The Instigator
Pro (for)
4 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Obama is corrupt, immoral, and similar to Bush on foreign policy and economics

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/22/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,042 times Debate No: 34022
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)




I will provide the bulk of my evidence and reasoning in my next post, this first post will serve simply as a summary. Sourcing will be provided once I have a debate opponent.

I am a lifelong Illinoisan who voted for Alan Keyes' 2004 opponent Alan Keyes, even as I voted against George W. Bush and for Michael Peroutka in the presidential election. In short, I have been looking into these matters for quite some time and have numerous reliable sources that will be provided.

1. Corruption

I argue that Obama has displayed corruption throughout his political career.

-In 1996 he used a team of lawyers to disqualify all four opponents on petition technicalities after the filing deadline so he could run unopposed, and a judge dismissed the appeals.
-In 2003 he struck a deal with the Illinois senate leader Emil Jones, asking Jones to make him a U.S. Senator in a well-established conversation. Jones then appointed him head of much of the major legislation in the Illinois senate and had him craft legislation to meet major issues in the news to raise his political profile.
-In 2004, the Chicago media, perhaps due to Jones' influence, knocked off both the frontrunner candidates who were leading Obama in the polls, Blair Hull and Jack Ryan, by forcing the sealing of their divorce records. In an unusual step, the Chicago Tribune and a local radio station actually sued to uncover Ryan's divorce files, even though both Ryan and his wife wanted them sealed to protect the children involved. Both candidates had their campaigns implode, and Obama was left unopposed once again.
-In 2005, Obama came under fire for the house he bought next door to convicted Blagojevich felon Tony Rezko, having received a special deal from the Chicago Democrat. Obama then for years lied about the amounts fundraised for him by Rezko to the media, as the numbers steadily grew from $50-60,000 to $250,000.
-After Rahm Emanuel came under fire for corruption, Obama swapped him into the Chicago mayoral office and swapped Bill Daley into the White House Chief of Staff position. The Daley crime family who'd run Chicago was exchanged per nepotism. Obama recently did the same thing after the head of the IRS was criticized for corruption, moved her to another area, namely heading Obamacare's upcoming implementation. Obama cares nothing for accountability.
-Obama was exceptionally corrupt during the Obamacare and Stimulus bill processes, striking backroom deals of the kind he campaigned against; breaking his promises on putting the bill process on C-Span, no earmarks, and bipartisanship. He refused to meet with Republicans or let them help create the bills while they were being designed, ignored pleas from C-Span's founder to keep his promise, and struck deals with the healthcare industry to remove the public option covering all Americans and with unions. He punished the medical device industry for not supporting the bill with an excise tax.

2. Immoral

Obama opposed the Illinois "Born Alive" bills that mandated care for newborn children during his time in the Illinois Senate from 1997-2003. These bills required that children born alive outside the womb after botched abortions be given medical care. Illinois nurses Jill Stanek and Allison Baker testified that children were being thrown in wastebaskets and left to die in soiled utility rooms where they worked in Christ Hospital of Oak Lawn, Illinois. Stanek testified before Congress and the Illinois Senate, and describes Obama's reaction as 'callous' for saying children outside the womb were fetuses who shouldn't be given medical care. Congress passed the federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act into U.S. law in 2003, along with the Partial Birth Birth Abortion Ban Act banning the specific form of abortion, Intact Dilation & Extraction (killing the child when all but the head is outside the body), and public outrage was so great that even normally liberal U.S. Senators voted for the Born Alive Infant Protection Act - it passed the U.S. Senate unanimously. However, at the same time, Obama led an Illinois effort by Planned Parenthood to stop the Illinois bills from passing for years, allowing many more children to die outside the womb like this. He led an effort to cover up the votes of Illinois senators on these bills using present votes since most Illinoisans don't know they are the same in Illinois as no votes.

3. Similar to Bush

Obama according to CNN shares 20 similarities when it comes to George W. Bush. Obama has broken a number of campaign promises when it comes to foreign policy and civil rights.

He promised to withdraw troops within 16 months then refused to keep his promise. It was ultimately the Bush Status of Forces Agreement signed in 2008 that caused troops to withdraw, and Obama took credit for it. Not only that, Obama privately contacted Iraq's government trying to get troops to stay longer than the Bush deadlines, and was denied. Obama ironically was more pro-war than Bush himself, and wanted troops in Iraq longer than Bush did. Obama also voted for 10 of 11 Iraq War funding bills as a U.S. Senator, even as he dishonestly portrays himself as an opponent of the war. It was under a Democratic Congress after the end of 2006 that spending on the U.S. military and public debt skyrocketed to all-time highs.

Obama has reauthorized the Patriot Act 3 times now, unchanged, after campaigning on "revisiting" it. He also extended FISA unchanged. He has kept Guantanamo open year after year after campaigning against it. His drone strikes kill civilians in the same way Bush was once criticized by liberals for causing civilian casualties. He had the head of a country, Libya, overthrown using drones without Congressional approval, and has used drones to kill American citizens without trial.

Obama passed stimulus and healthcare bills like Bush did. Bush actually passed a sweeping healthcare bill, the 2003 Medicare expansion, that was the largest in the history of Medicare since Medicare was created. Obama used an executive order to pass Obamacare after he campaigned on not using signing statements. His bills were riddled with the earmarks he campaigned against. He has broken his promise on no lobbyists in his administration, and has imitated Bush considerably in that regard as well.

Even though Obama criticizes Bush's economics, while a U.S. Senator he voted for Bush's budgets including 19 spending bills according to CNN. Even though public debt grew 2.91 times as fast under Bush as it did under Clinton, it was growing 2.40 times as fast under Obama as it did under Bush, and 7.64 times as fast as it did under Clinton. After criticizing free trade agreements on the campaign trial, he did an about face and began supporting them publicly, not a surprise to those who'd checked his voting record since he'd been voting for them as a U.S. Senator.

Obama is actually using Bush's 2001 state of the union address slogan, "Juntos podemos - together we can" as part of his campaign, and it is odd that Bush does not call him out for it if they are on opposite sides. "Si se puede" is very obviously an imitation of Bush's own slogan.

While Obama is very much socially liberal, unlike George W. Bush, on the foreign policies and economic policies that Bush has been so demonized for by liberals, Obama is quite similar to Bush.


Every nation on Earth has suffered through dark periods in their history and either learned from their mistakes, made changes, and progressed, or fell victim to their own incompetence and failed. America has had its share of trials and tribulations over its 236 year history, and yet it still prevailed to become the greatest nation on Earth until the eight year self-inflicted wound under the George W. Bush administration.

At one point you mention Obama trying to get troops out of Iraq and the only reason he was not able to do so is because your republican government was telling their senators to keep the troops in Iraq. Also I bet you my right nut that Obama did not want to vote for those bills but that his government told him to do so.
Debate Round No. 1


In response to Con's arguments, first of all, I would observe that it took a large number of Democrats to pass the original declaration of war against Iraq and subsequent funding bills. Ultimately, 81 Democratic Representatives and 29 Democratic Senators voted in favor of war with Iraq, including many still in politics today like Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Harry Reid, John Kerry, Max Baucus, and Henry Waxman. While the Republican Party was certainly more at fault for the initial declaration, a number of Democrats have not been held accountable for their support of war at the time.

As for Obama and troops in Iraq, Obama had a supermajority from the middle of 2009 to the start of 2010, over 6 months, allowing him to pass any bill he wanted without a single Republican vote. He showed no interest during that time in keeping his promises like witdrawing troops at a time when there were so many elected Democrats that Republicans could not block anything at all. Furthermore, for the months both prior to and after that, there were so many Democrats that only a few Republicans were required for bill passage, which is why the Stimulus was able to pass with just three Republican votes in January 2009, Collins, Snow, and Specter. Obama had complete capability to withdraw troops from Iraq, and showed no interest in keeping his promise.

Ultimately, Democrats ran Congress since late 2006. Debt under the Democratic-run Congress from 2006-2010 grew rapidly, but it actually declined under the Republican Congress from 1994-2006, and from 1986-1994 when Democrats ran Congress it grew substantially. Furthermore, the public debt according to's Debt to the Penny calculator grew $526.9 million a day under Bill Clinton, $1.676 billion a day under George W. Bush, and $4.023 billion under Barack Obama. While it grew 2.91 times as fast under Bush as it did under Clinton, it's grown 2.40 times as fast under Obama as under Bush, and 7.64 times as fast as under Clinton.

Furthermore, why is it alright to give Obama a pass because he's had a Republican Congress for 2 years, but ignore the Democratic Congress under Bush? Why give the Democratic Congress a pass (which Obama was a part of), but criticize the Republican Congress under Obama? Isn't that a double standard? If liberal Democrats were honest they would hold the Democrats under Bush accountable for supporting the Bush agendas. Military spending hit an all-time high of $700 billion annually under that 2006-2008 Democrat-run Congress which Obama was a part of. The Patriot Act, Bailouts, and free trade agreements were all passed under that Congress.

At any rate, Obama had the ability to withdraw troops from Iraq so he would keep his promise, and chose not to do so. You cannot blame obstructionism, for Republicans lacked the votes to stop anything at the time. Obama voted for 10 of 11 Iraq War funding bills while in the U.S. Senate.

As Hillary Clinton said of Obama in 2008:

"You've changed positions within three years on, you know, a range of issues that you put forth when you ran for the Senate and now you have changed. You know, you said you would vote against the Patriot Act; you came to the Senate, you voted for it. You said that you would vote against funding for the Iraq war; you came to the Senate and you voted for $300 billion of it."

Obama took credit for George W. Bush's troop withdrawal. Newsweek accused Obama of a "war crime" for "falsely taking credit for finally bringing Iraq to a close"a war actually ended by the Bush administration back in 2008" and stated, "The U.S. troops who fought and died in that war, the Iraqis who perished, and the American people deserve far better." It was George W. Bush's 2008 Status of Forces Agreement that caused troops to withdraw from Iraq per two deadlines, one in mid-2009 requiring all combat troops withdraw from Iraq cities, and another requiring all combat troops leave by the end of December 2011.

Even though Obama campaigned on having troops out of Iraq in 16 months, he actually contacted the Iraq government asking them to let 10,000 troops stay past the deadline, but was refused. He then asked if 3,000 could stay, and was refused.

According to CNN's Tara Wall, "Obama voted for Bush's budgets, which included 19 spending bills." This is just one of 20 similarities shared by Bush and Obama, according to Wall's 2008 article.

Obama reneged on his promise to close Guantanamo, and has greatly expanded on the violations of civil liberties Bush was once criticized for, yet as noted by Jack Hunter, this has been met by liberals with "partisan silence".

Obama stated in "Barack Obama: The War We Need to Win",

"As president, Barack Obama would revisit the PATRIOT Act to ensure that there is real and robust oversight of tools like National Security Letters, sneak-and-peek searches, and the use of the material witness provision... Barack Obama opposed the Bush Administration"s initial policy on warrantless wiretaps because it crossed the line between protecting our national security and eroding the civil liberties of American citizens. As president, Obama would update the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to provide greater oversight and accountability to the congressional intelligence committees to prevent future threats to the rule of law."

Obama voted to have the Patriot Act reauthorized while in the U.S. Senate, and extended it and FISA as president unchanged. Obama originally promised to increase oversight of wiretapping and "revisit" the Patriot Act to stop warrantless wiretaps, yet as noted by PolitiFact,

"President Barack Obama's promise to increase oversight of wiretapping practices has been put on hold after Congress passed a one-year extension of the Patriot Act that made no changes to the law."

Obama has actually thrice over shown support for the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping he once condemned, first by voting in Congress to reauthorize the Patriot Act in 2006 (HR 3199), secondly by breaking his earlier promise to filibuster an update of FISA since it gave immunity to telecommunications companies engaging in warrantless wiretapping per the Patriot Act (HR 6304), and thirdly by extending an unaltered Patriot Act another year as President.

Out of space.


ureafacist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


The following are the primary sources for other points I made that have not yet been sourced, as promised:

Obama opposed medical care for newborn children, and his own words on the IL Senate floor show this. His statements included the following, which acknowledged children were being born "temporarily alive outside the womb" and after this was confirmed, he argued that we should consider them previable fetuses since they were born prematurely instead of to nine month terms, and that we shouldn't place a "burden" upon abortion doctors to care for them. (pp. 84-88)

"Senator O'Malley, the testimony during the committee indicated that one of the key concerns was - is that there was a method of abortion, an induced abortion, where the -- the fetus or child, as - as some might describe it, is still temporarily alive outside the womb. And one of the concerns that came out in the testimony was the fact that they were not being properly cared for during that brief period of time that they were still living. Is that correct?"

"Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we're really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a - a child, a nine-month-old -- child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it - it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute. For that purpose, I think it would probably be found unconstitutional. The second reason that it would probably be found unconstitutional is that this essentially says that a doctor is required to provide treatment to a previable child, or fetus, however way you want to describe it. Viability is the line that has been drawn by the Supreme Court to determine whether or not an abortion can or cannot take place. And if we're placing a burden on the doctor that says you have to keep alive even a previable child as long as possible and give them as much medical attention as - as is necessary to try to keep that child alive, then we're probably crossing the line in terms of unconstitutionality. Now, as I said before, this probably won't make any difference. I recall the last time we had a debate about abortion, we passed a bill out of here. I suggested to Members of the Judiciary Committee that it was unconstitutional and it would be struck down by the Seventh Circuit. It was. I recognize this is a passionate issue, and so I - I won't, as I said, belabor the point. I think it's important to recognize though that this is an area where potentially we might have compromised and - and arrived at a bill that dealt with the narrow concerns about how a - a previable fetus or child was treated by a hospital. We decided not to do that. We're going much further than that in this bill. As a consequence, I think that we will probably end up in court once again, as we often do, on this issue. And as a consequence, I'll be voting Present."

Obama led a Planned Parenthood movement to cover up votes on these controversial bills according to Teddy Davis of ABC News, using present votes, since most Illinoisans don't know they are the same as No votes.

Alan Keyes, Obama's 2004 opponent (whom I voted for) made a huge issue of Obama's voting record after entering the race with just 3 months left before the election, after both Obama's opponents, Blair Hull and Jack Ryan, got knocked out of the race.

Concerning Obama's corruption in the 1996 election:

Obama's corrupt deal with Emil Jones to get credit for the legislation of other Illinois Senators was featured in a major exclusive by Vanity Fair and raised by other major publications.

Todd Spivak, a long time Obama reported, said that:

"Republicans controlled the Illinois General Assembly for six years of Obama's seven-year tenure. Each session, Obama backed legislation that went nowhere; bill after bill died in committee. During those six years, Obama, too, would have had difficulty naming any legislative achievements... During his seventh and final year in the state Senate, Obama's stats soared. He sponsored a whopping 26 bills passed into law " including many he now cites in his presidential campaign when attacked
as inexperienced."

During the 2004 elections, the frontrunner candidates, Blair Hull and Jack Ryan had their campaigns destroyed by the Chicago media which forced the unsealing of their divorce files.



Concerning Obama's land deal with Rezko in 2005:

Obama originally claimed Rezko donated far less money to him, and revised originally claimed figures over several years by 5 times the original amounts.

Obama originally promised to put the stimulus on C-Span, but then ignored pleas by its founder to keep his promise in Jan. 2010. Jon Stewart ridiculed Obama's effort to pass health care without the American people being able to read the bill as 'stealth care reform.'

Obama broke his promise on a public option, striking a deal with the health care industry to remove it.

The White House struck a deal with unions for their support.

Medical device makers were punished with an excise tax.


ureafacist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


Jzyehoshua forfeited this round.


ureafacist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


Jzyehoshua forfeited this round.


ureafacist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Jzyehoshua 3 years ago
Hmm, that Chicago Tribune link doesn't seem to work now. Here's the original story it linked to, I guess they changed the link. Annoying when sites do that.

It was good reporting by the Chicago Tribune on what happened too.
Posted by Jzyehoshua 3 years ago
Hmm, that Chicago Tribune link doesn't seem to work now. Here's the original story it linked to, I guess they changed the link. Annoying when sites do that.

It was good reporting by the Chicago Tribune on what happened too.
Posted by Jzyehoshua 3 years ago
As for the corruption in 1996 and 2003, I'll try to address them as the debate continues. The following are the sources I've provided here:

1996 election, disqualifying opponents:

2003 Emil Jones deal:

Again, I expect to add this detail as the debate goes along, there just wasn't enough space to provide it for this 2nd round. I had just 1 character remaining in space out of the 8,000 character limit.
Posted by Jzyehoshua 3 years ago
If I'd provided all of my sources, I doubt I would have found a debate opponent. I've posted them online nonetheless here:

I will be posting these sources and possibly others as the debate continues, everything is very well supported by sourcing. My biggest problem is not having enough credible sources, but having enough posting space to provide them all.
Posted by Bullish 3 years ago
Also, Obama was born on Mars.

It's going to be tough debunking every one of these, especially when no sources are given..
Posted by Diirez 3 years ago
No sources?
Posted by LaL36 3 years ago
Looks like an interesting debate but source your claims like the thing in 1996 2003 etc.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by GOP 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited more than Pro. Con also said something starting with "Also I bet" which is missing a comma Con did not use any sources at all.