The Instigator
Corridon
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
1 Points

Obama Administration's IRS Scandal is Alone Worthy of Impeachment

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/26/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 863 times Debate No: 34220
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

Corridon

Pro

I wish to thank you for your consideration in debating me on this topic. This is the format for the debate:

Round 1: Acceptance only.
Round 2: Arguments only.
Round 3: Rebuttals only.
Round 4: Closing Arguments and Rebuttals.
————————

Good luck,
~Corridon.

Note: This debate is on both the AP Phone Records scandal and the IRS targeting conservative groups for political reasons.
imabench

Con

I accept and will argue that the scandals in question only exemplify the inefficiency of government rather then somehow justify the impeachment of Obama
Debate Round No. 1
Corridon

Pro


I wish to thank Con for accepting this debate.



The reason why the Watergate scandal had such a resonance with history was because nobody thought that their President would be so desperate to win an election that he would bug phones, conversation rooms, and steal documents at Democrat headquarters in Watergate Hotel. It was an event which would mark Nixon’s presidency for the rest of his life. It smudged him and his descendants’ character for decades.


Not wanting to be the second President ever to be impeached, President Nixon resigned from the Presidency, avoiding impeachment (7).


Forty years later, in the wake of the Benghazi Scandal, the Obama Administration authorizes agents to bug phone lines and conversation rooms in the Associated Press. Not only that, they steal thousands and thousands of phone records, documents, and files from journalists that they thought would potentially expose the truth of the Benghazi Scandal.


They listen on every conversation, spying on honest journalists, and stealing their documents and abusing their first amendment rights. The DOJ had no excuse for these actions, except to illegally classify the reporters as criminals, which was an abuse of power.


Even still being investigated, the Obama administration has its hands too dirty in this mess to climb out without using more corruption. If this, a scandal a hundred times worse than the Watergate yet of same structure, is not enough to get a president impeached, then I don’t know what is.


(8)


However, I’ll continue on with a favorite of all juicy scandals.



The date is March 31, 2010. IRS Union Boss Colleen Kelly visits the White House for a secret meeting with President Obama and White House Officials (1). One day later, IRS begins the deliberate targeting of Conservative political groups, pro-life ministries, and non-profit charity organizations such as Samaritan’s Purse and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association (2).


The following questions arise: Why were they there? Was it simply a coincidence? Did Obama know from the start? Well, we tried to get answers from a Senior IRS official who was there, and knew about the illegal targeting of non-profit organizations for political reasons, at a Congressional hearing. Of course, instead of getting answers, we got non-cooperation. “Pleading the Fifth”, as everyone calls it.


Alright, so to do a quick summary, we assume for near 100% certainty that Barack Obama knew about the targeting of Conservative groups. Maybe he’ll own up about it, and admit his faults, and everyone will be happy again! Right? Well, no. In Mr. President’s exact words to the press, he said that he learned about it while “Watching TV” “Last Friday” (4).


Remember that this wasn’t simply a few non-profit groups that were accidentally taxed by low-level officials as Obama administration officials want you to think. Approved from the top, Senior IRS Officials and Obama’s cabinet, was a list of criteria to target non-profit organizations. Of these included:


~Any group that referenced words such as “Tea Party”, “Patriots”, or “9/12 Project” in their case file.


~Any group that outlined issues in the application that included government spending, government debt, or taxes.


~Any group that did advocating or lobbying to “Make America a Better Place to Live”.


~Any group that had statements in their case file that criticize how the country is being run.


~Any group that advocated education about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.


~Any group that was focused on challenging Obamacare.


~Any group that questioned the integrity of federal elections.


(5)


Remember this is a list of criteria. Who is going to be directly targeted by the IRS in election season. I’m not going to digress and move to conspiracy theories, but this questions the legitimacy of the Obama Administration, which in my opinion is corrupt to the core.


This was a list approved from the tippy-top. From Obama Administration officials and senior IRS officials, and as we assume from the meeting, Obama approved it, too.


This is in direct violation of IRS protocol and federal law (6). It is criminal, and the people responsible must be held responsible, which is why I believe that this scandal is enough to impeach the Obama Administration.




(1) http://www.thegatewaypundit.com...



(2) http://www.christianpost.com...



(3) http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...



(4) http://hotair.com...



(5) http://www.washingtonpost.com...



(6) 26 CFR 1.501(c)(4)-1(a)(2)(i)



(7) http://en.wikipedia.org...



(8) http://bigstory.ap.org...


imabench

Con

"Forty years later, in the wake of the Benghazi Scandal, the Obama Administration authorizes agents to bug phone lines and conversation rooms in the Associated Press. Not only that, they steal thousands and thousands of phone records, documents, and files from journalists that they thought would potentially expose the truth of the Benghazi Scandal."

First off, the Obama Administration did not bug phone lines and conversation rooms. What happened was the Justice Department subpoenaed the phone records of AP reporters in search of a leaker of a classified report, and they overstepped their authority by quite a large margin.

Secondly, there is no 'truth' to the Benghazi scandal, the Benghazi scandal is nothing more then the breakdown of adding security measures at one of thousands of US embassy's that Republicans chose to make a big deal out of just to make Obama look bad. There is no conspiracy or truth that AP somehow knows about, thats just bullsh*t.

"They listen on every conversation, spying on honest journalists, and stealing their documents and abusing their first amendment rights."

Literally none of that is true.....

"The DOJ had no excuse for these actions, except to illegally classify the reporters as criminals, which was an abuse of power."

Nobody has been classified as a criminal though, all that happened was a crapload of phone records were seized for a single investigation by the DOJ which turned out to be a simple overstepping of government authority....

"Even still being investigated, the Obama administration has its hands too dirty in this mess to climb out without using more corruption"

Complete speculation and nothing more then an idiotic and unsupported conspiracy theory

"If this, a scandal a hundred times worse than the Watergate yet of same structure"

Ok now youre just being retarded....

"The date is March 31, 2010. IRS Union Boss Colleen Kelly visits the White House for a secret meeting with President Obama and White House Officials (1). One day later, IRS begins the deliberate targeting of Conservative political groups, pro-life ministries, and non-profit charity organizations such as Samaritan’s Purse and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association (2)."

Your first source is a biased website who goes out of their way to try to make Obama look bad, and your second source is citing a letter written to Obama by Franklin Graham who thinks its a conspiracy just because the timing was a coincidence. Even if Kelly did meet with Obama, there is zero evidence to imply that a conspiracy was arranged and enacted in complete secrecy the very next day.

"we tried to get answers from a Senior IRS official who was there, and knew about the illegal targeting of non-profit organizations for political reasons, at a Congressional hearing. Of course, instead of getting answers, we got non-cooperation. “Pleading the Fifth”, as everyone calls it."

1) Its unknown if the targeting was done for political reasons so stop implying that it was when you continue to not back up such ludicrous claims with a shred of evidence....

2) If anything this implies that this senior IRS official is to blame for this scandal and not Obama.

"Alright, so to do a quick summary, we assume for near 100% certainty that Barack Obama knew about the targeting of Conservative groups."

No we dont, youre the only one here who thinks that and your basing that conclusion off of absolutely no evidence at all.

"I’m not going to digress and move to conspiracy theories,"

Wait, NOW youre not going to move to conspiracy theories??? Your entire argument is one big bs conspiracy theory!

"this questions the legitimacy of the Obama Administration, which in my opinion is corrupt to the core."

Your 'opinion' is also the driving force behind your argument too, and frankly its barely grounded in reality at all

"This was a list approved from the tippy-top"

Unsubstantiated opinion...

"From Obama Administration officials and senior IRS officials, and as we assume from the meeting, Obama approved it, too."

Unsubstantiated opinion...

=========================================================================

Allow me to explain what has ACTUALLY happened regarding these scandals of the AP phone records and the IRS targeting the Tea Party since pro doesnt seem to have any idea of what is really going on:

AP Phones: The Department of Justice subpoenaed a crap load of phone records as part of a case trying to track down a lead that leaked something classified to AP themselves. However they subpoenaed WAY more then they needed and overstepped the boundary of how much they could legally subpoena. This is a misstep of the Department of Justice who are accountable for this act, Obama has absolutely nothing to do with it and the claim that AP was silenced to keep the truth of Bengazi from coming to light is something only a complete idiot would believe.

http://www.foxnews.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

IRS targeting the Tea Party: The IRS placed extra scrutiny on granting tax exempted status to Tea Party organizations who were seeking it because it is the duty of the IRS to examine groups applying for tax exemption by claiming political freedom. The problem was they too overstepped the boundaries of what they were allowed to look into, but once again there is absolutely no evidence to suggest Obama put them up to this or that the extra scrutiny was done purely for political reasons. All that happened was that the IRS went overboard in collecting info about specific Tes Party groups seeking tax exempt status.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://news.yahoo.com...

All in all, there is not a shred of evidence that conclusively shows that Obama personally ordered either of these incidents to be carried out. Instead what happened was that different agencies of government significantly overstepped their authority in doing their job, meaning that if anyone is to be scrutinized or punished it is the agencies that committed the crimes in first place, and not President Barack Obama.

Obama is not responsible for the messes, and he didnt create them either. Therefore the IRS scandal and the AP phone records scandal falls drastically short of being an impeachable offense for Obama, and those who think so are either political hacks or have no idea what really happened in the scandals.
Debate Round No. 2
Corridon

Pro

Corridon forfeited this round.
imabench

Con

dammit to hell
Debate Round No. 3
Corridon

Pro

Corridon forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by wrichcirw 3 years ago
wrichcirw
CorridonimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: "Arrrg"