The Instigator
SebUK
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
the_streetsurfer
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Noahs ark never happened.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/5/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 412 times Debate No: 48416
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

SebUK

Pro

If you are new (joined a few days ago) please don't accept as you are likely to forget about the debate , THE RULES - Round 1 is strictly for acceptance only and no rebuttal in Round 2 , Round 2 is for you and me to explain our views.
the_streetsurfer

Con

I accept!

Just to be clear, round 1 is acceptance, round 2 is arguments and the rest are rebuttals?

I'm looking forward to this!
Debate Round No. 1
SebUK

Pro

Yep that's Right Round1 is for acceptance round 2 is arguments and the rest are rebuttals . Now I'm going to list the things i see make it impossible for Noah's ark story to be possibly true 1. since all the humans on board where of one race how did new races arise in 4000 thousand years? and 8 people is not enough genetic diversity 2.'"19The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. 20The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered. 21All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind;"' So i assume you know Mount everest is the highest mountain in the world ? and since in the Bible it says that water was that high animals would either die because of Lack of Oxygen or because they froze to death 3. There would have to be 50 animals of each kind for there to be enough genetic diversity . there would be severe genetic defects 4. If there was only a few thousand pairs of kinds of animals why is there so many species right now estimates show there is roughly about 15 million species of animals so how did that happen in 4000 years 5.As the animals left the ark there was no plants and food therefore wouldn't the animals eat each other or just die out 6.There would be signs of migrations for example after leaving the ark the kangoro would travel to Australia and we found find fossils on the way 7.The Problem of Food and Water , i really dont need to explain much on this one for example 2 elephants would require 365,000 Ibs. Of Food and 36,500 gal. of water , the Girrafes are going to need 54,750 Ibs. of food , the hippos are gone need 65,700 Ibs. of food and the Lions 16,060 Ibs. of Meet and that meet is going to rott , what makes it even more incredible is that in Genesis 6:21 it says 'You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them." . 8.Most Sea Life would die , Because there would be Changing Water temperature , pressue , salt&fresh water mixing = fish die
the_streetsurfer

Con

the_streetsurfer forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
SebUK

Pro

I extend my arguments
the_streetsurfer

Con

Ok, I will just rebut your arguments next round... As con I have no BoP... Pro must prove his resolution true and I must either 1) Make my own arguments or 2) Successfully rebut my opponents arguments. I will choose to rebut the arguments my opponent made instead of making my own case.

Thanks and I look forward to the next rounds!
Debate Round No. 3
SebUK

Pro

I await my opponent
the_streetsurfer

Con

Hello! I will begin my rebuttals now.

1. Since all the humans on board where of one race how did new races arise in 4000 thousand years? and 8 people is not enough genetic diversity

It is most likely that the people on Noah's ark were of slightly different genetic makeup at the time of the ark. However, most biblical scholars agree that the races came from the tower of Babel when all the people scatter.

This point is not really proving anything - Even evolutionists don't have much of an answer to how the races came about. Although this is still a mystery for both sides, I find it much harder to explain how some apes evolved to be white people and others african americans:).

2. "19The water prevailed more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. 20The water prevailed fifteen cubits higher, and the mountains were covered. 21All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind;"' So i assume you know Mount everest is the highest mountain in the world ? and since in the Bible it says that water was that high animals would either die because of Lack of Oxygen or because they froze to death.

First, there is something that we need to clear. (My point is agreed upon by creationists and evolutionists alike) Before the flood, the world was relatively flat. Even the tallest mountain was only a few miles high. In the Bible, it says that the fountains of the deep opened - This created unrest deep into the earth. As water and other things poured out from underground, it completely changed the face of the earth. In a short span of time, valleys deepened, mountains rose taller and those events created the world we know today. Evolutionists also agree that event like this happened to shape our world but they do not believe that it was the flood. (1)

So becuase of this, we can see that the tallest mountain wasn't really that tall. Because of that, the animals could breathe and they wouldn't freeze.

3. There would have to be 50 animals of each kind for there to be enough genetic diversity . there would be severe genetic defects.

There isn't any support for this so I don't know what you're talking about. But, according to evolution,we all came from a common ancestor so wouldn't these same rules apply in an even greater sense if this were true?

4. If there was only a few thousand pairs of kinds of animals why is there so many species right now estimates show there is roughly about 15 million species of animals so how did that happen in 4000 years.

I have one major point: Use of words. In the Bible, it says to take Kinds of animals, not species. Above, you said that there was only a few thousand "kinds" of animals on the ark (Which is correct). However, you then asked how the ark could fit the 15 million "species". Those are two entirely different things. I completely the support the theory of microevolution - Those "kinds" can easily change into different species within that "kind" of animal. For example, A Zebra is a species of horses, which is a kind. (2)

5. As the animals left the ark there was no plants and food therefore wouldn't the animals eat each other or just die out.

First, most vegetation could survive as seeds. Even though the plants died, the seeds scattered all over and were beggining to grow after the flood. Noah got an olive branch with leaves before they left the ark which meant that an olive tree was alive and growing somewhere. Also, as seen by modern floods, massive sheets of floating vegetation could have supplied food.

6. There would be signs of migrations for example after leaving the ark the kangoro would travel to Australia and we found find fossils on the way.

The same arguement applies that I made earlier. The "kinds" of animals would be slowly scattere around the earth, sometimes traveling on the massive sheets of vegetation. The example of the Kangaroo is often used, but there is proof of something like this happening today. We know that bison once inhabited the majority of North America but today they are only in a few areas. Although we know this, very few bison fossils have been found in the places that they once lived. The same thing goes for the kangaroo. Fossilization is a tricky process. (3)

7. The Problem of Food and Water , i really dont need to explain much on this one for example 2 elephants would require 365,000 Ibs. Of Food and 36,500 gal. of water , the Girrafes are going to need 54,750 Ibs. of food , the hippos are gone need 65,700 Ibs. of food and the Lions 16,060 Ibs. of Meet and that meet is going to rott , what makes it even more incredible is that in Genesis 6:21 it says 'You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

It is true that these animals would require a lot of food. There are a few things to keep in mind. First, the animals on the ark were juvenile and therefore didn't require the amount of food of a full grow animal does. Second, these animals were not active. They weren't burning as much energy and therefore didn't require a massive amount of food. Third, most of the food provided was dried and concentrated giving the animlas the necesary nutrients without the space. (4) (5)

8. Most Sea Life would die , Because there would be Changing Water temperature , pressue , salt&fresh water mixing = fish die.

I would agree with this. It is evidenced by the fossil record that fish and sea life did die. But the beggining to your question says it all: "Most". Most fish would die. Again, we see fossil evidence from this. Most does not mean all, and as we can see fish are here today. The flood killed "most" fish, not all of them.

I have made a rebuttal to each of my opponents case and I await his response!

Support:

(1) - http://www.icr.org...

(2) - http://www.answersingenesis.org...

(3) - http://www.answersingenesis.org...

(4) - http://www.creationtoday.org...

(5) - http://www.answersingenesis.org...


The VB script error won't let me go back and check for grammar errors....
Debate Round No. 4
SebUK

Pro

'This point is not really proving anything - Even evolutionists don't have much of an answer to how the races came about. Although this is still a mystery for both sides, I find it much harder to explain how some apes evolved to be white people and others african americans:). ' Well actually why do you find it hard ?Evolutionists do know how races came about , adaptation , All humans come from Africa, so humans at one point were entirely black skinned. All races outside of Africa are just subsets of that original African population. 'Evolutionists also agree that event like this happened to shape our world but they do not believe that it was the flood. (1)' That is not true the link you gave me is to a pro-creation website that doesn't contain any statistics also on your argument , evidence doesn't support your point of view at all - Mount Everest, like the rest of the Himalayas, rose from the floor of the ancient Tethys Sea. The range was created when the Eurasian continental plate collided with the Indian subcontinental plate about 30 to 50 million years ago. http://www.italysoft.com...;. 'There isn't any support for this so I don't know what you're talking about. But, according to evolution,we all came from a common ancestor so wouldn't these same rules apply in an even greater sense if this were true?' I don't understand your point either what biologists refer to as a common ancestor. This apelike ancestor, which probably lived 5 to 11 million years ago in Africa, gave rise to two distinct lineages, one resulting in hominids -- humanlike species -- and the other resulting in the great ape species living today. Or, to use a family tree analogy, the common ancestor occupied a trunk, which then divided into two branches. Hominids developed along one branch, while the great ape species developed along another branch. http://science.howstuffworks.com... argument i used was if there was two animals of each kind they will have babies after leaving the ark right? and than their babies would have to mate with each other , there is not enough genetic diversity for a species to form 'Without going into the details of genetics, it can be stated that every inherited trait, however small, is coded for by one or more genes, and each gene locus may have a substantial number of variants (alleles), which accounts for the great variety observed in a given population. Any specific individual, however, has at most only two alleles per locus—one from each parent. As James C. King writes:

There is good evidence for concluding that every message coded in the DNA exists in any sizeable population in numerous versions, forming a spectrum grading from grossly defective alleles—such as the one for albinism—at one end, through the slightly deviant, to the normal at the other end. And the normal is probably not a single version of the message but a collection of slightly different alleles. (p. 55)

Hence, for a trait such as human pigmentation, "we can visualize not merely a few dozen interacting loci but an array of perhaps a dozen or so alleles at each locus" (p. 60).

From this we can see that the original canine baramin in Eden would have needed a fantastic set of giant chromosomes with alleles for every trait that would someday be manifest in coyotes, wolves, foxes, jackals, dingos, fennecs, and the myriad of minute variations in hair color (twenty-four genes at nine loci), height, face shape, and so forth that are seen in the domestic dog (cf. Hutt). So, too, for the feline kind, within which creationists Byron Nelson (p. 157) and Alfred Rehwinkel (p. 70) both place lions, tigers, leopards, and ocelots as well as housecats. Similar giant chromosomes would be required for the bovine kind, equine kind, and so on.' -http://ncse.com... . 'I have one major point: Use of words. In the Bible, it says to take Kinds of animals, not species. Above, you said that there was only a few thousand "kinds" of animals on the ark (Which is correct). However, you then asked how the ark could fit the 15 million "species".' you misunderstood me there was a few thousand kids of animals of ark right? and now there are million of spcies alive today? how is that massive change possibly in 4 thousand years ? enlighten me ? about 10 new species would have to come alive every day for it to reach 15 million in 4 thousand years .'Noah got an olive branch with leaves before they left the ark which meant that an olive tree was alive and growing somewhere. Also, as seen by modern floods, massive sheets of floating vegetation could have supplied food. ' a seed ? after a year underwater? also not a lot of animals feed off olives you know . 'It is true that these animals would require a lot of food. There are a few things to keep in mind. First, the animals on the ark were juvenile and therefore didn't require the amount of food of a full grow animal does.' Juvenile? even if they started their migration the ark as juvenile by the time they arrived at the ark they would be adults .

the_streetsurfer

Con

the_streetsurfer forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by SebUK 2 years ago
SebUK
Microsoft vb<x>script compilation error '800a03e9' ? yeah happens every other time to me aswell
Posted by the_streetsurfer 2 years ago
the_streetsurfer
I'm getting that same microsoft Vb script error again... I will try to post my argument but it took me about an hour to make this comment... Sorry about this!
Posted by the_streetsurfer 2 years ago
the_streetsurfer
I'm so sorry I just completely lost track of time...
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