The Instigator
kels1123
Con (against)
Losing
28 Points
The Contender
asian_invasion
Pro (for)
Winning
54 Points

Not getting children vaccinated

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2007 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,187 times Debate No: 245
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (26)

 

kels1123

Con

I am in awe and opposed to people not getting their children vaccinated. Not getting children vaccinated is why we are suddenly having outbreaks of diseases we haven't seen in years. Since vaccines have been found, we are living longer than we ever lived in the past. There is a reason for them. To not get your children vaccinated is irresponsible. I think it should be mandated that everyone get their children vaccinated. The only vaccination that I believe should still be up to a parent is the new HPV vaccine because it is new, cost money and is not neccessary until your child starts to have sex.
asian_invasion

Pro

Vaccination is a relatively new process. For this reason, there are risks to using any vaccine. However, these vaccines are not limited to the HPV vaccine. Because of the nature of our health system, these risks should be taken into account, and the risks that a parent wants expose their children to should be their own decision.

Second of all, all public school systems and most private school systems already require the immunization of children. The fact that most parents send their children to school is clear sign that most children are already being vaccinated for the biggest diseases(such as hepatitis.)

The few parents without children attending school would not have much risk of having their child exposed to such a diesease, as the vast majority of the population (attending public or private schools) are immunized.

Therefore, it can be seen that an official mandate to REQUIRE all parents to immunize their children is unnessesary because the vast majority of our population, that attend public and private schools have already been vaccinized, and with a majority of the population immune, a spread of diesease is unlikely.
Debate Round No. 1
kels1123

Con

Not true , there are ways to get around vaccinating your children before attending school. You can state that it goes against what you believe in and you can be excused. Many parents don't have their children vaccinated. There is a sudden rise we are seeing in diseases such as measles. This occurs because children are not all being vaccinated. There are also many immigrants coming to this country with their children not getting vaccinated. It is also not fair to risk your child's health by not getting them vaccinated. Many parents that don't get their children vaccinated were vaccinated themselves. Would you rather the small chance of your child being vaccinated or risk them contracting diseases such as small pox, polio, hepatitis A , measles , mumps , rubella, hepatitis B , meningitis, some ear infections. It is more harmful for your child to contract these diseases than to actually have the vaccine. It is very rare for side effects and for the most part they are small. There is no actual evidence to link the MMR vaccine to autism.
asian_invasion

Pro

First of all, I never said that vaccines are not worth their risks. I stated that one should have the right to consider the risks, and decide what to put into their or their children's bodies. And while I'm on the topic of free choice, you brought up an important point about people being exempt to due to religious beliefs. Now, proposing a mandate that would FORCE these individuals to vaccinate against their religion is clearly in violation of their Constitutional rights.

However, lets move on to the point you brought up of certain dieseases spreading. The United States vaccination policy has used a concept known as "herd immunity" in which the majority of the population is vaccinated and immune. Now that we have established this "herd immunity," many dieseases cannot spread very far. You stated that due to lack of use for the MMR, measles cases have increased. However, because most of the American population are immunized with MMR, then these cases can be quickly contained. Therefore, our system already works, and it does not seem worth the effort to mandate vaccinations. While, yes it would have benefits, the problems that come with a mandatory vaccination make it unfeasible.

There are two levels in which mandatory vaccinations for children would be ineffective. One is on the federal level. In order to make sure that EVERY child in the United States gets the vaccinations (and future boosters to vaccinations), a great deal of effort and money needs to be spent. If you have seen our national deficit recently, along with Social security fund security, then it is clear that it is not feasible for the government to implement, and ENFORCE this vaccination policy to all children.

The second level that we can look at is on the citizen's level. While you are right, a responsible parent should get their children vaccinated (unless of moral and religous beliefs), you are assuming that every parent in America has the capability to pay for such vaccinations. This is not the case. In America, 45 MILLION americans, including 9 million children, lack health insurance. Some of the vaccines that have been mentioned, such as the HPV vaccine, consist of multiple shots. According to the Center of Diesease control, the 3 HPV shots can cost up to 360 dollars PER SHOT. Other vaccinations cost less, however, the way that you have proposed mandating vaccinations creates a long list of vaccines that must be paid by these uninsured parents. Since the incomes of many of these uninsured families are low, it is difficult to concieve a low income family paying thousands of dollars for vaccinations.
While many low-income parents will still put their Children's safety first, it should not be forced upon them to pay for EVERY ONE of the vaccines available.

Also, mandatory vaccinations will raise insurance premiums for all members of society. And many insurances might not cover all these vaccinations, therefore hurting the pockets of even the insured.

In conclusion, a mandated vaccination not only infringes upon a citizens right to religious beliefs and choice, but the costs outweigh the benefits because of simply an inability on the federal and citizen's level to pay for such vaccinations. You have stated before that parents that do not vaccinate their children are irresponsible, yet it is the duty of the parent to do what is best for their kids.
Debate Round No. 2
kels1123

Con

Sorry I accidentally posted this below ...

As for the cost of vaccinations, In my state anyway, any child in my state is eligable for Mass health if they have no insurance. I am almost caertain that all states have some form of state insurance. What if my child is an infant and I go to bring my other child who is vaccinated to a party .. One child is not vaccinated , that child has a disease from not being vaccinated and chances are so does my infant that hasnt become old enough for a vaccine yet. The parent of the child who is not vaccinated is now responsible for both their own child and my child becoming sick. There is a reason we have vaccines and if a parent abuses a child , then they are held accountable , well in my eyes risking a childs health by not getting them vaccinated is a form of abuse, although it may not be as bad as hitting a child .. it is putting your child at risk to contract a disease that is preventable. The Government should have the right to rid our country of potential disease outbreaks and threats .

Since I made the mistake of posting this below let me add more
There are also elderly that are not vaccinated because a vaccine may not have come out until after they were older, and they can't get the vaccine at their age... why should these parents be allowed to chance their children infecting others.
Someone needs to protect these children, they will have to suffer the risk and worry later on in life because their parents didnt get them proper vaccines ..I would want someone to step in and help me if my mom wasnt making sure that I was properly vaccinated as a child.
asian_invasion

Pro

Ah yes, state health insurance. Yes most states have SOME form of health insurance, however not all citizens are eligible for it. If they were, than we would not have this whole hype about Universal Healthcare Plans among the Democrats! Therefore the reasons that I gave before in 2nd round still stand.
Also you stated that all vaccines except for HPV should be made mandatory. This is quite a long list of vaccines, and insurance would not completely cover the entire list without making premiums go through the roof. This would also raise the strain on the state health insurances that you have mentioned, leading to possible raised taxes, cut education funds.

If in the event, that a diesease does pop up upon an unvaccinated population, it can be quickly controlled. It is very unlikely that a child with symptoms of measles would be allowed to contact your child at a party. Quarentine of the sick child is likely. Yes, vaccines are meant to prevent dieseases, however vaccines also work in creating "rings of immunity" around outbreaks. This is how small pox was eradicated. By immunizing in regions AROUND out breaks, the disease was contained. A similar infrastructure is already in place in the United States with our current usage of immunizations.

Now, there are carriers of dieseases with no visible symptoms. However, a person can be a carrier of diesease even with a mandatory immunization.

The government does have the right to protect the citizens of a country, however there are limits to how far the government can go. Our federal government does not have the right to completely disregard one's religious beliefs, like I said before. This is one of our base constitutional rights and would be violated if your plan were to be enacted. However, I also find it disagreeable that the government should have a right to dictate what goes into our bodies without personal choice.

I do not completely disagree with your statement about parents needing to be responsible-- in fact quite the opposite. Parents should be given their own reins to how to best protect their children, for children are the Parents responsbility, and not the responsibility of politicians in our government.

Finally, I would like to thank you for starting this debate. I found it very informative and interesting. Thanks!
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by lolwut 9 years ago
lolwut
The fact that we are having to resort to give all girls 12+ the HPV vaccination is disgusting, this shows how much of a run down state the U.K is in, the fact that it cannot even control young teenagers on drug and alcohol fuelled sexual relationships.

I know that the vaccination is shown to stop cervical cancer from developing, and I have no problem with vaccinating teenage girls that are at the age of consent (16), but not 12 year olds, thus furthermore not giving the vaccine to men, which I must press, there is less men than there are women in the U.K, is atrocious, because then men wouldn't get the disease and the women wouldn't get it off the men. Therefore I must agree with asian_invasion on this very controversial matter
Posted by liberalconservative 9 years ago
liberalconservative
Please excuse my language used for dramatic effect: obesity is this countries real problem kids are eating more and burning less. get your kids off there fat asses and do something then they might not have asthma. yes ill admit that this country has been vaguely, pussying there kids. vaccinations taken far away in range can be good for you. ill take the fat kid thing back to its just not getting your kids outside regularly is bad for them, me when i was a kid got dirty went outside played games went camping. keeping kids inside means they have not immunity. while i had immunity against the regulars i was allergic to cats and mold, i didn't take medicine so now i have to have my face in a cats fur or mold fungi to have an allergic reaction, but i still need to get vaccinations for big things.
Posted by liberalconservative 9 years ago
liberalconservative
then don't get them immunized when there too small wait till' 7 or 8
Posted by liberalconservative 9 years ago
liberalconservative
I would like to say that I am in favor of vaccination due to the fact that the rate of occurrence of the diseases that have vaccines has plummeted since the creation of said vaccines. The government doesn't have the right to force the parent to have their child take the vaccine, but we seem to leave the child's opinion out of the equation completely. Also the concept of vaccinations are not in anyway new. The first use of the concept was a use of cow pox to help immunize many people from small pox in the 1400's. Mandatory vaccinations are unconstitutional, but the right to persecute someone for endangering society as a whole is. Not to sound rude, but if you are going to try and make a compelling argument on these boards then I beg you to use the spell check button located at the bottom right of your text box as you create your comment. Just a few example;

Therefore, it can be seen that an official mandate to REQUIRE all parents to immunize their children is unnessesary because the vast majority of our population, that attend public and private schools have already been vaccinized, and with a majority of the population immune, a spread of diesease is unlikely.
Quarentine of the sick child is likely. Yes, vaccines are meant to prevent dieseases, however vaccines also work in creating "rings of immunity" around outbreaks.
My daughter (7) was not so lucky but thank God she recovered from the ITP she got from the vaccination (against my will by my throughly evil ex-wife)
The incredible lies and delaying tacticsthat the mainstream medical establishment has thrown agsint this righteous suit has been SHAMEFUL
Posted by parkerdoc 9 years ago
parkerdoc
You need to do more research. Sanitation habits and policies in this country are more responsible in the decline of disease that immunizations. In fact, one of the largest health concerns today, that of asthmas and allergies are due to us usrping the bodies immune system by immunizing children. You drank the kool aid.
The body was not designed to be exposed to the measels, mumps or rubella, or any other pathogen, via the blood stream. We were desinged to inhale them or get them in our mucous membranes. We they are injected into our bloodstreams, we start an immune cascade that leads to IGE response instead of IGG.
Immunizations are a scam. Healthy immune systems are the only real answer, and immunization injure the immune system
Posted by cloppbeast 9 years ago
cloppbeast
There still exists concerns that vaccinations at a young age could cause autism also.
Posted by impactyourworld89 9 years ago
impactyourworld89
Vaccinating should NEVER be mandatory. It is not the government's job to tell a parent how to raise their child.
As far as the problems with the vaccines themselves, I have three younger sisters. my sister closest to me and myself were both vaccinated and we were always sick as kids. Yet my two youngest sisters have not had a single vaccination in their life and are very healthy. Also, just recently one of the shots was recalled in my area because of health risks. That does not seem very safe and I would not want to risk it.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Im sorry your daughter had a reaction , there is always the slight chance of a side effect, but as you said she recovered (Thank God ) As far as the lawsuit , that as I said is just a claim by parents ,no proof ..because as I explained you get the MMR shot at the same time that autism signs start to show. How do you explain that it happens to mainly boys? Both are vaccinated ...

sidenote... I would get my daughter vaccinated regardless of my husbands wishes as well , I dont think its an evil thing , its a concern for your child, but thats a different debate and lucky for me , my husband and I have the same views about vaccinations as his uncle is handicapped from meningitis , which he could now be vaccinated against .. his life will never be the same as it was when he was born healthy as can be. He almost died and
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
You must note that vaccinations are a 13 BILLION $ a year industry and are the ONLY way to get $ out of kids when they are young through FORCED medical intervention

Right now they are trying to introduce another 37 different vaccines here in California ! Including Hep B and HPV and other things you can only get through sex or blood contact!

It is a nightmare with NO concern for the kids health- only MONEY!
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Kels1123 Here are some links for you

http://www.healing-arts.org...

http://www.autismwebsite.com...

Here is a link to the LAWSUIT
http://www.boston.com...

Sorry to make the assumption that you are not a parent, and that the vaccines didnt harm your little angel :)

My daughter (7) was not so lucky but thank God she recovered from the ITP she got from the vaccination (against my will by my throughly evil ex-wife)
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