The Instigator
Maryland_Kid
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
GarretKadeDupre
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Obama Care is a disaster

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Maryland_Kid
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/26/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 934 times Debate No: 42974
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

Maryland_Kid

Pro

Obama Care, also known as the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act, is a disaster for several reasons.

One, working Americas usually pay me in premiums for other people to get subsidies. [1] This is eliminates the incentive to work. Two, some companies, especially small businesses, can't pay for all of their full time workers to have a certain amount of care so they have to fire full time workers and hire a lot of part time workers. [2][3] Third, the website for using Obama Care failed. [4] Fourth, the bill is so large that not many people read the whole thing in Congress. [5] Fifth, the people that run the IRS, the public schools, the post office, and the Federal Government run the health care system. A lot of those programs are into a lot of debt, have no competition or accountability and have too much power to run our lives. [6] Sixth, it adds to our debt. [7] Seventh, there is a doctor shortage with the increase in demand coming. [8] Eighth, some people couldn't keep their health care plan unlike what Obama promised. [9] Ninth, Obama Care implementation has terrible effects on the economy. [10] Whatever the solution for health care is, it's not what we have currently with the Affordable Care Act.

[1]http://www.cbsnews.com...
[2] http://www.advisorperspectives.com...
[3]http://www.reuters.com...
[4]http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[5]http://union-bulletin.com...
[6]http://www.creators.com...
[7]http://www.nationalreview.com...
[8]http://www.cnn.com...
[9]http://www.politifact.com...
[10]http://www.wnd.com...
GarretKadeDupre

Con

Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Well, thank you, Maryland_Kid. And thanks to everybody here for coming on this beautiful day.
  • "some companies, especially small businesses, can't pay for all of their full time workers to have a certain amount of care so they have to fire full time workers and hire a lot of part time workers."
Because you’re a small businessperson and you have to go out on the individual market and buy it on your own and it’s just too expensive -- October 1st was an important date. That’s when we opened the new marketplaces where people without health insurance, or who can’t afford health insurance, or who aren’t part of a group plan, can finally start getting affordable coverage.
  • "Third, the website for using Obama Care failed."
Of course, you’ve probably heard that HealthCare.gov –- the new website where people can apply for health insurance, and browse and buy affordable plans in most states –- hasn't worked as smoothly as it was supposed to work. And the number of people who have visited the site has been overwhelming, which has aggravated some of these underlying problems.

Despite all that, thousands of people are signing up and saving money as we speak. Many Americans with a preexisting condition are discovering that they can finally get health insurance like everybody else.

I want to tell you what we’re doing to make it work better and how you can sign up to get covered in other ways.

But before I do that, let me remind everybody that the Affordable Care Act is not just a website. It's much more. For the vast majority of Americans -- for 85 percent of Americans who already have health insurance through your employer or Medicare or Medicaid -– you don’t need to sign up for coverage through a website at all. You've already got coverage. What the Affordable Care Act does for you is to provide you with new benefits and protections that have been in place for some time. You may not know it, but you're already benefiting from these provisions in the law.

Another part of the Affordable Care Act is providing seniors with deeper discounts on their prescription medicine. Billions of dollars have been saved by seniors already. That’s part of the law. It’s already in place. It’s happening right now.
  • "Fourth, the bill is so large that not many people read the whole thing in Congress."
The way we’ve set it up, there are no more absurdly long application forms. There’s no medical history questionnaire that goes on for pages and pages.
  • "Fifth, the people that run the IRS, the public schools, the post office, and the Federal Government run the health care system. A lot of those programs are into a lot of debt, have no competition or accountability and have too much power to run our lives."
  • "Sixth, it adds to our debt."
Tax breaks have not been paid for by reductions in Federal spending, and thus the only way to pay for them has been to increase our deficit to historically high levels and borrow more and more money.
  • "Seventh, there is a doctor shortage with the increase in demand coming."

You like your doctor, you like your plan — you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.

  • "Eighth, some people couldn't keep their health care plan unlike what Obama promised."
I am sorry that they are finding themselves in this situation based on assurances they got from me. We've got to work hard to make sure that they know we hear them and we are going to do everything we can to deal with folks who find themselves in a tough position as a consequence of this.
  • "Ninth, Obama Care implementation has terrible effects on the economy."
I recognize that the Republican Party has made blocking the Affordable Care Act its signature policy idea. In fact, they were willing to shut down the government and potentially harm the global economy to try to get it repealed.
  • "Whatever the solution for health care is, it's not what we have currently with the Affordable Care Act."
I’ve said many times -- I’m willing to work with anyone on any idea to make this law perform even better.
Debate Round No. 1
Maryland_Kid

Pro

I forgot to add another problem. The problem with Obama Care is that it thinks everyone can afford health care insurance. This is not true. You can't expect the employer of a low wage, full time worker at McDonald's to be able to pay for all the health care coverage. If they could afford it, they would do it. They force you to buy things that you personally wouldn't need just to pay for the collective. There's not some greedy capitalist conspiracy going on. The health care purchase mandate fails.

Obama has delayed the federal "SHOP" or Small Business Exchange Program until November 2014. Even though the State exchanges are still running, some are not completely working or cover you throughout the entire state. [1]

CBS show, "This Morning," still finds out that the recieving end of the insurance companies relating to the healthcare.gov website (Obama Care) haven't got any information yet on it. [2][3]][4]

Applications have nothing to do with the complexity of the bill itself.

We would cut spending, but the Democrats won't allow any cuts to Obama Care, Entitlements, or education. Actually, when you cut taxes, you get more economic growth that leads to more revenue.

Not everyone kept their doctor. It's plain not true.

I don't approve of a government shutdown like some Republicans did, but that's besides the point.

Obama refuses to negotiate with Conservatives or Libertarians on health care. [5]

[1]http://www.shrm.org...
[2]http://freebeacon.com...
[3]http://www.cbsnews.com...
[4]http://www.hhs.gov...
[5]http://canadafreepress.com...
GarretKadeDupre

Con

Over the last two months, Washington’s been dominated by some pretty contentious debates, I think that’s fair to say. And between a reckless shutdown by congressional Republicans in an effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act and, admittedly, poor execution on my administration’s part in implementing the latest stage of the new law, nobody has acquitted themselves very well these past few months. So it’s not surprising that the American people’s frustrations with Washington are at an all-time high.



  • The problem with Obama Care is that it thinks everyone can afford health care insurance. This is not true.”


That’s why we have unemployment insurance, because it makes a difference for a father who lost his job and is out there looking for a new one that he can keep a roof over his kids’ heads.


The premise that we’re all created equal is the opening line in the American story. And while we don’t promise equal outcomes, we’ve strived to deliver equal opportunity -- the idea that success doesn’t depend on being born into wealth or privilege, it depends on effort and merit.



  • Obama has delayed the federal "SHOP" or Small Business Exchange Program until November 2014. Even though the State exchanges are still running, some are not completely working or cover you throughout the entire state.”

  • CBS show, "This Morning," still finds out that the recieving end of the insurance companies relating to the healthcare.gov website (Obama Care) haven't got any information yet on it.”


I’ve acknowledged more than once that we didn’t roll out parts of this law as well as we should have. But the law’s already working in major ways that benefit millions of Americans right now, even as we’ve begun to slow the rise in health care costs, which is good for family budgets, good for federal and state budgets and good for the budgets of businesses, small and large.


So this law’s going to work.



  • We would cut spending, but the Democrats won't allow any cuts to Obama Care, Entitlements, or education. Actually, when you cut taxes, you get more economic growth that leads to more revenue.”


Some programs in the past, like welfare before it was reformed, were sometimes poorly designed, created disincentives to work, but we’ve also seen how government action time and again can make an enormous difference in increasing opportunity and bolstering ladders into the middle class. Investments in education, laws establishing collective bargaining and a minimum wage -- these all contributed to rising standards of living for massive numbers of Americans.


We need to dispel the myth that the goals of growing the economy and reducing inequality are necessarily in conflict when they should actually work in concert.


We know from our history that our economy grows best from the middle out when growth is more widely shared. And we know that beyond a certain level of inequality growth actually slows altogether.



  • Not everyone kept their doctor. It's plain not true.”


You know, Dr. King once said, “Of all the forms of inequality, injustice in health care is the most shocking and inhumane.” Well, not anymore, because in the three years since we passed this law, the share of Americans with insurance is up, the growth of health care costs are down to their slowest rate in 50 years, more people have insurance, and more have new benefits and protections, a hundred million Americans who’ve gained the right for free preventive care like mammograms and contraception, the more than 7 million Americans who’ve saved an average of $1,200 on their prescription medicine, every American who won’t go broke when they get sick because their insurance can’t limit their care anymore. More people without insurance have gained insurance, more than 3 million young Americans who’ve been able to stay on their parents’ plan, the more than half a million Americans and counting who are poised to get coverage starting on January 1st, some for the very first time.



  • Obama refuses to negotiate with Conservatives or Libertarians on health care.”


If Republicans have concrete plans that will actually reduce inequality, build the middle class, provide moral ladders of opportunity to the poor, let’s hear them. I want to know what they are.


If you still don’t like “Obamacare” -- and I know you don’t -- even though it’s built on market-based ideas of choice and competition and the private sector, then you should explain how exactly you’d cut costs and cover more people and make insurance more secure. You owe it to the American people to tell us what you are for, not just what you’re against. That way, we can have a vigorous and meaningful debate. That’s what the American people deserve. That’s what the times demand. It’s not enough anymore to just say we should get our government out of the way and let the unfettered market take care of it, for our experience tells is that’s just not true.

Debate Round No. 2
Maryland_Kid

Pro

Unemployment insurance or subsidized coverage run by the government is destined to fail. It encourages laziness, has no accountability, and wins the voters' vote who is receiving it. There are better alternatives like mutual aid societies where workers pay part of their salaries to the organization and later use it when they need it. [1] If you don't work and don't plan on working, you shouldn't be allowed to have it. Government allows this to happen.

Subsidies cause an extra burden on those who have earned their health care. A lot of young and healthy people were counted on it enter the exchanges, but they can't afford it. This causes the system to collapse, because those who are paying for it don't want to get it anymore. It would hurt the economy. [2]

The free market isn't 100% fair, but not everyone is equal. Some jobs pay more or are more important then others. It turns out that when time passes for the working poor Americans, their income increases in mobility in larger steps than the wealthier born Americans. This is in spite of the more affluent Americans growing faster than the less fortunate. [3]

People give more when they are not taxed. The Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis proved this. [4]

The 1.1 Million people that have health care coverage according to the White House recently. [5] This is
This is lower than the 3.3 Million that Obama Administration projected. [6]

Health care maybe increasing at a slower rate than ever, but that's still a big price you have to pay. The creation of Medicare and Medicaid, not paying the doctor directly, longer life span, and government subsidies is the likely source of the problem. [7]

[1]http://mises.org...
[2]http://www.newsmax.com...
[3]http://www.stlouisfed.org...
[4]http://research.stlouisfed.org...
[5]http://www.foxnews.com...
[6]http://www.theblaze.com...
[7]http://mercatus.org...
GarretKadeDupre

Con

Unemployment insurance or subsidized coverage run by the government is destined to fail. It encourages laziness, has no accountability, and wins the voters' vote who is receiving it. […] If you don't work and don't plan on working, you shouldn't be allowed to have it.”

Keep in mind unemployment insurance only goes to folks who are actively looking for work, a mom who needs help feeding her kids when she sends out her resumes or a dad who needs help paying the rent while working part-time and still earning the skills he needs for that new job.

Subsidies cause an extra burden on those who have earned their health care. A lot of young and healthy people were counted on it enter the exchanges, but they can't afford it. This causes the system to collapse, because those who are paying for it don't want to get it anymore.”

First, there is the myth that this is a problem restricted to a small share of predominantly minority poor. This isn’t a broad-based problem; this is a black problem or Hispanic problem or a Native American problem.

Now, it’s true that the painful legacy of discrimination means that African-Americans, Latinos, Native Americans are far more likely to suffer from a lack of opportunity -- higher unemployment, higher poverty rates. It’s also true that women still make 77 cents on the dollar compared to men.

So we’re going to need strong application of anti-discrimination laws. We’re going to need immigration reform that grows the economy and takes people out of the shadows. We’re going to need targeted initiatives to close those gaps.

The free market isn't 100% fair, but not everyone is equal.”

This trend towards growing inequality is not unique to America’s market economy; across the developed world, inequality has increased. Some of you may have seen just last week, the pope himself spoke about this at eloquent length.

America is a place where, even if you’re born with nothing, with a little hard work, you can improve your own situation over time and build something better to leave your kids.

When time passes for the working poor Americans, their income increases in mobility in larger steps than the wealthier born Americans. This is in spite of the more affluent Americans growing faster than the less fortunate.”

Some of the social patterns that contribute to declining mobility, that were once attributed to the urban poor -- you know, that’s a particular problem for the inner city, you know, single-parent households or drug abuse -- it turns out now we’re seeing that pop up everywhere.

A new study shows that disparities in education, mental health, obesity, absent fathers, isolation from church, isolation from community groups -- these gaps are now as much about growing up rich or poor as they are about anything else. The gap in test scores between poor kids and wealthy kids is now nearly twice what it is between white kids and black kids. Kids with working-class parents are 10 times likelier than kids with middle- or upper-class parents to go through a time when their parents have no income.

So the fact is this: The opportunity gap in America is now as much about class as it is about race. And that gap is growing. So if we’re going to take on growing inequality and try to improve upward mobility for all people, we’ve got to move beyond the false notion that this is an issue exclusively of minority concern. And we have to reject a politics that suggests any effort to address it in a meaningful way somehow pits the interests of a deserving middle class against those of an undeserving poor in search of handouts.

People give more when they are not taxed. The Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis proved this.”

Our tax code is fairer and our fiscal situation is firmer, with deficits that are now less than half of what they were.

The 1.1 Million people that have health care coverage according to the White House recently.
This is lower than the 3.3 Million that Obama Administration projected.”

The basic structure of that law is working, despite all the problems. Despite the website problems, despite the messaging problems, despite all that, it's working. And again, you don't have to take my word for it. We've got a couple million people who are going to have health insurance just in the first three months, despite the fact that probably the first month and a half was lost because of problems with the website and about as bad a bunch of publicity as you could imagine.

And yet, you've still got 2 million people who signed up -- or more. And so, what that means, then, is that the demand is there, and as I said before, the product is good.

Now, in putting something like this together, there are going to be all kinds of problems that crop up, some of which may have been unanticipated. And what we've been trying to do is just respond to them in a common-sense way, and we're going to continue to try to do that. But that doesn't negate the fact that, you know, a year from now or two years from now, when we look back, we're going to be able to say that even more people have health insurance who didn't have it before.

And that's not a bad thing; that's a good thing. That is part of the reason why I pushed so hard to get this law done in the first place. And -- you know, I've said before that this is a messy process. And I think, sometimes, when I say that, people say, well, A, yeah, it's real messy, and B, you know, isn't -- isn't the fact that it's been so messy some indication that there are more fundamental problems with the law?

And I guess what I'd say to that, Chuck, is, when you try to do something this big affecting this many people, it's going to be hard. And every instance -- whether it's Social Security, Medicare, the prescription drug plan under President Bush -- there hasn't been an instance where you've tried to really have an impact on the American peoples' lives and well-being, particularly in the health care arena where you don't end up having some of these challenges.

The question is going to be, ultimately, do we make good decisions trying to help as many people as possible in as efficient a way as possible? And I think that's what we're doing.

I don’t pretend that this plan will solve all our problems. It should not be, nor will it be, the last plan of action we propose. What’s guided us from the start of this crisis hasn’t been the search for a silver bullet. It’s been a commitment to stay at it -- to be persistent -- to keep trying every new idea that works, and listen to every good proposal, no matter which party comes up with it.

Regardless of the arguments we’ve had in the past, regardless of the arguments we will have in the future, this plan is the right thing to do right now.

Health care maybe increasing at a slower rate than ever, but that's still a big price you have to pay. The creation of Medicare and Medicaid, not paying the doctor directly, longer life span, and government subsidies is the likely source of the problem.”

Without Social Security nearly half of seniors would be living in poverty -- half. Today fewer than 1 in 10 do. Before Medicare, only half of all seniors had some form of health insurance. Today virtually all do. And because we’ve strengthened that safety net and expanded pro-work and pro- family tax credits like the Earned Income Tax Credit, a recent study found that the poverty rate has fallen by 40 percent since the 1960s.

What kind of country would this be if this chamber had voted down Social Security or Medicare just because it violated some rigid idea about what government could or could not do?

These endeavors didn’t just make us a better country; they reaffirmed that we are a great country.

President Kennedy once said, “Our problems are man-made –- therefore they can be solved by man. And man can be as big as he wants.”

These are difficult years for our country. But we are Americans. We are tougher than the times we live in, and we are bigger than our politics have been. So let’s meet the moment. Let’s get to work, and let’s show the world once again why the United States of America remains the greatest nation on Earth.

Debate Round No. 3
Maryland_Kid

Pro

If you're going to need money to get by, use private charity. It works better because it's their money. They don't have to worry about getting votes.

Racism isn't as bad as it was before the civil right area. Minorities like Hispanics, Native Americans, and African Americans are usually the victims of their own decisions whether that was based on past racism or not, but it's not the White person's fault. Asians are considered a minority, but they do better in life that Whites. If Obama was supposed to close those gaps whether that would be racial, economic, or corporate versus small business, it has gotten worse under his watch. [1][2][3][4]

We're still 2.2 million short of the projected goal of 3.3 million by the Obama Adminstration.

I support privatizing Social Security, but that's off topic.

Despite the claims that there are no "death panels" that Sarah Palin was mocked for saying, there was. Anthony Strokes was denied a heart transplant because of her history of law breaking and poor grades. [5] Ellie Porter, a six year old girl was unable to afford health care insurance or keep her doctors. [6] Senior citizens are being denied, delayed care, and cheapened the quality of their medicare coverage because of Obama Care. [7] An obese girl with a rare hypothamic obesity condition in Texas is being denied a gastric bypass surgery, who's covered by the military, won't pay for the surgery because she's too young. [8] Because of the coverage for pre-existing conditions, costs are being increased to cover them. Out of pocket costs are going up for each person with preexisting, so those with preexisting conditions are being rationed or denied. [9]

Most doctors don't like Obama Care. 83% have considered quiting and 90% say that healthcare is going onto the wrong track. [10]

The Senate Democrats cut the "grandfather clause" that Obama said would be in there. This would allow people who already like their insurance to keep it. [11]

Medicaid related companies are making a lot of money off of the Patient Protected Affordable Care Act while private medical companies are not. This is a monopoly devoid of competition and work ethic.

[1]http://www.nytimes.com...
[2]http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[3]http://www.businessinsider.com...
[4]http://smallbusiness.house.gov...
[5]http://www.foxnews.com...
[6]http://www.mrconservative.com...
[7]http://socialsecurityinstitute.com...
[8]http://www.nbcnews.com...
[9]http://cnsnews.com...
[10]http://www.ijreview.com...
[11]http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...
[12]http://www.ijreview.com...
GarretKadeDupre

Con

  • If Obama was supposed to close those gaps whether that would be racial, economic, or corporate versus small business, it has gotten worse under his watch.”

All the parade of horribles, the worst predictions about healthcare reform never came true. They’re the same arguments you’re hearing now. Businesses didn’t stop covering workers. The share of employers who offered insurance increased. People didn’t get left behind. Racial disparities decreased. Care didn’t become unaffordable. Costs tracked what was happening in other places that wasn’t covering everybody.

  • Despite the claims that there are no "death panels" that Sarah Palin was mocked for saying, there was.”

Most Republicans have made a whole bunch of predictions about this law that haven't come through. There are no death panels.

When I have people who just a couple of years ago thought this was a good idea now getting on television suggesting that it’s a plot against Grandma or to sneak euthanasia into our health care system, that feels dishonest to me.

  • Out of pocket costs are going up for each person with preexisting, so those with preexisting conditions are being rationed or denied.”

This new marketplace was built on the Mass. Model. It allows these Americans who have been locked out to get a better deal from insurers. They are pooling their purchasing power as one big group and insurers want their business, which means they give em a better deal. And they compete for that business.
And as a result insurers in the marketplace they can’t use your medical history to charge you more.
If you’ve been sick you finally have the same chance to buy quality affordable healthcare same as everybody else.

  • Most doctors don't like Obama Care. 83% have considered quiting and 90% say that healthcare is going onto the wrong track.”

The Affordable Care Act created a new marketplace for quality private insurance plans for the 15% or so of Americans who don’t have health care. And for the 5% of Americans who have to buy it on their own and they’re not part of a group.

  • The Senate Democrats cut the "grandfather clause" that Obama said would be in there. This would allow people who already like their insurance to keep it.”

Young people can stay on their parents plan until they turn 26. All of this is in place right now. It is working right now.

If you had one of these substandard plans before the Affordable Care Act became law, and you really liked that plan, you are able to keep it. That’s what I said when I was running for office. That was part of the promise we made. But ever since the law was passed, if insurers decided to downgrade or cancel these substandard plans, well,what we said under the law is you got to replace them with quality coverage.

  • Medicaid related companies are making a lot of money off of the Patient Protected Affordable Care Act while private medical companies are not. This is a monopoly devoid of competition and work ethic.”

So far choice and competition in the new national marketplaces have helped keep costs lower than even we’ve projected. Nearly half of all single uninsured 18-34 year olds may be able to buy insurance for 50 bucks a month or less.

Less than your cell phone bill, less than your cable bill. And one study shows nearly 6 in 10 uninsured Americans may find coverage for 100 bucks a month or less even if they’re over 34. And frankly if every governor was working as hard as Deval or Governor O’Malley in Maryland or Gov. Cuomo in NY to make this law work for their citizens instead of thinking politically, about 8 in 10 Americans would be getting health insurance for less than 100 bucks a month.

And by the way it’s not just in Mass. Look at Kentucky. Gov. Steve Bashear is like a man possessed trying to get more people covered because he thinks it’s the right thing to do. Keep in mind I did not win in Kentucky. There are a lot of uninsured people in Kentucky and they’re still signing up. Oregon has signed up 10% of its uninsured citizens already because of the affordable care act. 10% are already covered.

So that’s the Affordable Care Act. This marketplace is open now. Insurance companies are competing for that business. The deal is good, the prices are low.

Debate Round No. 4
Maryland_Kid

Pro

I'm just going to recap my talking points, as is customary for DDO.

The wealth redistribution is killing our economy and perrogative to work.

Small businesses aren't hiring more people, because it is too expensive to pay for their health care. Individuals find it too hard to pay for it, too, and they would rather pay the fine than have a plan that's more expensive. It's funny, it's called "The Patient Protected AFFORDABLE Care Act". Doctors don't like it, they plan on quiting, there's a shortage of them, and don't like the future of the health care system in America.

Government fails to run things well because politicians don't know what a person in the field does and there's no competition. If it's bad, there's no where to do. It adds to our debt.

The government subsidies are just going to be free money to people who can't afford insurance to be a perogative to not work and burdens those who already have insurance to pay more. This makes the person who works penalized and deincentivized to work and the person who doesn't work to be rewarded and incentivized to keep being unuseful to society and live off the government that they keep voting for. The private sector and/or charities do better than the government and they work better when the free market is involved. If you refuse to work for a bad reason, you shouldn't be propped up by the government.

People can't keep the same plan that they have. They can either pay more, pay the fine, or not be able to get a plan all together. Despite what my opponent said, it's flat out untrue that you can keep your plan. Every news organization, Liberal or Conservative, is reporting this. It's a fact.

The government thinks either people are too stupid or greedy to get their own health care plan on their own terms. This is flat out untrue. People play by the same rules and they earn what they get if the market can afford it. Barrack Obama, as a Democratic Presidential Candidate before entering the White House, said that he wouldn't make people who couldn't afford their health care plan wouldn't have to pay a fine. The Affordable Care Act that passed in 2010 said otherwise.[1][2]

Obama is delaying the purchasing of insurance mandate because of all of the problem people are having with getting a plan. The White House is falling short of their projections to get people to sign up.

The healthy, young, rich, and satisfied shouldn't pay for those who are not through the government.

Spending on healthcare may be slowing down, but that's because it's getting bigger and bigger while the increase stays basically the same. That's a good spin on a bad story.

Barrack Obama and the Democratic Progressives have gone back on their promise to make everything more equal and made everything less equal or bipartisan.

Poorer people, if they work, increase more in their income mobility over the same time because of free market competition, to which Obama Care doesn't make it work.

I've already cited the situations where people have be denied from their plans based on a government decision that would be unthinkable in the private sector if you paid for it yourself.

The "grandfather cause" or carrying over your health care plan that doesn't fit the Patient Protected Affordable Care Act, was cancelled for 66% of small employer plans and 45% of large employer plans. [3]

The government health care programs are getting rich because of Obama Care while the privately owned ones are losing money. This is setting up the health care economy for failure.

The problems in the American health care system are the expansion of Medicare and Medicaid, not directly paying your doctor, Americans live longer, and so many government subsidies. I'd rather give people choice in the free market, where's there's competition rather than government forced, rationing, poor quality, and even euthanasia in the universal, single payer government system of places like Britain.

I commend my opponent for being very respectful. We should go for either neither of us get the point (being equal) or he gets it.

[1] YouTube Video
[2]http://www.politifact.com...
[3]http://www.forbes.com...
GarretKadeDupre

Con

I just want to say a few words about our economy. In 2013 our businesses created another 2 million jobs, adding up to more than 8 million in just over the past 45 months. This morning we learned that over the summer our economy grew at its strongest pace in nearly two years. The unemployment rate has steadily fallen to its lowest point in five years.

Our tax code is fairer and our fiscal situation is firmer, with deficits that are now less than half of what they were when I took office.

For the first time in nearly two decades, we now produce more oil here at home than we buy from the rest of the world, and our all-of- the-above strategy for new American energy means lower energy costs. The Affordable Care Act has helped keep health care costs growing at their slowest rate in 50 years. Combined, that means bigger paychecks for middle class families and bigger savings for businesses looking to invest and hire here in America.

And, for all the challenges we've had and all the challenges that we've been working on diligently in dealing with both the ACA and the website these past couple months, more than half a million Americans have enrolled through healthcare.gov in the first three weeks of December alone. In California, for example, a state operating its own marketplace, more than 15,000 Americans are enrolling every single day. And in the federal website, tens of thousands are enrolling every single day. Since October 1st, more than 1 million Americans have selected new health insurance plans through the federal and state marketplaces, so all told, millions of Americans, despite the problems with the website, are now poised to be covered by quality affordable health insurance come New Year's Day.

Now, this holiday season there are mothers and fathers and entrepreneurs and workers who have something new to celebrate: the security of knowing that when the unexpected or misfortune strikes, hardship no longer has to.

And you add that all up and what it means is: We head into the year with an economy that's stronger than it was when we started the last year, more Americans. More Americans are finding work and experiencing the pride of a paycheck.

Our businesses are positioned for new growth and new jobs. And I firmly believe that 2014 will be a breakthrough year for America.


I'm taking this very seriously, because I think, as I've said before, this is debate that needed to be had.

All right, have a great holiday, everybody. Appreciate you.

Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
Republicans have consistently advocated interstate competition for health insurance, tort reform, health savings accounts, and vouchers for poor people to buy health insurance. The correct approach to health care legislation, as well as many other problems, is incremental. Legislation should be proposed, thoroughly debated, and approved by bipartisan consensus. Democrats want imposed authoritarian solutions that demolish competitive alternatives. They succeed in selling that as some sort of "free lunch."

I think the press is a major factor in pushing the lime that Republicans have no alternatives. Most of the press is infected with the leftists thinking that the only solutions are dramatic authoritarian ones involving massive government intervention.
Posted by Maryland_Kid 3 years ago
Maryland_Kid
@Wylted, We have set some bills but they weren't well publicized. http://www.forbes.com... http://cnsnews.com... I hope the Republicans/Libertarians come up with individual bills to fix the situation in the future. However that's not what this debate is about.
Posted by Ryanafundar 3 years ago
Ryanafundar
Con is a very weak debater. He was not able to rebut the arguments of pro. Also, Con's arguments are very incoherent which simply means that he has poor writing knowledge.
Posted by Wylted 3 years ago
Wylted
Being a conservative myself. I see con touched on something in round 2 that has bothered me for a long time. The reason the Democratic Party has had so much success is because they are for things. They have a vision. Republicans on the other hand are against things and have no vision. I really think that if conservatives were as good at creating a vision as Democrats then the public would be more behind the Republican Party. This is why Obama Care is unstoppable. Democrats have a vision of free ( no such thing ) healthcare for everyone. I have a vision of how healthcare should work, but where in the hell are my people's vision. Why are the Republicans so inept at creating a vision and articulating it to the public.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
Maryland_KidGarretKadeDupreTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had no sources to back up his assertions, and in this type of debate that's fatal to one's case. Pro provided sources to support his case, and Con didn't even attack Pro's sources. Con agreed with many of Pro's claims. Agreeing that it is disaster but claiming that Republicans have nothing better, or that Republicans have done unrealted bad things (like the shutdown), or that disastrous things will be ultimately fixed does not dispute the resolution -- that it's now a disaster. Pro could have done a more careful job of responding to each of Con's rebuttals. Con responded to the claim that the law was passed without being read by saying the ACA application was short -- a nonsequitir, and also false. Con's repeating the Administration claim that if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor is ridiculous at this point; Obama admitted it was false. Pro should have cited the net loss of people having insurance; the debate was not close. Con conceded too many arguments.