The Instigator
espnfan54
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Skynet
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

No evidence a god exists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 866 times Debate No: 21230
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

espnfan54

Pro

I challenge anyone to provide a single piece of evidence for the existence of a god.
Skynet

Con

Thank you for putting forward this debate. I contend there is evidence for the existence of a god.

I submit, as evidence, the testimonies:

OF the Apostle John, who shared in the ministry of Jesus of Nazereth, the Christ, incarnate God, as written in the Gospel of John.

of Moses the Prophet who led Israel out of Egypt, and who saw the back of God as he passed by Moses while in the cleft of the mountain, and spoke with God face to face. [1]

of the Prophet Isaiah who was mocked for warning of the coming destruction of Jerusalem at the hand of King Nebuchadnezer of Babylon in 586 B.C. [2]

of the Prophet Jeremiah who was scorned, beaten, imprisoned, and left for dead for the same. [4]

of King Nebuchadnezer of Babylon, who God rebuked and later restored. [5]

of numerous eye-witnesses of Christ and work of the Holy Spirit in the early church, as investigated and compiled by the Greek physician Luke. [3]

of my Uncle, who grew up in the infamous Artane Boy's School in Dublin, Ireland. He travelled every continent but South America and Antarctica searching for truth. He tried Islam, Catholism, Budhism, Hinduism, and only found truth in Christianity.

of the martyrs of Foxes Book of Martyrs, who held to thier testimony even through torture and even to death. [6]

of myself, who has seen God change hearts, including my own.

Our testimonies agree, and add up to an overwhelming body of evidence.


1 Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers
2 The Book of Isaiah
3 The Gospel According to Luke, Luke 1:1-4, The Acts of the Apostles (Book of Acts)
4 The Book of Jeremiah
5 Daniel ch. 4
6 http://www.ccel.org...
Debate Round No. 1
espnfan54

Pro

All you did was preach. You first must provide justification for the bible and give reasons why someone should believe what the bible says. You provided a testimony about your family member trying every religion and Christianity happens to be the right one. The reason your arguments so far don't work is because a person of any religion could quote part of their holy text and say they tried every religion but theirs only worked so that's proof of the god of their religion. There are martyrs of Christianity and martyrs of Islam so this doesn't work. This may be evidence for you, but it's not evidence a god exists.
Skynet

Con


"No evidence [of] a god exists"

I have presented evidence that would be accepted in court, that is, witness testimony.

Evidence [1]
noun, verb, -denced, -denc·ing.
noun
1.
that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2.
something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3.
Law . data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

I have presented testimony of many witnesses, many records, and documents as evidence. These are grounds for belief.

I have negated Pro's resolution by presenting much more than a single piece of evidence of God's existence.

"All you did was preach."

Preach
verb
(used with object)
1.
to proclaim or make known by sermon (the gospel, good tidings, etc.).
2.
to deliver (a sermon).
3.
to advocate or inculcate (religious or moral truth, right conduct, etc.) in speech or writing.
verb (used without object)
4.
to deliver a sermon.
5.
to give earnest advice, as on religious or moral subjects or the like.
6.
to do this in an obtrusive or tedious way.

I think I did. (except for the obtrusive part (he asked for it) and the tedious part (that's subjective)) My opponent seems to think that no sermon can contain valid evidence. However, testimony of witnesses, documents, records, and objects used to provide evidence are common in sermons. If I preach, that does not mean I didn't provide evidence.

"You first must provide justification for the bible and give reasons why someone should believe what the bible says."

How is justification and reason provided? Through evidence. Testimony is accepted as evidence by courts of law, legislative bodies, financial institutions, and in personal conversation with friends. "What did they say?" "What did you find out?" My opponent charges that evidence must be presented before evidence is given.

Just because someone does not believe evidence does make it invalid. It is pertinent to the point, and supports my case, whether the opposition likes it or not. An attorney cannot insist that the judge or jury throw out his opponent's evidence because it does not convince him.

"The reason your arguments so far don't work is because a person of any religion could quote part of their holy text and say they tried every religion but theirs only worked so that's proof of the god of their religion."

And as long as their quote was pertinent to the point, it would be evidence. Whether I believe their main point or not. If they claimed a single passage as proof, that's another story.

Proof
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law . (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.

You never demanded proof, or totally equated evidence with proof. They are not neccessarily synonyms. I have presented enough evidence to meet the burden of proof of millions of converts over millenia of change.


"This may be evidence for you, but it's not evidence a god exists."


My opponent says evidence is a personal thing. It is not. Judgement is personal, based on all evidence presented. Evidence exists whether it supports one's view, whether one agrees or likes it, or not. There is evidence for things I do not believe, but all available evidence must be taken into account. Whatever is most likely is what should be judged as true.

"There are martyrs of Christianity and martyrs of Islam so this doesn't work."

Muslim martyrs don't usually stand up against scutiny and torture when they are martyred. They kill others for what they believe, and take themselves with thier victims. Not many good opportunities to recant there.
Christian martyrs are often the victims of Muslim martyrs. (Amongst other opponents) If you look at Foxe's Book, you will see they are given many chances and incentive to recant, but don't because the body of evidence they know for and against God is great enough in God's favor that they hold to thier belief through torture and death.

I have presented evidence that God exists, whether he agrees with the conclusions that evidence has led me to or not.

All definitions from Dictionary.com
Debate Round No. 2
espnfan54

Pro

Faith- 1. Confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another'sability.
2. Belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that thehypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
"I have presented evidence that would be accepted in court, that is, witness testimony."
This is false. Courts require scientific evidence for evidence and may use eye witness testimony sometimes in order to make the court pick their side. If we were in court, you may use testimony but than you would need to prove a god exists with scientific evidence since you haven't provided any evidence.
Anecdotal evidence (http://dictionary.reference.com...)
Main Entry: anecdotal evidence
Part of Speech: n
Definition: non-scientific observations or studies, which do not provide proof but may assist research efforts
My opponent says: "If I preach, that does not mean I didn't provide evidence."
I told my opponent I would consider the bible if he presented justification for the bible yet provided no evidence.
My opponent also says testimony is evidence when testimony is just anecdotal evidence. By my opponent's logic, if someone said they were kidnapped by aliens and provided no evidence and just provided testimony, than by my opponent's argument, that would count as evidence.
A court needs scientific evidence in order to be convinced. Generally speaking, the law of evidence in both civil and criminal cases confines the testimony of witnesses to statements of concrete facts within their own observation, knowledge, and recollection. Testimony must normally state facts perceived by the witnesses' use of their own senses, as distinguished from their opinions, inferences, impressions, and conclusions drawn from the facts. Opinion testimony that is based on facts is usually considered incompetent and inadmissible, if the fact finders are as well qualified as the witness to draw conclusions from the facts. (legaldictionary.com)
The courts say in order for a testimony to be true, it must agree with what the scientific evidence is showing, my opponent just used opinion testimony. Christians have the burden of proof and my opponent has not met it.
To summarize my opponent's argument: You can say whatever you want and tell whatever you want and that it evidence. He ignores scientific evidence and claims this is proof a god exists when no solid evidence has been met. The courts say testimony is ok as long as you have scientific evidence backing what you're saying which my opponent has not included. My opponent has not provided a single piece of evidence a god exists.
Skynet

Con

My opponent asked for a single piece of evidence.
"I challenge anyone to provide a single piece of evidence for the existence of a god."

I provided testimony, which fits the definition of evidence. My opponent does not understand the difference between proof and evidence. Evidence builds up to proof. Evidence can be proof, but doesn't have to be.

"Some witness testimony could be described as anecdotal evidence, such as individual stories of harassment as part of a class action lawsuit."[1]

Even if the testimony I presented is anecdotal evidence, it is evidence, which is what my opponent demanded. He never specified scientific evidence until the third round. I have won the debate by presenting evidence of God.

"Testimony must normally state facts perceived by the witnesses' use of their own senses, as distinguished from their opinions, inferences, impressions, and conclusions drawn from the facts."

The testimony that I presented are facts percieved by the witnesses use of thier own senses. Jesus spoke to John, Luke interviewed eye-witnesses and family members. Moses spoke with God face to face. Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Nebuchadnezer spoke with and saw signs from God. They are not opinions just because you don't believe the testimony. The events they percieved with thier senses happened. Even if you don't believe they saw and heard what they say they did, thier actions afterward support thier accounts. All held to thier stories even to death. An opinion would be speculation on something that they couldn't even prove to themselves. Being that they saw the events with thier own eyes, that was proof enough to them that they could give testimony of the events, which is evidence. There is no speculation in the testimony I gave, it is presented as fact. My opponent does not seem to understand the definition of opinion, either.

1 http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
espnfan54

Pro

espnfan54 forfeited this round.
Skynet

Con

My opponent's account is no longer active. Why, I am unaware. My opponent challenged me to provide evidence for the existence of a god. I did so by presenting witness testimony, which is evidence in court. My opponent countered that I must prove the Bible is accurate for testimony to be considered evidence. Evidence does not have to be declared believable by the prosecution before the defense presents it, otherwise no defendant could ever win. I am disappointed that my opponent did not bother to look up terms (proof, evidence) before using them.

I met the challenge and effectively countered his point.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Mestari 5 years ago
Mestari
99.01% nac
Posted by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
Im Predicting a 99% chance the Con will win
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