The Instigator
bladnik26
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Firewolfman
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

Non-practicing Christians should not practice Christmas

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Firewolfman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/18/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 878 times Debate No: 28410
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

bladnik26

Pro

I am Catholic and have seen in the past few years, that there are many people that I know aren't Christian, practicing the joyous holiday of Christmas. I would point the blame solely on commercialism but I can do that because I've seen plenty of liberal atheists playing the X-Mas card for the month of December. I feel that it is a holiday like all the other religions' holidays, and since it is you should only practice it if you are Christian.
Firewolfman

Con

This seems like an intruiging thought-provoking argument, and I accept.

I await your next round and your arguments, as the BOP must come from you as you are proving why they shouldn't practice Christmas and I will rebutt your arguments and present my own, etc.

Good luck, and I hope this will be a swift, fun debate :)
Debate Round No. 1
bladnik26

Pro

Alright, where to begin. Lets start with the fact that when you strongly, and firmly believe in something, you tend to really appreciate it and support. Pretend that you are a Christian, you've just walked into a Christmas party. At the Christmas parties that you're used to there is singing of carols, traditional foods, and an unwrapping of meaningful, thoughtful presents. But this one is different. There's Christmas music on the stereo, but only they wanted it to seem "festive". They have ordered KFC for dinner. Finally the gifts, still a flop. Everyone gives each other gift cards. You just went to the worst Christmas party ever, and know that only true practicing Christians should do Christmas.
Firewolfman

Con

Just to start out, I want to thank my opponent for initiating one of my first legitament debates, as I previously was heavily trolled when I unknowingly accepted debates from trolls who didn't either post an argument, or didn't really say anything that makes sense. It's nice to have an actual debate, thats legitament. I would also like to thank the readers/voters for taking the time to see what we common DDOians have to say about some of this worlds many, many issues. Now to begin wi my rebuttals, and points.

1.) My opponent begins his argument by stating a 'fact', but even though it is somewhat logic, it would help to post a little more backup evidence and maybe some other points to prove that you are not just making up opinions and personal thoughts to back up your arguments, not saying you are but people that are voting might view that as a non-backed up point, and write you off as a cheater, or something worse.

So, following the outline that my opponent has put out for me, (as it is a analogy to something that he did not state or show how it was related to, although it is easy for some to see what its compared to,) I'm 100 percent christian and I'm at a Christmas party, and my opponent says that I am used to the singing of carols, traditional foods, and an unwrapping of meaningful, thoughtful presents.

First of all, I plan to crack down on everything I can disprove, so lets begin with his first statement. "Christmas parties that you're used to there, (correction, there are/is,) singing of carols..". First of all, in this day and age at a Christmas PARTY, (notice its not the celebration, it's a party that is thrown for Christmas,). What I believe you mean is that when you are celebrating Christmas, as usually parties on special dates, holidays, or birthdays involve either drinking, social conversation, or the other two things, ( traditional foods, and an unwrapping of meaningful, thoughtful presents,) that my opponent posted as what my character in this analgoy is accostomed to. Never, have I seen a party, that has the singing of carols, and my opponent has not defined what carols he is talking about. Modern tunes such as Jingle Bell Rock, or old fashioned songs that celebrate the birth of [Christ]? It all depends on what you mean by "Carols".

Further backing up what a party is like and what usually goes on, even on Christmas parties, a definition listed in , (dictionary.com, if my opponent deems that this is a reliable source for me to use to define words listed in this argument,) states and says this when I search up 'party' on dictionary.com

par-ty
adjective, verb, par-tied, par-ty-ing, noun, plural, par-ties.

1.) : a social gathering, as of invited guests at a private home, for conversation, refreshments, entertainment, etc.: a cocktail party.

2.): a group gathered for a special purpose or task: a fishing party; a search party.

3.): a detachment, squad, or detail of troops assigned to perform some particular mission or service.

4.):a group of persons with common purposes or opinions who support one side of a dispute, question, debate, etc.

5.): a group of persons with common political opinions and purposes organized for gaining political influence and governmental control and for directing government policy: the Republican party; the Democratic party.
[1]

Looking at all these meanings, I believe on an educated guess, that when you said 'christmas party' you meant meaning number one, as the other meanings and definitions don't make sense at all, and number one fits the criteria more then the other options. So, saying that you are defining it as number one, then you said, "Pretend that you are a Christian. You've just walked into a Christmas party. At the Christmas parties that you're used to there is singing of carols, traditional foods, and an unwrapping of meaningful, thoughtful presents." Drawing from what you said, and the meaning, I can't understand how the singing of carols has to do with a social gathering, unless you place it under the category of entertainment. And yet again, you have not provided what carols you are reffering to, so if we could know what you mean by the carols, then I could draw off your statments with more knowledge of what your arguments mean and what you are trying to point out. As any song from the most crude to church songs can be considered 'carols', it all depends on your definition.

2.) Secondly, I would like to point out that the other two things he listed as my pretend-character considers 'normal and essential to parties', make sense usually at christmas parties there is traditional foods, although since this is party, is it on Christmas day? If not, then how can you unwarp presents, if another one of my pretend-character's opinions, (him being a christian,) would be that the unwrapping of presents should actually occur on the day of the holiday, not just any day like June where there is no real meaning to celebrating a holiday months away. Please provide a rebuttal and who you mean by this party, as I am genuinely confused.

3.) My opponent then continues to state. "and an unwarpping of meaningful, thoughtful presents." first of all, this is a subjective opinion as it depends on the gift and how one considers the value of recieving a present, as others might think that the gifts are meaningless.

4.) Then, Pro says, "There's Christmas music on the stereo, but only they wanted it to seem "festive". They have ordered KFC for dinner. Finally the gifts, still a flop. Everyone gives each other gift cards. You just went to the worst Christmas party ever, and know that only true practicing Christians should do Christmas."

Firtly, what do you mean by stating theres holiday music that seemed festive, as something that is negative? Isnt christmas a festival holiday and time of the year? Please express and explain further, as I'm confused why thats a bad thing as no music at all would kinda be anti-christmas spirit.

Next, he goes on to say that they have ordered KFC for dinner. First of all, this has NOTHING TO DO with the argument at hand, which is "Non-Practicing Christians should not practice Christmas". What does KFC food prove at all, it just says that the people running the party either couldn't afford to buy proper turkey and do not have enough money for everything, (which is understandable and forgiveable,) didn't feel that anyone really cared about what they were eating, (AS CHRISTMAS IS ABOUT THE BIRTH OF JESUS, NOT ABOUT GOOD FOOD!!!,) or they just didn't care enough to get Christmas food. So what? That doesn't prove anything relevant to the argument.

After that, he says the gifts are a 'flop', which I don't know what flop means, and states that everyone gives each other gift cards. AND? Maybe people prefered gift cards with tickets to travel the world, is a million dollar check gift card not as good as a christmas gift that is a teddy bear? This is entirely subjective and has no relevance on this debate. Point rebutted.

Finally, he says that "only true practicing Christians should do Christmas." Since when, or where did you state this party was held and attended by non-practicing Christis? NO WHERE? You never even defined what group or type of religion is holding this party, so how did you even come to the thought of posting that argument? Doesn't make sense, and is incredibly invalid as you either:
A.) Forgot to provide details
B.) Hoped I wouldn't notice

Nevertheless, I hope next round you can post a more relevant, valid argument as I have no need to post any arguments as you have not proven in any way, shape, or form that your side of this argument is correct, and therefore failing to even establish any convincing points or even win the argument..so if you continue like this I will win by default; as no arguments that really are valid, and you use opinions and non fact-based-statments to make yourself seem the victor.

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 2
bladnik26

Pro

You said that Christmas is about the birth of Jesus, it is, I fully agree with that. But, you have people that really don't care about that, or may not even know that that is why we celebrate Christmas in the first place. What this is all about is that Christmas is being destroyed by people that celebrate it, not even knowing why other than jimmy wants an iPod. They've taken a traditional holiday that was set aside for the members of the Christian faith to get together and celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ and thank god for all of our blessings. By they I mean of course the atheist liberals.
Firewolfman

Con

To start out, I would like to point out that my opponent dropped all of my points and let my rebuttals stand, so therefore I win all the points he dropped, as he seems to agree with my arguments or just accepts that my view is more backed up or some other reason.

Also, my opponent has still not provided a source, and doesn't even put up a real example of this happening..as the viewers and myself might be questioning-what the heck are you reffering to? This never happens? Also, my opponent states that Christmas is being destoyed by people who only celebrate it for gifts, and solely blames this, (discriminately,) on atheist liberals. I would like to call out opinion, discrimination, and flaming on this half as you are claiming a specific politicial party is corrupting a seperate religions holiday. And all my arguments previously address this; argument extended.

Also, my opponent states that, "they have taken a traditional holiday that was set aside for members of the Christian faith..." which directly violates main beilefs of Christian culture. It is to my knowledge, that god created man and woman out of his own image, and all of us are decended from those two original beings, who were created from god, so we are all decended from god. And if we're related to god, who is made out as a peaceful, loving, fair, just ruler, then why would he discriminate other religious faiths for celebrating a religious holiday? Even though they might not believe, maybe they should at least see the glory of Jesus and might even become Christian, as they might of never been informed about what Christianity is truly like...

Arguments extended; none of my rebuttalls were addressed so I basically win all of the points I madein R2,

Vote con!
Debate Round No. 3
bladnik26

Pro

Forfeit. I'm in no way agreeing with your side but see that you are a worthy apponent.
Firewolfman

Con

I accept my opponent's forfeit, and appreciate the compliment as I am not often called a worthy opponent.

I had fun in this debate, and I enjoyed debating with you, thanks for everything.

Back to you pro.
Debate Round No. 4
bladnik26

Pro

bladnik26 forfeited this round.
Firewolfman

Con

FF, extend arguments,

VOTE CON!
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Firewolfman 4 years ago
Firewolfman
oop forgot source number one:

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com...

Sorry bout dat :P
Posted by iamnotwhoiam 4 years ago
iamnotwhoiam
"Non-practicing Christians" would be Christians that don't go to church, or lapsed Catholics, and I don't think that is what you meant. If you amend the debate to "Non-Christians should not celebrate Christmas" I will accept.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by drafterman 4 years ago
drafterman
bladnik26FirewolfmanTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by DoctorDeku 4 years ago
DoctorDeku
bladnik26FirewolfmanTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit. Also even without the forfeit Pro dropped basically everything.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 4 years ago
Logical-Master
bladnik26FirewolfmanTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded. Seems simple enough.