The Instigator
SebUK
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
bornofgod
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Noahs ark never happened...

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,130 times Debate No: 48418
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

SebUK

Pro

If you are new (joined a few days ago) please don't accept as you are likely to forget about the debate , THE RULES - Round 1 is strictly for acceptance only and no rebuttal in Round 2 , Round 2 is for you and me to explain our views.
bornofgod

Con

Hello, I've been in this forum for about eight months now and realize that most people in here have no idea who our Creator is or what happened in the past. The past can only be known by God's people through reading history books, holy books such as the Bible, Quran, etc., archeological discoveries and spoken stories that are told from one generation to the next generation.

None of these ways will give you accurate knowledge on what happened in the past because there are too many variables. One of the variables is that history books are written from one person's perspective of it or possibly the collected viewpoints from several observers of past moments in time. An analogy to prove that the Truth isn't observed from one perspective can go like this;

If a pedestrian is hit by a car in an intersection and there are four witnesses standing on four different corners of that intersection, the police reporting this accident will want to hear the four witnesses tell their stories. The first witness told the police that the pedestrian had run out into the path of the car like he wanted to be hit ( possible suicide ). The second witness told the police that he saw the pedestrian looking at him while he was crossing the intersection ( possible distraction by not looking at the car coming at him ). The third witness told the story that suggested the car was going way to fast on the street and didn't react to the man crossing the intersection illegally. The fourth witness tells the police that she had smelled alcohol on the breath of the pedestrian as he passed by her before entering the street crossing. With these stories that the police heard from these four witnesses, he has to figure out who is speaking the truth about the accident. Can you guess what the policemen reported in a written statement that he has to prepare for the courts?

This analogy will help you understand that written or spoken history can't be known as Truth.

Let's go to the bones and artifacts that archeologists gather while digging in the dirt of this earth. I have seen a full skeleton of a dinosaur in a museum. They had a few original bone chips glued on parts of this skeleton that was made of plaster and light weight concrete material. They were trying to convince me that this was the bones of a brontosaurus that lived on this planet a very long time ago. If I was ignorant of the fact that most of the skeleton was made from plaster of paris and lightweight concrete, I might have believed their story. All I saw was a few bone chips glued on to this skeleton that they could have dug up in the back of a farmer's barn where he raised Holstein cows for forty years. This should prove that archeologists can come up with fabricated stories to make sure the universities and the governments keep giving them money to keep them busy finding bones and other artifacts to convince us as evidence to their false stories.

The other way of knowing about the past is through stories told from generation to generation. But this can be proven to be a disaster by lining up ten people in a line and then tell a story to the first person in line. Then that person can tell the same story from his perspective to the person that's next to him in line. By the time the last person gets the story and tells it to the original storyteller who started this thing, the story is completely different that what it started out to be. If you don't believe me, then go find ten people to stand in line and do this little experiment.

Some Christians will tell you that the Bible is the absolute perfect way to know the past. So the story about Noah and the flood can be found in Genesis chapters 6 and 7. I want to concentrate on this particular phrase in this account in chapter 7;

Tenesis 7
17. The flood continued forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bore up the ark, and it rose high above the earth.
18. The waters prevailed and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark floated on the face of the waters.
19. And the waters prevailed so mightily upon the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered;
20. the waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep.

I want to show you that this account is a lie added by some writer that had no idea that the earth's crust was formed in the beginning as a level earth that God had me see in a vision to teach me how He created the earth illusion. The earth's crust is nothing but dried lava that was cooled off after God shaped the earth in a molten ball of hot molten lava. He gave me an analogy to teach me how the crust became level by having me imagine pouring pancake batter on a hot griddle. The pancake batter flattens out into a level cake and then bubbles ( cracks ) appear to let out the heat trying to escape through the batter. This is why you get tiny holes in your pancakes.

The original crust of the earth is cooled off lava with many holes in it, we know them as cracks, fissures, holes, etc. These cracks had to exist to let out heat pressure building inside the earth by friction caused by hot molten rocks rubbing together. This escape of heat pressure maintained the pressure within the earth. All the water that was used to mix the earthen ingredients together into hot molten lava to shape the earth into a ball escaped into the outer atmosphere as water vapor. As the earth cooled, the water vapor in the outer atmosphere condensed into water droplets that fell to the hot molten lava and finally cooled the lava into hard rock with cracks in it to let out heat pressure. Enough water fell to the earth until all these cracks were filled and some ponds and flowing streams were left on the crust. With the rapid cooling from water hitting the new crust, the rest of the water vapor in the air became frozen ice crystals. This blocked the view of the sun, moon, stars, planets and all other illusions in the universe so man could not see these celestial bodies when they were placed on this planet.

Since the earth was level and the sun's heat was blocked by this canopy of ice crystals in the outer atmosphere, the climate was perfect throughout the whole earth. God's first people experienced a perfect climate on a level crust of hardened lava. At the time of the flood, God spoke to Noah about a flood coming. God taught me about the flood happening but He didn't teach me all the details of Noah building a boat. However, He did teach me that that animals He had Noah put on the boat were not fully grown adult animals. He used young animals so they wouldn't take up much space in the boat and of each species, such as a horse type looking beast. God would take this pair of young horses and teach man how to breed them into many different types of horse looking beasts such as zebras and such.

He didn't teach me how the boat survived the flood but it is written down in Genesis so He didn't have to teach me these details. I only questioned the fact that all the animals couldn't fit in a boat together so He taught me how this was possible. In fact, God didn't dwell much on this flood story but He did teach me a lot why He had the flood to set up the day of the Lord when the earth would be used to destroy everything on the crust by melting it with stored up heat pressure inside the earth that has been building up since the flood covered up most of the cracks on the earth. I have a story about the day of the Lord written in this forum to show you how God used the earth to kill all the rest of the illusions of this world and here's the address to it;
http://www.debate.org...

Christians put their trust in written words of the Bible but I just proved to you that the Bible can't always be trusted for a perfect historical account. There were no mountains or deep ocean beds before the flood because molten lava cannot be dried into five mile high mountains or form five mile deep ocean beds. This all happened during the flood. Besides, even if the earth was level, the water would have only been 8700 feet deep so mount Everest would have stuck out another 23,000 feet above the water level. This makes the information in Genesis 7 a lie. So don't trust all the information in the Bible for history lessons.

The only one who can tell you about history in detail is our invisible Creator who has taught me many things about how He created everything. You can trust everything I write or speak because I was created as His invisible voice to speak and write for Him through the flesh that's writing this argument right now.

God bless all who read this argument that can't be won by a liar who challenged me.
Saint Brad
Debate Round No. 1
SebUK

Pro

Now I'm going to list the things i see make it impossible for Noah's ark story to be possibly true 1. since all the humans on board where of one race how did new races arise in 4000 thousand years? and 8 people is not enough genetic diversity 2.'"19The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. 20The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered. 21All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind;"' So i assume you know Mount everest is the highest mountain in the world ? and since in the Bible it says that water was that high animals would either die because of Lack of Oxygen or because they froze to death 3. There would have to be 50 animals of each kind for there to be enough genetic diversity . there would be severe genetic defects 4. If there was only a few thousand pairs of kinds of animals why is there so many species right now estimates show there is roughly about 15 million species of animals so how did that happen in 4000 years 5.As the animals left the ark there was no plants and food therefore wouldn't the animals eat each other or just die out 6.There would be signs of migrations for example after leaving the ark the kangoro would travel to Australia and we found find fossils on the way 7.The Problem of Food and Water , i really dont need to explain much on this one for example 2 elephants would require 365,000 Ibs. Of Food and 36,500 gal. of water , the Girrafes are going to need 54,750 Ibs. of food , the hippos are gone need 65,700 Ibs. of food and the Lions 16,060 Ibs. of Meet and that meet is going to rott , what makes it even more incredible is that in Genesis 6:21 it says 'You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them." . 8.Most Sea Life would die , Because there would be Changing Water temperature , pressue , salt&fresh water mixing = fish die
bornofgod

Con

It's obvious you were lazy and didn't read my argument. I could care less what you think might have happened during the time that none of us were around to witness. All you have is words in a book to believe in and archeological discoveries that still don't have any evidence of an ark built by Noah and his sons. Your argument contains nothing new to anyone who has put any thought at all to the problems this story of Noah and the ark has contributed to man's search for the Truth. Here's a prophecy written by the prophet Amos that shows that man will seek the Truth and will not find it.

Amos 8
11: "Behold, the days are coming," says the Lord GOD, "when I will send a famine on the land; not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.
12: They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD, but they shall not find it.

You're just one of God's people who are searching the Truth and will come up with any lie to try explain why you don't know Him or His stories told by illusions called prophets and saints. You're trying to tell God's people that Noah and the ark story never happened but you have no proof because you weren't there to witness it.

I don't have any proof that can be used as evidence that Noah's ark did or didn't happen during this age. But I do know our Creator who told me about the past, present and future and how it was possible for Him to put the human and animal species on a boat to survive the flood that did occur thousands of years ago. He also told me how he was able to take these illusions that entered the big boat and make many various looking creatures from these few species through His eternal plan to take His invisible vibrations and process them into illusions that appear to change into different looking creatures from the original species that survived the flood. He also taught man to breed these changed illusions into many other kinds of different looking creatures that all came from the original few species that came aboard a boat that I never got to see in this age. I just trust our Creator who gives me this information within my mind to write and speak about.

Who ever taught you that the flood happened 4,000 years ago? It might have happened 20,000 years ago or longer, Who knows but our Creator who didn't find it necessary to tell me how old things are. That's because there's no time, space or mass in the information that we exist as. So time to our Creator is NOT important at all.

If you would like, I can explain to you why the flood had to happen in the first place. Go to this thread and read it thoroughly until you realize why the flood had to happen; http://www.debate.org...

After you read this story I wrote a couple days ago, then go to this video on YouTube that I made today, March 6, 2014; http://youtu.be...

If you were wise, you would have checked these writings and video to see what God wants His people to know. If you're unwise, you will keep arguing like a fool and lose this debate. That's because you're only focused on your selfish thoughts rather than our Creator's thoughts and all His people.

Have a nice day in the mind of our Creator,
Saint Brad
Debate Round No. 2
SebUK

Pro

'It's obvious you were lazy and didn't read my argument. I could care less what you think might have happened during the time that none of us were around to witness' No I just don't listen to your theory since I am addressing the story of noah's ark as it is and I do not care about your theory of earth . I am talking about the story of the ark from the bible. ' Your argument contains nothing new to anyone who has put any thought at all to the problems this story of Noah and the ark has contributed to man's search for the Truth.' Why would i say something new since mainstream christians can't even adress these , without feeling the need to use the quotoes from a book that I don't belive in . If Christians could destroy my previous arguments i would find new ones but they can't . 'you have no proof because you weren't there to witness it.' You do know there is such a thing as scientific evidence and scientific theories right ? if you do think that all my arguments i have listed in Round 2 are not valid just because i wasn't there than i just have nothing to say .'I don't have any proof that can be used as evidence that Noah's ark did or didn't happen during this age. ' You shouldn't have accepted the debate than , i thought so . 'But I do know our Creator who told me about the past, present and future and how it was possible for Him to put the human and animal species on a boat to survive the flood' ' Your personal thoughts are not taken into account . 'He also told me how he was able to take these illusions that entered the big boat and make many various looking creatures from these few species through His eternal plan to take His invisible vibrations and process them into illusions that appear to change into different looking creatures from the original species that survived the flood. ' So there was only a couple thousand 'kinds' of animals on the boat right? than how is it possible that now there is millions of species that would mean that a few thousand species of animals in 4000 years have turned into millions of species , there would litterly have to be new species everyday. 'Who ever taught you that the flood happened 4,000 years ago? It might have happened 20,000 years ago or longer, Who knows but our Creator who didn't find it necessary to tell me how old things are.' most of the stories about the ark come from around that time , also according to the Bible the Earth is 6000 years old therefore it couldn't have happened 20,000 years ago according to Christians .
bornofgod

Con

For one thing, I found it very difficult to read your argument with my quotes and your arguments about them all in one paragraph mixed together. If you want to win this debate, then you should at least make proper quotes " As in this statement" by the author you are trying to debate with. Otherwise it gets very confusing to those who are reading these arguments and vote on them.

I'm not trying to win this debate. I'm only sharing information that our Creator is giving me to write down in this post about what He created and knows about. He's not a fool at all. He's very wise and knows exactly what He's doing at all times. I just happen to be His last saint that He's using to teach me who I am in Him. Now I know from His teachings that I was created as His voice. You don't have to believe this but this is how I'm able to write about the flood and Noah's ark. I didn't have to read about it in a Bible to learn that it was possible for God to make sure He carried the genetic information from one side of the flood to the other side. From this genetic information, our Creator can change anything He wants to make new creatures from the various species of animals that He designed as illusions for this world and us humans ( also illusions ) to enjoy. He can even place illusions in this world that didn't have to make it from one side of the flood to the other side. Why do you think man keeps discovering new species all the time?

Here's a quote from your last argument;

" Why would i say something new since mainstream christians can't even adress these , without feeling the need to use the quotoes from a book that I don't belive in . If Christians could destroy my previous arguments i would find new ones but they can't ."

Here's another quote from you in the same argument;

"most of the stories about the ark come from around that time , also according to the Bible the Earth is 6000 years old therefore it couldn't have happened 20,000 years ago according to Christians ."

Do you see how you're contradicting yourself?

No further argument is needed. You have proved to me that you're incapable of debating, using your own thoughts instead of plagiarizing the thoughts of other people and the very Christians and Bible that you don't believe in.

God bless you,
Saint Brad
Debate Round No. 3
SebUK

Pro

Unfortunatly i cant space paragraphs on this website that is why it looks like one paragraph, my opponent hasnt presented any arguments or evidence therefore I have nothing to address . I urge everyone to vote pro and i extend my arguments from Round 2.
bornofgod

Con

The evidence my opponent brought to you is called "imagination". Imagine an elephant weighing so many pounds and the two, male and female, would be too heavy for a boat. This is the kind of evidence my opponent was trying to convince you with.

Likewise, I do NOT have any evidence to say that Noah's ark and the boat he supposedly built happened because I was not there personally to see it happen. All the eyewitnesses did not know how to write at that time because written languages didn't exist until God's plan called the beast began in the minds of people who survived the flood. This plan of God's taught His people how to look up into the sky and connect the white dots, which we know today as stars, to get building shapes. From those shapes came plans for making blocks for their buildings and characters for their written languages and mathematics that God needed to teach them so they would have languages to use for their building techniques and how to describe them. These characters and stories about their false gods ( things built with human hands ) became various spoken languages and various characters that we use in our languages today. Thus, the symbolic story of the tower of Babel which can be found in Genesis, also. This story wasn't about one particular building, This symbolic phrase is describing the building with human hands up until this time because man is still erecting buildings that come from invisible thoughts that God puts in the minds of men.

So the only way the people who survived the flood could tell their story was through the ONE language that they spoke to each other. All other spoken languages and the characters for their written languages didn't come until much later and that's why this stories about a past flood can be heard in many different cultures and languages. Here's a reference to the various cultures and languages that are about a great flood that happened in the past;

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Although they call them myths, these myths came about because there was definitely a great deluge as I described it in the writing that I shared in the first argument of this debate. Here it is again if you missed it the first time;

http://www.debate.org...

This flood was necessary to set up the day of the Lord when the earth's crust will be melted by hot molten lava, at least that's the illusion that will occur.

It appears you don't want to argue with your imagination anymore since you're already encouraging your friends to vote for you. So I will stop with this argument to see if you want to continue imagining some more ideas to write down in your next argument to prove your point, possibly by using some Christian interpretations again like the 4,000 years you referenced to that Christians believe in.

God bless you,
Saint Brad
Debate Round No. 4
SebUK

Pro

' Imagine an elephant weighing so many pounds and the two, male and female, would be too heavy for a boat. This is the kind of evidence my opponent was trying to convince you with.' Yet you cannot rebutt any of the arguments i have presented to you which really shows who should win this debate. 'Likewise, I do NOT have any evidence to say that Noah's ark and the boat he supposedly built happened because I was not there personally to see it happen.' Than you shouldn't have accepted the debate if you can't even rebutt any of my arguments . 'His people how to look up into the sky and connect the white dots, which we know today as stars, to get building shapes. ' seriously ? that is irrelevant to the topic. 'Here's a reference to the various cultures and languages that are about a great flood that happened in the past;' This is a logical fallacy just because someone belives in something that doesn't make it any more true , just because more than one culture has the same kind of a story it doesn't make it true if one culture has a story about a flood it is not impossible that another culture also has one . 'This flood was necessary to set up the day of the Lord when the earth's crust will be melted by hot molten lava, at least that's the illusion that will occur.' That's irrelevant to what the debate is about . 'It appears you don't want to argue with your imagination anymore since you're already encouraging your friends to vote for you. ' If someone here is using their imagination than it's not me. My Opponent hasn't presented me with any other good issue that i can address and has still failed to rebutt any of the arguments that i have presented .
bornofgod

Con

My opponent has decided that his arguments are sufficient evidence of why the story of Noah's ark didn't happen. Like I said in my prior arguments, neither him nor I have absolute proof that it happened or didn't happen. But as you can see, I have explained in fairly good detail of why neither one of us can argue about something that happened in the past when none of us were around to see it happen. All we have is stories amongst the many cultures and the old testament book of Genesis to go by. Since we don't have any archeological evidence to support either one of us, then this debate is useless and thus, winning isn't important to me. If my opponent wins this debate, then it's only because his friends are supporting him rather than his arguments. I leave this debate up to my arguments and I could care less if I win or not.

Have a nice day in the mind of our Creator,
Saint Brad
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by bornofgod 3 years ago
bornofgod
There are a lot of ridiculous things that are happening today, too. Can you imagine Noah coming into the future and seeing rockets flying off to Mars?
Posted by Solomon_Orlando 3 years ago
Solomon_Orlando
This is ridiculous - not only is the idea of the structurally sound ark completely inane, but the story that follows it is just as silly. Noah's Ark never happened; it does not make any sense.
Posted by bornofgod 3 years ago
bornofgod
Take your time my fellow debater. I have all kinds of time.
Posted by SebUK 3 years ago
SebUK
By the time animals would reach the ark the animals would have became adults
Posted by SebUK 3 years ago
SebUK
I will post my arguments tommorow if thats okay with you because im busy now
Posted by bornofgod 3 years ago
bornofgod
I not only accepted this debate with you, I thought I might as well give you some details to begin with at the same time so you can see that I'm not a very good debater. I'm the voice of God who knows things about the past that no man could ever know.
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