The Instigator
henryajevans
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Ryanafundar
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Obama is a Socialist

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/28/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 760 times Debate No: 39545
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

henryajevans

Con

I am taking the position that Obama is not a socialist.

Socialism (OED Definition) - A theory or policy of social organisation which aims at or advocates the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole, and their administration or distribution in the interests of all.

I often find it rather disparaging when people say that Obama is a socialist. It is partly an operation by the right to discredit Obama in post-McCarthyist America, but more importantly, it hinders socialism. The American Left fall for the notion that Obama is a socialist, therefore they should vote for him, while his corporate backers see through the post-Clintonian facade of there being no difference between the Democrats and Republicans.

If I was to compare Obama to any other politician in terms of policies and agenda, it would be David Cameron. Contrary to what Nigel Farage, the British equivalent of Sarah Palin, says, David Cameron is not a socialist.

There is a shared BOP starting in R2, meaning that con has to prove Obama is not a socialist, and pro has to prove that Obama is a socialist.

Best of luck.
Ryanafundar

Pro

Obama is a socialist because he has a lot of policies that intend to benefit the masses. He wants to increase the tax of the wealthy to provide just for the poor. He is anti-capitalist. Although, I believe that he is a socialist, I am not saying that he is evil. His health care program is an evidence that he is a socialist.

Obama Care is socialism which capitalism. Isn't it?
Debate Round No. 1
henryajevans

Con

There'a a difference between implementing policies that benefit the masses and being anticapitalist and socialism. Obama is not anticapitalist and he does not want to benefit the masses at the expense of the rich. He wants to benefit the Democrat-supporting rich at the expense of the Republican-supporting rich. Obamacare is not socialism, but is more a huge stimulus package to the insurance companies. The government buying health insurance for people is not socialism. Socialism woud be nationalising the hospitals and eliminating the insurance companies.
Ryanafundar

Pro

What is the difference? you did not even explain the difference. You committed a falacy of circular reasoning. Obviously, what he is doing is a form of socialism, thus he is more of a socialist than a capitalist. You stated, "The government buying health insurance for people is not socialism. Socialism woud be nationalising the hospitals and eliminating the insurance companies." where is the evidence? To some extend, it would. You do not understand what socialism is. I am not saying he is bad, but he is a socialist based on his policies.
Debate Round No. 2
henryajevans

Con

henryajevans forfeited this round.
Ryanafundar

Pro

Ryanafundar forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
henryajevans

Con

Income Inequality

Income inequality has increased substantially, at a higher rate than it did under Bush. That's not very socialist.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Union Membership

Union membership has fallen to its lowest since before 1860. Unions are the cornerstone of a socialist society, and the decline in union membership is symptomatic of a decline in workers' representation, and therefore socialism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Public Sector Jobs

Jobs in the public sector have decreased across the board, the one exception being firefighters. In total, 269,811 public sector jobs were lost between 2009 and 2011. A strong public sector is a hallmark of socialism, and public sector employment has declined under Obama.

http://www.hamiltonproject.org...

Private Sector Jobs

Conversely, the private sector has increased in size. In October 2013, there was a net increase of 205,000 private sector jobs in the face of a declining public sector. A prominent private sector is a main feature of a capitalist economy, and is antithetical to a socialist one.

http://www.usatoday.com...

Automobile Industry Bailouts, 2008-10

When Obama transferred $80bn to the private sector to bail out General Motors and Chrysler in 2008, he did so on a low-interest loan. The money from the bailout could have been diverted to not laying off over a quarter of a million public sector jobs (Incidentally, the number of employees of GM and Chrysler is roughly equivalent to the number of public sector jobs lost beteen 2009 and 2011, indicating a willful decision to prioritise the private sector over the public sector); or to public works projects to create more public sector jobs, but no. Obama bowed to his corporate masters, and abandoned the public sector in favour of the private sector. Alternatively, he could have been a socialist, as you seem to believe he is, and nationalised GM and Chrysler, a la British Leyland, or at least put a bill forward to take the firms into public ownership.

Predictably, the bailout money was not used to save the jobs. Both companies cut their manpower by 25%, and General Motors invested $1bn in the Brazilian market. Obama and the Government knew this would happen, yet they still went along with it. That was not very socialist of them, and as a result, hundreds of thousands of people have suffered the pangs of unemployment because Obama betrayed them.

Obama's policies are a direct continuation of the Bushes, Clinton and Reagan, and are therefore completely antithetical to socialism.
Ryanafundar

Pro

Ryanafundar forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
henryajevans

Con

Vote Con.
Ryanafundar

Pro

Ryanafundar forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by henryajevans 3 years ago
henryajevans
It is an obsolete term if taken literally in its original meaning. What I mean by 'means of production' is the essential services for people, as well as major sources of employment. Obama has advocated public ownership of a product sold by companies he is in bed with. Health insurance is not one of the means of production; it is a product that the government is buying for the population.
Posted by ADreamOfLiberty 3 years ago
ADreamOfLiberty
"Obama has not nationalised any of the means of production."

Obama has advocated a public ownership of at least some component of the healthcare insurance industry.

BTW I should warn you I find the term 'means of production' kinda of a joke. As far as I can tell it includes every human being, and every piece of currency. It's not just land and factories.
Posted by miketheman1200 3 years ago
miketheman1200
Haha, good luck with this.
Posted by henryajevans 3 years ago
henryajevans
Obama has not nationalised any of the means of production. Conversely, under Bush I and II and Reagan, the Republican Party privatised many key elements of the US Govt, and this has been continued by Barack Obama.
Posted by ADreamOfLiberty 3 years ago
ADreamOfLiberty
I have a question, if the fact that Obama has never advocated complete majority (and I will always say majority because the term 'community' or 'society' tries to hide the fact that there is always a minority on every issue or decision) ownership of the means of production means he's not a socialist. Then surely there have been no capitalist republicans because none have advocated complete private ownership of the means of production?
Posted by henryajevans 3 years ago
henryajevans
I would love for there to be a socialist president, but the implications that Obama is a socialist is bad for socialists and for Obama, and only serves the far right.
Posted by Sitara 3 years ago
Sitara
You say that like its a bad thing.
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