations are sacred and should be respected no matter what they do.
Mangani

Con

Let me remind you of a few comments you made in round one, and I will tell you how no matter what your definition is you are wrong. Furthermore, you will never act on your arguments. I would like to see you disregard the commands of a police officer who is showing you respect just because you don't "feel" he has "deserved" your respect...

"Yet if every one gave and in return got respect, what is the merit of even having it."

-If you did not give or receive respect in this case wouldn't you be the oddball? If everyone in class agrees to respect each other, and you do not wish to participate you are being a rebel without a cause. Rebels are usually people who feel they don't get the respect they deserve... yet you are complaining about getting resepect you have not earned. Seems like someone might have a psychological issue here, and not an actual debate...

"Like money and power, respect is something people earn rather than deserve."

-Money and power is not always earned, rather sometimes it is taken. Many people in positions of power have attained that power through non-conventional means. You can't lump respect with money and power because money and power are not essential to harmony in society- respect is.

"It is apparent that today's society has grown so sensitive that criticism is often misconstrued as an insult."

-You have not given any examples in which criticism is "misconstrued" as an insult. Oftentimes it is the person insulted that points out that the criticism was insulting in the first place, and it is the person insulting who claims it was not an insult. Mutual respect prevents us from acting like animals on these occaisions. Actually, even animals have mutual respect.

"Many times too much respect is handed out to people who don't deserve it."

-The amount of respect one receives is determinant on the person or persons "handing out" that respect. It is up to these people to decide whether or not this person deserves the amount of respect they are shown. You cannot decide for others how much respect they should or shouldn't show a particular person. The respect someone receives from another person is always the respect they deserve- it is the DISrespect that is often not deserved.

"Sometimes people need to stop being politically correct and express their honest thoughts."

-Being politically correct doesn't mean keeping your mouth shut. Oftentimes it is the people complaining about political correctness that lack tact and respect for others, ie. when Don Imus called the Rutgers basketball team "nappy ho's" and referred to them as "jiggaboos".

"Why should a poorly made, uninteresting, and uninformative presentation in class get the respect of its audience?"

-Why should a poorly made, uninteresting, and uninformative presentation in class NOT receive your respect? Are you so interesting, informative, and superior that you feel YOU deserve all the respect in class? If you do, then you have conflict with your own premise (I have already pointed this out, but you ignored ALL my arguments).

"Chances are the presentation wasn't made with much effort and the presenter probably is better to experience failure instead to getting the feeling that a lacking effort can sufficient."

-Do you realize how poorly this sentence is written? Examples: "the presenter probably is better to experience"; "better to experience failure instead to getting"; "feeling that a lacking effort can sufficient"...??? What??? Is this the guy that is supposed to judge the quality of other students' presentations? What respect have you earned in class with your very poor penmanship??? Shouldn't you strive for the respect you demand rather than venting in a debate in which your existence contradicts the premise?

"There is no plausible reason for anyone to "have" to give respect to anything."

-You are absolutely right. Noone "has" to respect ANYTHING. But respect is the natural order of things in this world and in this society. Unless you are beneath rats in intelligence- rats may not be "afraid" of people, but they "respect" the fact that people are BIGGER, and may not run when you are close, but will run when you come within a distance where they may feel threatened. A mongoose can kill a King Cobra- one of the largest poisonous snakes in the world, but the mongoose "respects" the cobra and it's ability to poison the mongoose. Even cops respect criminals to some degree- they handcuff them. If cops had no respect for the ability of a criminal to injure them, they wouldn't cuff 'em.

"Students should also never be forced to respect their teachers."

-I have been out of school for a while so I may be misinformed, but I did go to school in a "shady" part of town. NEVER did I observe a student being "forced" to respect a teacher. Common sense dictates respect for teachers. If you know everything there is to know, then by all meanse be disrespectful, however, the mere fact that you refer to "teachers" as teachers is a sign of respect for their profession. Again, you contradict yourself.

Now let's move on to your new statements:

"I think its when people gain respect because of status."

-That is not arbitrary respect, that is respect of status or position.

"For instance there seems to be a lot of people who demand respect just because they are in the army."

-I was in the Army. I never "demanded" respect from anyone, rather I expected respect because I treated everyone with the utmost respect. If I was ever disrespected, I still maintained my composure and showed respect. Can you give examples of when "a lot of people" have demanded "respect just because they are in the Army"?

"I don't think its wrong for people to not respect people in the army based on their beliefs."

-You may not think it is wrong, but it is impractical. When have you encountered Army personnel? If it was on an Army base then you are in THEIR home. If it was in public they probably showed YOU respect in the first place!

"I'm not sure that we are debating the same thing but thats how I feel about it."

-If we are not debating the same thing it is because you are unsure of what exactly you wanted to debate.

"I also think people who are of a religious faith also demand a respect that is not deserved."

-Again, they do not "demand" respect, rather they expect it because they show it. Noone asks you to call a priest "father", but if he addresses you as "sir" why not return the respect? Everyone adheres to SOME belief system, and to disrespect clergy on the simple basis that you don't feel they have deserved your respect is ridiculous and anti-social behavior.

"What I'm saying is that people should be judged on their beliefs"

-Really? Interesting... this is called a bigot.

"people cannot do so because of the preconceived notion that these organizations are sacred "

-In other words, it is impractical to not show respect because society accepts that everyone deserves respect. You don't have a premise, rather a beef with society and it's norms. Again, this is anti-social behavior and you may need to be examined by a professional... or an amateur... who really cares right? I mean, why would you show a guy with a PHD any more respect than a guy with a High School diploma right? I mean a guy with a HS diploma can give good advice too! 'rolls eyes'
Debate Round No. 2
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
Look, a soldier deserves respect BECAUSE a soldier by law HAS to show respect. A soldier who is disrespectful to the point of breaking the law is liable to punishment, and this STILL does not wipe him/her of his/her respect. Now look, I know I have no literal "authority" in saying they deserve the respect on the mere fact of being a soldier, but understanding that soldiers live by a code and respect that code- even the ones who have been stripped of their rank and are incarcerated under military law. There are soldiers who do violate this code, but even as criminals they are treated with human respect. Even animals follow a respect code. It's a carnal instinct, and a nunerically statistical fact that respect preserves the fabric of every free society.
Posted by tenjusato 9 years ago
tenjusato
again a soldier only deserves respect if he acts like a professional member of the army not for joining it. I respect you for your opinin but that doesn't mena you derserve it instead you earned it.
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
You do talk a big game by saying you would not show a soldier respect just for being a soldier. Given the fact that a soldier in uniform by law is to be respectful it is only fair that he in turn is afforded respect. As for your definitions of respect, as I stated in our debate "arbitrary respect" is up to the discretion of the person giving it, and therefore you are completely wrong.

The Pope and President may not deserve your respect as people- or the Pope as a religious figure, but they deserve respect as grown men.
Posted by tenjusato 9 years ago
tenjusato
Oh and by the way i do respect a lot of people because of their achievements. but i also don't respect a lot of people even if they have achieved quote on quote "great things" such as the pope and George Bush.
Posted by tenjusato 9 years ago
tenjusato
lol when did i talk "a big game" i was only expressing my ideas. plus i never said noone deserves respect, i only said no one deserves arbitrary respect. You know stuff like u should always respect ur parents. It true most of the time but sometimes its not, thats all i'm saying.
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
I am being hypocritical by disrespecting someone who doesn't believe people in general should be respected on the merits of being human, or for their achievments which may be manifested in some sort of title? I don't believe I disrespected you, rather I have spoken to you as you make yourself out to feel about other people. Funny how you talk a big game but when you feel disrespected now you want to complain about it...
Posted by tenjusato 9 years ago
tenjusato
wow thanks for being more than disrepectful in this debate it really proves my point and shows how hypocritical you are.
Posted by Mangani 9 years ago
Mangani
Of course. That is the essence of "innocent until proven guilty". As humans we are taught to give people the benefit of the doubt, not the condemnation of it.
Posted by spencetheguy 9 years ago
spencetheguy
we should assume that people derserve respect but that can change.
23 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro simply asserted, Con actually presented an argument.
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