The Instigator
robertqiu
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Archangel35
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points

Normal School is better than Homeschool.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Archangel35
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,457 times Debate No: 30702
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (37)
Votes (6)

 

robertqiu

Pro

So basically this is from a previous debate where my opponent forfeited. You wanted me to challenge you so yeah. Normal school is better than homeschool.

I despise the acceptance thing and we already decided so I will post my arguments in the 1st round. So here we go:

Contention 1: Social Interaction
School is often known as the main place where kids socialize. They're in it for 5 days a week! Most friends comes from school, where they meet with their friends everyday. To eliminate this critical opportunity at having friends is detrimental to the social development of a child. And how do kids find a spouse when they grow up? Without opposite gender interaction, they will feel awkward around a girl/boy. In a nutshell, homeschooling breeds a socially awkward person who does not know how to handle other people.

Contention 2: Discipline
At home, all their video games, and computers, and toys are close to them. They can be tempted to play with them. At school, they are stuck there, forced there, with other kids, and has to learn. They cannot suddenly grab out their phone and begin to play Tetris or their phone will be confiscated. Furthermore, at school they have required homework, and tests, while compared to homeschooling, where the parent isn't really enforcing and the homework there is actually classwork as it is in class, which is at home. Therefore, at school there is a stronger discipline enforced by teachers and the principal. A strong discipline of learning is the seed of a great education.

Contention 3: Preparation for the Real World
Bullies. School-rule enforcing principal. Strict teachers. Annoying peers. Cliques. These are several bothersome attributes of school. However, I will turn this to my side of the debate. As all these may be harmful, it strengthens the child's mental and emotional strength just like a vaccine strengthens the immune system. In the real world, there will be no second chances, and the child must know how to deal with these sorts of people. Again, the journey will strengthen the child, and prepare them for the real, outside world. This is vital. Now I give you the burden to prove that homeschooling prepares children for the real world as well.

Contention 4: Tiring for the Parent
Parents are doing this job for free, while teachers do this for money. This is a real, full-time job, and it takes real effort. Therefore one parent has to drop out of their job to help their children. The disadvantages of this are: 1. The burden of feeding a family will rest entirely on a single parent. This can be tiring and can also generate bad results. 2. What if the family has two children? Will the other parent have to drop out too, or will the homeschooling parent have to take on another pupil, who might be many years younger than the first? Will they both go at the same pace, or what? Therefore I give you another burden to explain to me a crystal clear plan how this is going to work out and address all the points I made above.

Contention 5: Schools have extracurricular activities and clubs
Schools have clubs, such as robotics, speech and debate, soccer team, and band. You don't have these opportunities at home. At home, the only thing being learned is academics, and while I agree that parents may cater to their child's individual strengths and weaknesses and improve their academics, they completely left out an important factor of a child's success. Extracurricular activities and clubs. They enforce teamwork and cooperation (soccer team, band, etc.) while at home there is no teamwork whatsoever and will in fact breed a spoiled kid who believes himself to be superior to his peers.

Contention 6: Competition
If kids are home-schooled, then they are on the blind side. Kids will not be able to compare with their peers, and will not know what level their peers are. They can fall behind and not even notice it. Competition is critical as it motivates a person to continually try to improve, and without it, it can be the downfall of a bright student. Therefore this is detrimental to the child.

Your turn.
Archangel35

Con

I thank my opponent for challenging me to a debate. I will go about this by first introducing my case, then attacking my opponents all in this round. My opponent didn’t say yes or no to my format, so I will just follow his format as best as possible.

My Case:


Contention 1: Price.

Research shows that most parents who homeschool their children spend less than $600 whereas public school parents spend an average of $10,000 per year. It is also shown that even though less money is spent, each homeschooled child outperforms the average public school student by about 30 percentile points.

Contention 2: More Time to Pursue Interests.

As soon as school is over, the children can immediately go to whatever they want. There is no traveling to get home and waste a lot of time. One can dance, or learn music. They don’t have to wait to get home, put away all their stuff because it is right there.

Contention 3: No Bullies.

At most schools, there are bullies. But in homeschool, the teacher almost always is watching the kids. And even if there is more than one kid, if anyone is being bullied, the teacher/instructor will easily find out. The kids don’t have to endure the teasing that happens in a normal school.

Contention 4: Curriculum.

When children are homeschooled, the teacher gets to choose the curriculum. Most times the curriculum is higher than most normal schools. And they tend to have a higher GPA, which as most of you know, is very important when applying to colleges.

Contention 5: Attention.

Children who attend public school lose attention in class because of their peers. They are either passing notes or talking. But in homeschooling, there are few children. It is better because the teacher will easily know if the child is zoning out, and the teacher can work better with the student because he/she doesn’t have to pay attention to how many ever students a normal school teacher has (depends on elementary, middle, or high).

I urge you to check out this link below on the stats of homeschool vs. public school. It shows that students who are homeschooled do better generally.

http://www.home-school.com...


My Opponent’s Case:

Contention 1 - When children are homeschooled, they are not inside the house 24/7. They do leave the house. They can make friends by going to the park, mall, or even through their parent’s friends children. Just because they are homeschooled does not mean they are cooped up in the house all the time.

Contention 2 - Usually, when a child is homeschooled, their “school” environment is separate from their playing area. I have a friend who is homeschooled, she played upstairs and her “school” was downstairs away from everything. They may be tempted as all kids are, but if they try anything, there is a less chance of them getting away with it.

Contention 3 - When kids are homeschooled, they are given the opportunity to grow and learn in the real world, rather than isolating them in the artificial world. This means that as they are growing up, they learn a great deal through observation and practical experience. Homeschoolers are more involved in their communities and do many other activities. They also go on field trips more often which introduce them to the real world day by day.

Contention 4 - I see your point for the two children, but both parents don’t have to drop out of work to take care of this. One is sufficient enough. As I said, my friend’s mom assigns a task to the oldest, and then after she has started her task, she goes on to the youngest. Then she alternates back and forth until their school day is finished.

Contention 5 - Homeschooling also has clubs. Just not in that wording. They do helping around the community, they can learn instruments, singing, whatever they want. They are not limited just because they go to school at a different place.

Contention 6 - Actually, if you checked out my link above, it is the homeschooled kids who have the better scores and the better averages. The graduation rate of a homeschooled child is 66.7% whereas a normal schooled child is 57.5%. There is a big difference in those two numbers.


Judge/Viewer, I urge you to vote Con/Homeschooling is better.

Thank You.
Debate Round No. 1
robertqiu

Pro

Hi.

Refutation:

Contention 1: Price
Sure, if you have evidence to back up your claim that homeschooling children perform better, I agree. However, what happens in high school? Does the parents continue to teach, and if the child's intended major is not his parents, what will his parents do? In elementary school and maybe middle school, homeschooling is fairly easy as most people know how to teach 1 1=2 and all that good stuff. But in high school, as the intensity is higher, homeschooling becomes more as a hassle than a benefit, as parents may not know much of the high school curriculum. And what happens when the kid goes to college? It will be an entirely new experience as he will be socially awkward, and it is better to have training for that in middle school or high school. And please, I would like to say that the $10,000 is not entirely true, as donations etc. make up the bulk of it. Public school is free while in homeschool you have to pay money for supplies. In public school the material is funded by the gov. Therefore this contention is entirely refuted.

Contention 2: More time to pursue interests
This is a weak argument. Walking home takes only 5-20 minutes, and most of the time students get picked up. We cannot ignore all the benefits of normal school just because of the time it takes for a mere 20 minutes to walk back from school. I can turn this to my side too. As students will arrive 20 minutes later than homeschool, they will learn time management which can be a vital skill in college and the real world. While this may also be a weak argument, it does not matter as your contention is refuted already.

Contention 3: No bullies
This can be turned to my side of the argument. Bullies are GOOD. At least in school. Why? Because in the real world, there are tons of bullies like your manager or job interviewer. You just got to be prepared for them, and learning how to deal with them in school can prepare for the real bullies in life. It is the journey that counts and makes you stronger. This principle of having a weaker form of a bad thing to immunize the person from it can be demonstrated in vaccines. Therefore not only is this argument refuted, it is turned to my side of the debate now.

Contention 4: Curriculum
You talk about higher GPA. This is totally false as GPA is only in public schools, not home. Next, if the parent gets to choose the curriculum, then he will be biased, and make the curriculum based on their interests and what he wants his child to become, NOT his child's own interests. This breeds a weak child who struggles in his area because he does not like it, but is forced to do it. For example, a child is fascinated by science. However, his parents love math and computer engineering. They force their kid to learn computer engineering, which their child not only struggles with, but hate. This is a bad way of teaching. Therefore this argument is refuted.

Contention 5: Attention
This can also be applied to the real world. In the real world there are a lot of people who work with you and can "distract" you. Again, you just have to learn to deal with it. In homeschool, there is a bit too much attention, and can make the child self-centered and selfish. This will ultimately spoil the child. Therefore this contention is also refuted.

Rebuttals:

Contention 1: Social interaction
Most friends stem from school. Parent's friend's children is more based on the parent, not on the child. The child may not have the same interests as his parent's friend's child. You say that children are not in the house 24/7 but this is a weak refutation. Even though children are not in the house 24/7, 1. other children who attend public school are at school, so therefore the homeschooled child is never in sync with public school students, therefore he cannot really meet and befriend other students, and 2. In public school, there is more social interaction than in homeschool, even when the child is in his free hours. Therefore this argument is won.

Contention 2: Discipline
However, in public school, there is a rigid discipline stronger than homeschool. In public school, this is the teacher's job, so she must get it right. Therefore they will work extremely hard, creating a well-rounded curriculum and schedule and having homework, and consequences such as calling parents. If children still disobey, they are brought to the principal, who will punish them. In homeschool, the schedule is very laid back, as they are in their own home, with their mom, so there wouldn't be a true schedule. They would just skip around as necessary and this is a bad teaching method. Homework would be classwork, and homework is more important as classwork as it strengthens responsibility. Therefore this argument is won.

Contention 3: Preparation for the real world
This is a weak refutation. In homeschool, you are isolated, while in public school you are with real people. Field trips wouldn't be the same without peers, as they are ultimately the competitors of the child when they grow up. Obviously, this is an illogical refutation so it should be disregarded.Therefore this argument is won.

Contention 4: Tiring for the parent
If the parent gives the older a task, the parent is not watching her, and she is at her home, and these two combined gives distraction. In public school, the teacher also does not watch you, but the student is not at home with all his toys and video games. Also, you keep on using your friend as a source and example. Your friend does not represent all the home-schooled kids. Therefore this contention is won.

Contention 5: Schools have extracurricular activities and clubs
Yes, they can do activities, but it is different as it is without peers, therefore without teamwork and cooperation. If they want to debate, then who to debate? Their siblings? Maybe, but that will get boring as they always have the same opponent. In school, you have teammates, and tournaments, and it is official. Doing something with peers have better life skill and normal skill development than with homeschool. Therefore this contention is won.

Contention 6: Competition
Graduation. Huh. What do you define graduation, as official (as with normal school) or just in name (with homeschool)? In homeschool, everything is laid back, and graduation at home is not the same at school, where it is much more competitive. Even if homeschooled kids have better scores and averages, they cannot improve, and cannot strive to compete as in the real world. Competition is ultimately more significant than with better scores temporarily, so this contention is won.

Lastly I would like to add another contention.

Contention 7: Bandwagon
What bandwagon means it that since most kids (actually 90% ) go to public schools, kids at homeschool would want to go to public school too. They feel left out and different from the others and want to fit in. They would be more happy to be with their peers than with their little brother who is younger by 5 years and their mom.

To clear this debate and organize it, voters, I will like to sum up the debate as of now. First, children like normal school, as stated in my 7th contention, parents like it, as stated in my 4th contention (they have less work), and therefore why not?

Next, I would like to say that I have 7 contentions of my own that are still standing and 2 contention of my opponents's (contention 2 and 3) that I have turned to my side of the debate. That equals a total of 9 contentions, and since I refuted all my opponent's arguments, the contentions that we each have is 9:0. This is a huge difference and I have obviously won at this point. I still respect my opponent's new refutations and contentions, but I doubt (no offense) that they would be enough to win, as I have 9 contentions while my opponent has none.

Vote Pro.
Thank you all.
Archangel35

Con

First I am going refute his then defend my own. And sorry for forgetting my sources. I will post them at the bottom of this Round.

Robertqiu's Case:
Contention 1: Homeschooled kids
have an awesome social with friends, enemies, frienemies, and high school romance. Just because you're homechooled doesn't mean that you have fewer friends, it means that you have to work harder for the friends you have and you appreciate them more. I have a friend that is homeschooled, and we didn't meet through our parents. They have other social lives too. Just because the learn at home doesn't mean they can't go to the movies, or shopping, or the park.

Contention 2: Most parents who homeschool are super strict about school. They do all the things we do, take tests, work late, write real reports. Most people seem to think homeschooling is a free pass to not do school. Homeschooled kids do more school than two public school students combined between all their classes.

Contention 3: Not all homeschools are just one child. My friend's mom is the head of a homeschool. She teaches multiple kids at the same time. Homeschooling gives the same preparation, if not more, to children. In fact, college classes are smaller than most high school, and in homeschool, it is more one-on-one with the teacher. It is very similar to a college environment.

Contention 4: Homeschooled kids don't sit in the same room as their toys. They don't even need their phones with them because they are at home/somebody's home. And when the parent is assigning one of the children a task, they can still watch both of them at the same time. Don't you think the teacher can watch the children out of their peripheral view? And you say I use my friend as a source. But aren't first hand sources better than internet sources? Actual people who do it are better sources than whatever is on the internet typed by some random pereson. Which may or may not be true. And the second parent, who homeschools, can also have a fun night job wherever they want.

Contention 5: Again, not all homeschools are one or two children. My friend was the captian of the Mock Trial Team. They still have peers they can work with. They can debate each other and get better by helping each other. This is better because with more people, everybody will say something different and confuse each other.

Contention 6: I define graduation as passing high school, like at the end of your senior year. I'm not sure if you know, but Ivy League Colleges seek out homeschoolers more because they tend to have better SAT, PSAT, and ACT scores than regular schooled kids. Most 8th grade homeschooled kids do better on the PSAT than the average 10th grader.

You are not allowed to add a contention in your 2nd round, but I will refute it anyway.

Contention 7: Kids at homeschool enjoy it more because of the quiet environment. They can quickly advance in the curriculum because the teacher will be able to explain it to them better because of the low student to teacher ratio. And as TD-Cole said in the comments section, there are class clowns who hold back the class months. It has happened to me as well.

Extra Info: My friend in high school is a sophmore. He is 15 and is taking online courses from colleges, and is doing well maintaing a good average. Colleges will be more likely to accept him over you and I because he knows what their pace is like, how much work it is, and he probably will be able to graduate 1/2-1 year earlier than the rest of his class.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On to my case.

Contention 1: Remember that most parents have also been through high school. They know what it is like. So they will get the curriculum and all the needed materials and push their kids harder. (I put the link in the sources). Just like in normal school where we get to choose our course, so do they. They just need the curriculum. And the $10,000 comes from taxes, they don't outright come and say "Give me 10,000 dollars for your child's education." It happens over the course of a year and goes to the school system. Nowadays, most of the textbooks available online; that is how even I access mine. If you want a hard copy, I bought my Biology textbook on amazon for 4 some dollars. Keep in mind that I go to a normal public high school.

Contention 2: When you say you turn this to your side, you actually helped me. You are right, homeschoolers learn more time management which IS a vital skill to have in the world. Homeschool parents have an on time policy (nothing can be late), whereas in highschools and other schools work is accepted late. I turn in a lot of things late for my English class, but I still have a 100%.

Contention 3: In homeschools, bullies may not come across the same way. Homeschooled kdis still get made fun of plenty. They go to places like other teens do too. People will still tease them for all sorts of things. But they learn to control their anger instead of in high schools the kids actually get into a fight (this has happened in my school).

Contention 4: Recently, college representatives appeared at my high school. They were talking about everything. Here is what they said about GPA: In some states, the kids get 2 point boosts for AP courses, other states 1 point boost and a few states give no boosts. This leaves the other kids at disadvantages. So they said GPA is not as important and their overall grade for each class. Which means that colleges look at whether you get an A, B, C, D or F for the class. The child selects his/her course and the parent inquires about the curriculum. If the child does not want to take such an advanced class, they should a course lower to it. Like in my school we have Algebra 1, Geometry, and Algebra 2 and on. They can start with the lowest and slowly take the higher courses.

Contention 5: How can focusing on studies make a child self-centered and selfish? It will only make them smarter and realize the importance of time management.


Extra Info: I am pretty sure by your argument you have not checked the link I showed you above. (http://www.home-school.com...). In any case, let me condense it for you. Homeschool kids score in the 80-90th percentile when it comes to studies; but public schoolers score around the 50th percentile. This is just one of the many thngs on there. I urge you to go to the bottom and read under where it says "But are homeschoolers a little odd? Studies say No."


Vote Con.
Thank you all.


Sources:

http://www.theusualmayhem.com...
http://www.investopedia.com...
ttp://www.home-school.com...

Debate Round No. 2
robertqiu

Pro

robertqiu forfeited this round.
Archangel35

Con

Please extend all my arguements, I hope my opponent posts his rebuttals and refutations next round. This was actually very fun.

I just wanted to say that I agree with Dr.Haz3 (posted in the comment section). Unless you want to major in sports, or anything related to that, it should not be as important as what you are learning in school. You don't necessarily have to join the sports team for your school. There are many teams that are not related to any school at all. Education is what matters the most. And you have to understand that colleges accept more homeschooled kids because their overall test scores (ACT, SAT, and PSAT) are higher than public/private schooled kids.

Vote Pro,
Thanks.
Debate Round No. 3
robertqiu

Pro

robertqiu forfeited this round.
Archangel35

Con

That's just too bad my opponent forfeited again. Please extend all my arguements. Please vote. Sorry for the confusion last round, I was so used to being Pro. What I meant was:

Vote CON,
Thanks.
Debate Round No. 4
37 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by justin.graves 1 year ago
justin.graves
No, I've already tried.
Posted by Archangel35 1 year ago
Archangel35
Isn't there another way you confirm?
Posted by justin.graves 1 year ago
justin.graves
I can't be in a debate because the site won't send me the confirmation text.
Posted by Archangel35 1 year ago
Archangel35
@justin.graves: you can't vote because you haven't completed 3 debates yet.
Posted by justin.graves 1 year ago
justin.graves
@robertqiu: Maybe you should become homeschooled! Then you'd have time for AP courses, college courses, debating, Mock Trial, normal school, socializing, traveling the world, and writing books and short stories like me. Plus you could use this website all the time.
Posted by robertqiu 1 year ago
robertqiu
sorry, I just don't have the time to go on this site anymore. I wanted to finish this debate, but I have a debate tournament coming up and schoolwork and I just can't find the time to do this. Sorry for ruining it.
Posted by justin.graves 1 year ago
justin.graves
I'd vote Con, but I am having issues confirming my identity. The fact that no one has voted Pro at the time of this comment gives me some hope for the future of humanity.
Posted by Archangel35 1 year ago
Archangel35
@robertqiu, why didn't u post round 4?
Posted by Archangel35 1 year ago
Archangel35
Everyone who can, please vote Con. My opponent failed to uphold his BoP. Thanks.
Posted by zezima 1 year ago
zezima
Lolz
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Sola.Gratia 1 year ago
Sola.Gratia
robertqiuArchangel35Tied
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Total points awarded:02 
Reasons for voting decision: I was homeschooled and know where con stands at..
Vote Placed by 1Devilsadvocate 1 year ago
1Devilsadvocate
robertqiuArchangel35Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: F.F.
Vote Placed by ockcatdaddy 1 year ago
ockcatdaddy
robertqiuArchangel35Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: f.f. after being the host but not giving full points
Vote Placed by ConservativeAmerican 1 year ago
ConservativeAmerican
robertqiuArchangel35Tied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro FF'd so conduct to con, only con used sources (although not enough), and the FF showed that either pro was too lazy to argue back or simply didn't have the intellect, so convincing arguments also goes to con.
Vote Placed by wiploc 1 year ago
wiploc
robertqiuArchangel35Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Was going to vote S&G to Con because Pro's opening was so irritating. But Con's first post was a little rough too. And both improved. Conduct for forfeits. I thought Con had the better of the arguments, and because of the repeated forfeits, I'm not going to sweat explaining why.
Vote Placed by RyuuKyuzo 1 year ago
RyuuKyuzo
robertqiuArchangel35Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff