The Instigator
Kelisitaan
Con (against)
The Contender
Bribri10114
Pro (for)

No race is smarter than any other race

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Debate Round Forfeited
Bribri10114 has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/28/2016 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 1,002 times Debate No: 98489
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (0)

 

Kelisitaan

Con

I will argue that certain races are smarter than others.

Examples of races: african american, white, asian, jewish, etc.

No new arguments in R4.
Bribri10114

Pro

Thank you for this topic and allowing a chance for me to debate! I will start with definitions and then move into arguments.

Race: a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.

Smarter: having or showing a quick-witted intelligence.

Since we have established that let me begin my argument.

A1: Intelligence is not inheritable
We as society tend to judge people by their skin color or religion, etc. We assume that "All blacks are dumber than whites" or "Asians are smarter than everybody." However, there are acceptations to the "rules" (Stereotypes). Ben Carson is black and one of the best neurosurgeons in the world. What's more, 20% of the Nobel Prize winners are Jews. Therefore one cannot assume that a race IS ALWAYS smarter than another. Moreover, a study by psychologist Robert Sternberg concluded that the skills and knowledge you have are the result of your family. **However, it is not a genetic relation, but rather, an educational one.** This proves that the intelligence level comes not from genetics, but rather from the level of education, the opportunities to spread this information, and the society you grow up in. No one, when two different children are born, can come up to you and tell you that child A is smarter than child B. Therefore, I find it illogical to assume that race can determine intelligence and "smartness". Asians tend to grow up in education drilling families and governments, where African Americans may not have this opportunity. Therefore, it may seem that a race or ethnicity's "smartness" exceeds that of another, however, as humans, if we were all provided the same environment to learn in, we would, more or less, have the same intelligence level. Then you can factor in work ethics and motivation, but assuming that one race is smarter than another is false, when it is not based off of genetics.

Thanks!

Source:
http://elitedaily.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Kelisitaan

Con

To say that intelligence isn't based off of genetics is simply false. Is intelligence based off of genetics entirely? No, of course not. Partially? Yes, intelligence is based partially off of genetics. Argument Debunked

http://www.news-medical.net...

Moreover, no one ever claimed there were black men who weren't smart, or that there were jews who weren't dumb. (Although I disagree on Ben Carson being really smart, but that's another debate.) This, however, is a conversation about races in general. You are creating a strawman; I never claimed that every black man was dumber than every jew.

Smart blacks are outliers, and dumb jews are outliers as well. Intelligence of race follows a statistical distribution . The mean IQ of a black american is 85, white american 100, etc. Argument Debunked
https://en.wikipedia.org...

The part about no one being able to determine the intelligence from a child is irrelevant. Just because humans can't determine that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Argument debunked.

Yes it is true that education level plays a part in intelligence; in fact, there are many factors to intelligence. However, genetics is one of these factors, and even if everything else were equal, blacks would still be dumber than asians.
Bribri10114

Pro

1Even if intelligence is "partially off of genetics", explain to me then why some people in a "dumber" race come out to be smarter than others? You don't like Ben Carson, then go with Neil Degrasse Tyson or Dr. Julianne Malveaux. These people who are supposedly and genetically "dumber than Asians" became more intelligent in their fields of study than other races. Explain to me how this is true if Blacks are genetically dumber than Asians. It's all in the amount of work they put in and the influences in society, not genetics. Oh and the site you sited in your last round, actually says that there were 3 critical studies that disproved or argued against the study (Robert Sternberg of Yale University, Richard Nisbett of the University of Michigan, and Lisa Suzuki & Joshua Aronson of New York University). So you can't look toward one piece of evidence as the end all be all. I'll give tons more if asked.

2. I am not creating a strawman, I literally just said society thinks this way, I never said you think this way. Think of it as an introduction to kind of lead into my argument. If I had only said that some blacks are smarter or some Jews are smarter, than yes I would be creating a strawman, but since I clearly pointed out it was societal thought, I did not commit a logical fallacy.

3. Wikipedia, very nice source :) Again, mean IQ doesn't tell me anything if you don't tell me when it was derived. For all you know it could have been produced when the people scored were 20 when they would have been fully influenced by education level, society, etc. Therefore this argument can't be weighed in the debate.

4. The Child A, Child B comparison is to prove that people don't know straight from the bat that A is smarter than B, therefore even if differences DO exist, you haven't proved that, therefore you can't claim genetics is the main reason for intelligence.

5. "If everything else were equal, blacks would still be dumber than asians." ==> Hasty Generalization Logical Fallacy
Debate Round No. 2
Kelisitaan

Con

1) People in a dumber race come out smarter because of a concept called variance. https://en.wikipedia.org...

And the critical studies actually state: ""Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause," write the authors" In other words, the "critical studies" agree that blacks are less intelligent; they are just arguing WHY this is the case. Since I claimed the statement all races are equally intelligent is false, why is not important. Argument debunked.

2) Only retards think this way. They too are incorrect in their thinking, just like you who thinks all races are equally intelligent. Both are flawed.

3) IQ is actually age adjusted; in other words, the lower your age, the higher the score you receive from the exact same test. You should research IQ more.

4) The evidence has pointed that way over and over and over again.

5) Incorrect. Here is why:

Moreover, it makes perfect sense that some races are smarter than others. After all, races evoloved in different areas. African americans evolved in africa, a hotter climate, where athletism was a favored trait. Asians evolved in asia, a colder and harsher climate, where intelligence is a favored trait. To survive in Africa, one needed speed and strength to be stronger and faster than the predators. However, in colder and harsher climates, intelligence is FAR more useful; to survive in the cold takes intelligence.

This explains why there are so many more black people in sports related careers. It's not because they got "lucky;" it's because they evolved in different environments and are therefore different than other races. Or are you now going to claim that all races are also equally athletic as well?

/Debate
Bribri10114

Pro

1. You never explain variance and how it applies to race and intelligence. Therefore I urge the judges to make him explain exactly how it works because all he did was attach a link to a Wikipedia page that barely explains anything.

2. All my opponent did was call me a retard in his attack. Do you really want to vote for a guy who doesn't have the self control to kindly and respectfully address his opponent? This is a debate not a beat down your opponents character.

3. IQ per the definition is the measurement of the capacity to learn not what you have learned and since you never refuted my argument about how intelligence is a measure of multitude of factors including how much you learned you cannot apply this argument. IQ also doesn't measure science strength, reading, writing, etc. And people with a strong adherence to these skills are also "smart" therefore IQ is not a good measurement for intelligence anyway.

4. What evidence? You say evidence points that way and give me 0 evidence. Judges, look at this argument of not knowing the intelligence of a child at birth as a way to vote for me.

5. You site no evidence for your argument here and moreover looks out of place (copied?) Remember my overarching argument is that people have the same level of intelligence they just have different levels of hard work and work ethic. THAT IS why they seem to have different "smartness levels" It's not that they are born smarter, but rather people in different environments don't get the same level of push and pull for intelligence.

Final word: Judges, I ask that when you vote you think about this: People all have a bowl of potential "smartness". The difference between "races" is that some exercise this potential more than others. That isn't a difference in intelligence, it's the difference in exercising potential due to hard work, work ethic, environment, and society. Therefore, it isn't that a race is smarter than another. It's all based off of individual hard work.
Debate Round No. 3
Kelisitaan

Con

Variance is a basic statistical concept. Clearly you haven't learned statistics, and the purpose of this debate isn't to teach you statistics. If you want to learn, I've given you the concepts to research. Variance's definition is right there, but since your reading comprehension is lacking...

Variance is a term to describe how far something is from the mean. For example, the mean IQ of blacks is 85. Are all IQs of blacks 85? No, obviously not. Some have higher IQs due to positive variance, some have lower IQs due to negative variance.

2) Lack of reading comprehension. I never called you a retard; you claimed that SOME people think that ALL blacks are stupid. I said that ANYONE who thinks that IS a retard. Since you don't think that, the statement didn't apply to you. You were creating a strawman and trying to argue that, when that was never an argument I made nor agreed with.

3) IQ correlates with intelligence; there is no more accurate way humans have to measure intelligence. However, if you understood statistics (which you clearly do not), you'd understand that having a test that correlates with intelligence, i.e. an IQ test, is able to be applied to large numbers of people and have that correlate as well.

In other words, although a specific person with an IQ of 85 MIGHT be smarter than someone with an IQ of 100, a race filled with millions of people with an average IQ of 85 will NOT be smarter than a race with an IQ of 100; it's a statistical impossibility based on the law of large numbers, confidence intervals, etc...basic statistics.

4) I gave you plenty of evidence: IQ, and my explanation below as well. The chances that ALL races are equal when their IQs vary so greatly is so close to 0 you have a better chance that the earth is flat.

5) It's basic logic and reasoning. Or are you going to debate that all races are of equal athletic ability as well? We have differences in races due to evolution. Very basic concept.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Bribri10114 1 year ago
Bribri10114
I was the only person in the whole school with straight 100s. This the teacher informed me of at the end of the year. Again, have you not thought about maybe, just maybe, I'm actually smart?

Here's something you're not a star at: explaining why.

Why do you think my biology knowledge is lackluster? You don't even tell me. Examples
Then you say that PhD means grade inflation? Again, only person able to accomplish that. I'm sure you went to a great school, who taught you all about how to insult and bully people instead of thinking more rationally. Then, how do you know I did not attend one of the best high schools in the nation? Did you assume that? Or is it because I get straight hundreds? Don't assume grade inflation, when, for all you know, I may be a genius or something.

Oh and big boy knows some nice words eh? Shitty? People like you are the kinds that shouldn't be allowed on debate sites, those who have been spoiled so much they don't know some basic manners. That says much about your self esteem.

Oh, but here is an example of maybe something that can be measured on a more national scale: perfect score on PSAT? I'm a sophomore so I don't have SAT ACT grades yet but maybe that will have some holding with you since obviously your rash assumptions and sense of self worth won't allow evidence from a "shitty public high"
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
Actually, first of all, if you have a 100% in AP biology, that means your school is severely grade inflated. Unlike you, I went to one of the top high schools in the nation. Out of a class of 25, maybe 2 people got As, and those were like 94-96%, certainly not 100%.

Furthermore, your understanding of biology is incredibly lackluster. Instead of basing your intelligence on your grade inflated grade from shitty public high, base it on what you know...which unfortunately is clearly not much.

And lol @ PhD meaning something...are people with PhDs somehow not grade inflaters? Clearly your example proves otherwise.

I never claimed it was all genetics; again, this shows a lack of reading comprehension.
Posted by Bribri10114 1 year ago
Bribri10114
I love how you just assume I'm stupid. I told you some of my academic accomplishments and instead of thinking maybe I just tried harder than you to get better grades, you say wow his classes must be low level. Mind you, I attend a school with the AP Biology teacher having a PhD, very lucky to have her.

Yah know, you never proved that statement about potential level. You said blacks have .05% to be a genius while Jews have a 3-4% chance. You know Jews attend schools where the library is full of lively conversation about studys? That's why they are more used to going in depth with ideas and really probing the root cause. This isn't innate skill and geniusness, it's intelligence that was molded from their education. So actually my argument, which I believe you still haven't refuted stands which is that all races have the same inborn intelligence potential, it's the further experiences in life that allow for smartness to develop. Same with athleticism and many other things, it's not all "genetics" so no, no race is inherently dumber or smarter than another. As you say, Argument Debunked.If you want, take me up on my other debate about the Internet and human rights abuses, I would like to put this to rest.
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
If you finished AP biology with a 100%, either you are lying, or your "AP biology" is the equivalent of my 7th grade life science course. Actually, if you got a 100%, my 7th grade life science course was definitely harder.

And no, I claimed other people who had that specific thought were retards; I claimed they, just like you, both had incorrect thinking.
Posted by Bribri10114 1 year ago
Bribri10114
Again with attacking the person! What is wrong with you?! Have you not been taught as a rational and morally correct human being to keep calm under pressuring circumstances? If anyone misunderstands or incorrectly states something, you don't call them a person who "clearly shows both lack of reading comprehension and lack of understanding of biology." Especially when you don't know who I am. I may not have taken statistics yet, but I have finished AP Biology with flawless 100s and have done internship research with biology professors in UTD and SMU. And I am, as rank 3 in my class, pretty sure I can read and understand all of your arguments. But want to talk about reading comprehension? You said in round 4 you didn't call me a retard? Are you sure because here is what you said word for word: "Only retards think this way. They too are incorrect in their thinking, just like you who thinks all races are equally intelligent." JUST LIKE YOU WHO THINKS ALL RACES ARE EQUALLY INTELLIGENT. Hmm...that seems an awful lot like an attack against me doesn't it Mr. Ad Hominem.

Why don't you bring up that evidence again? Because all I saw in refutation was "Do you think that all people are equally athletic?" And to that I say yes everyone is equally athletic, some people exercise that potential, but others don't. This is of course not true if they are born with muscular atrophy or some other degenerative disease, but then it doesn't have to specifically apply to a race.
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
That statement clearly shows both lack of reading comprehension and lack of understanding of biology. Did you not read my argument where i refuted your argument about that already?
Posted by Bribri10114 1 year ago
Bribri10114
How are you going to measure innate potential? You can't. There isn't a gene for success or intelligence. Some races from a young age are pressured to exercise their potential. Just because it isn't possible to measure the amount of inborn potential doesn't mean they have different amounts of it, especially when you haven't attack the idea that hard work and effort leads to the development of intelligence or the measure of "smartness"
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
No, everyone does not have the SAME potential. Everyone has POTENTIAL, but not in the same amounts. In other words, blackies prob have a .05% chance to become a genius, whereas jews have a 3-4% chance. That's not "the same."
Posted by Bribri10114 1 year ago
Bribri10114
So then because everyone has the same potential they have the same "smartness" the geniusness derives from hard work and surroundings like I mentioned.

Btw I'm a sophomore in high school and haven't taken stat yet because it is a senior class (if you skip two grades in math), but I am in my debate class so I can still argue.
Posted by Kelisitaan 1 year ago
Kelisitaan
Bribri, what you fail to grasp is that although everyone has the POTENTIAL to be a genius, the chances of being a genius are FAR higher if you are a certain race than if you are another race. In fact, they are so much higher that you'd probably be shocked.

I suggest you learn basic statistics. I'm not saying this to be mean. After arguing with you, almost all of the logical flaws I have seen you make come from a lack of understanding basic statistics concepts.
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