The Instigator
Magnatrix
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Champybeat
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Nothing truly lasts forever.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Champybeat
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/13/2017 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 522 times Debate No: 104984
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

Magnatrix

Pro

We live in a universe of entropy. A place that by definition will break down into disorder no matter what. It is because of this I find it hard to believe that anything could live past our universes day of death (or near it). Now my question to con is; is there anything by definition that can live forever truly? (Inanimate objects count) Also this is my first debate so thank you for accepting this. (I don't intend to win so long as I learn something new).
Champybeat

Con

Hello.
I believe this ultimately rests upon your worldview. The physical universe cannot naturally exist forever, no, but what about something beyond the natural? For example, I do believe humans will exist forever by the will of an omnipotent God (who also has no end [and had no beginning]) - that is, we will be resurrected and spend eternity based on our acception of rejection of Christ and his atoning work for us (his death and resurrection made forgiveness of sins possible). And, I believe, in a sense, this universe will last forever, but by supernatural intervention. As a Christian, I believe God will restore his creation, making a new heavens and a new earth; I believe there will be continuity and discontinuity when this happens (concerning this universe). So, the question comes down to our foundational beliefs: 'what is our worldview?' will answer the question, 'Will anything last forever?'.
Debate Round No. 1
Magnatrix

Pro

I was planning on sticking with stuff of the natural realm, but sure lets go with your train of thought "what about something beyond the natural?" I find god specifically the one your talking about to be tantamount to fiction. Mostly because the three omni's (I.E. Omnipotence) used when describing him/her are paradoxes therefore making such being existing contradictory to what we know. That aside this isn't an argument on the existence of god, but more on if anything can last forever. So the subject of god aside say they're is an afterlife (likely one that doesn't have a god) ,can we say for certain that said afterlife will last forever or once you die are you still the same being from that universe? Will you just die eventually there even after finding out said realm doesn't have entropy?
Champybeat

Con

I. To comment on your tangent on the Christian God (i.e. concerning the three "omnis"), I would need a specific example how they are supposedly contradicting, rather than a baseless assertion.
II. I"m curious as to how you conclude if an afterlife exists, it most likely doesn"t involve God. If you are asking me: "What if there is an afterlife without God?" I would actually have to agree with you; due to me believing the afterlife exists because God wills it, I cannot believe in one apart from him - hence, i do not believe in an afterlife without the Deity involved.
III. "Will you just die [. . .] after finding out [. . .]?" What do you mean "finding out"? If there is no afterlife, we never will figure out, for after death we would cease to exist - remembering absolutely nothing.
IV. I understand now that you wanted to focus on this physical universe, but of course, the topic was "Nothing truly lasts for ever", and so, I took everything into account (e.g. God). Just to know your position, if God exists, do you believe it possible that he can exist forever (i.e. no beginning, no end)? Or do you believe this isn"t possible, even for God?
Debate Round No. 2
Magnatrix

Pro

I concede the debate commenter @tfroitz1 is correct. After doing some research on the big crunch, and all the top hypothesis's on the end of the universe. I agree with them and that of a lot of other researchers. The current top hypothesis for the end of nearly all means the energy in this universe will still exist, and because of that fails my side of the topic.

(I will send the omni paradoxes *"(info on them and my thoughts,)" to you in a message later I'm currently busy with work and Christmas shopping ,etc.)
Champybeat

Con

The Second Law of Thermodynamics contradicts your hypothesis that energy will continue to exist (and are you trying to assert that energy will continue to exist without space and time?). And again, this assertion is based on purely naturalistic/materialistic assumptions (i.e. apart from God).

Thank you for the discussion; I must address the reason i discuss with you is not to win an argument, but attempt to open your mind to the existence of a Creator, and lead you to the Christ. For we are sinners. But the merciful God sent his Son to die on the cross to save us from our sins, and was resurrected three days later - making forgiveness and salvation possible. If we put our faith in Christ and his saving work for us, we will be saved. And the primary gift we are given at salvation is God himself; for ultimate satisfaction and supreme happiness is found in God alone through Christ alone. Forever, all because of Christ Jesus, we can enjoy God and bring glory to him. For as Piper says, 'God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in him'. We are saved by the grace of God alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Thank you for the discussion; a pleasure speaking with you.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by whiteflame 2 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Con by default!

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD
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Posted by tfroitz1 8 months ago
tfroitz1
I am sorry, but it hasn't anything to do with believe. we know that humans will for sure not be eternal, because we can see that the Andromeda galaxy is on direct collision course to ours and by the time it reaches us, the sun will have many times as much size, making it absolutely certain that the human race will, as well as live on earth, get extinct.
But maybe your god has a good idea, on how to change that. That would actually be the first time anyone would have observe this fictional god.

Now the problem with pros argument is that even though he is right and the universe will go toward a heat death it isn't the end of the universe. The at the moment most fitting models for our observed universe go from negative infinity to positive infinity and even if the universe had a beginning the physical laws are clear that it will go on for ever. Therefore I have to agree with con even though his argument is false.
Posted by Zlatanq8 8 months ago
Zlatanq8
I think it all goes to what you believe. There are so many unknowns, there should be answers to these unknowns. Hence, God.

You cannot stay in the natural realm because there is a necessity for a believe. The fact that you are writing in this website you are believing that you will get a debate, otherwise you wouldn't bother writing. So, believing is the most fundamental step in our life.

I believe that we, the most complicated machines on earth, were created by God. Of course, even the most tiny machine has a manual and instructions that tell you how it works. Thus, God revealed several books from several messengers for us to instruct us and to answer some of the unknowns.

From these books and instructions, God mentioned that there is a Day of Judgment/Afterlife , in which people who have done bad will be punished, and those who have done good will be rewarded (otherwise its unfair for the good people in this earth to be equated with the bad people after they die, right?).

Back to the original question, yes, temporarily, nothing lasts forever except God. However, we will return to God on the day of judgment and live the afterlife for eternity.
Posted by missmedic 8 months ago
missmedic
Magnatrix
The foot prints that men left on the moon, will last as long as the moon lasts.
Champybeat
Sorry to hear about your god getting killed, but he can't be a very good god if he can be killed.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 months ago
dsjpk5
MagnatrixChampybeatTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro appears to concede the Pro position is false (in round three) by saying energy will remain for all eternity.