The Instigator
amandakaye
Pro (for)
Losing
26 Points
The Contender
Labrat228
Con (against)
Winning
130 Points

Obama is hope for the US

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/31/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,031 times Debate No: 5214
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (25)

 

amandakaye

Pro

Republicans are bible thumping, money hungry, war mongrels!!!
Labrat228

Con

My opponent has stated the following
"Republicans are bible thumping, money hungry, war mongrels!!!"
I will pick this statement apart little by little, but let me first point this out, my opponent hasn't offered a reason why Obama is hope for the USA. Or why McCain isn't hope.

"Bible Thumping" :
Personally i find this insulting because bible thumping could mean a variety of things. Some people define people who say abortion is against the bible as "Bible Thumping". While some people define "Bible Thumpers" as people who use the Bible to exorcise their political views. Either way, it is a way of saying that the Bible is irrelevant to the world of today. Regardless, i believe this comment to be Irrelevant, Irrational, Insulting, and a horrible reason to support Obama, Who is Christian.

"Money Hungry"
As a Conservative i believe that America is the greatest country on the face of the earth. I believe that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed. Obama, He has stated that he grew up in an overall poor family. Look where he is now, he succeeded because he pulled himself through the education system and didn't rely on others to get him where he is. However, Obama supports Government funded programs to get people who are where he was to where he is. Government funded programs = Higher taxes. Conservatives-Republicans believe in less government funded programs. Which means lower taxes. Common sense? I think so! Money Hungry... I think not!

"War Mongrels"
22 Wars have been started by Democrats in History 452,163 Deaths -http://mapsofwar.com...
16 Wars have been started by Republicans in History 372,815 Deaths - http://mapsofwar.com...
+ 2 current wars by republicans Iraq (3000+) and Afghanistan (336+) - http://mapsofwar.com...
Democrats have started more wars and caused more American lives than Republicans. "War Mongrels", this statement has been proven false.

I'm Anxious to see what my opponent definition of "Hope" is.
I'm guessing hope for change. My question to my opponent is, Change in what?
Debate Round No. 1
amandakaye

Pro

I will start with "bible thumping." What I mean by this term, is those who use the Bible as an excuse. For example, stem cell research. People say that it is unethical because it is like killing a child. This however is not correct. Once the embryos are created outside a woman and could never develop into a child. There is also stem cell research which is not directly related to stem cell research which is also being banned in the United States. However, all over the world stem cell research is progressing very well. This is and will put the US in a weak position.

Another position is abortion. Yes that is killing an embryo that could develop into a child. Do I feel people should get abortions? No! But it is the woman's choice. Not your decision, not mine, and not the governments. No one would ever think of going about telling people when they need to have kids so what right do we have to say no you can not? Some may not agree to abortion which is 100% ok. I myself would never do it either. But I'm not going to tell another woman what she should do with her body. What if it's a matter of life or death or rape?

So what I mean by bible thumping is simply this. I am not against any one is a Christian or any other religion. I myself am a Christian. But there are many other religions and beliefs out there and I'm not going to force my views on them and neither should this country. Therefore the president should make an unbiased decision on the mater not based a religion. This country was founded on the right of freedom of religion. These views against abortion and stem cell research generally come from hardcore Christians believing that this is an un-Christian thing to do. However, if their was a cure that came by way of stem cell research would you not take it if your life depended on it because you somehow find it unethical?

Obama will run this country with an unbais eye even though he is a Christian and that is what America greatly needs.

Money Hungry….

On this matter it is quite obvious if you ask me. This country favors the rich!! Tax breaks are given to those of the upper class. Lets look at real estate… any house you own that you do not live in full time is tax deductible. Why do you think the wealthy invest their money in real estate? Because they like to collect houses? No, it's because it lowers their taxes by lowering their taxable income. Taxes also calculate in deprecation of the property. All of these deductions can be found on the IRS website. The average American family can only afford one house. Houses are free, you have to be wealthy to own multiple houses.

Therefore, the tax system in America is unbalanced. The wealthy can afford taxes easily but yet they get the biggest breaks. While on the other had, middle to lower class families can bearly get buy and they get hardly no breaks because they don't have these "tax shelters."

Currently wouldn't you agree that the US has free K-12 education no matter if you are rich or poor to every child? Wouldn't you agree that we have a government funded military, police and fire protection? These systems are all socialism systems. So why don't we have the same with health care? All the other major powers of the world do except for the US. Even Cuba and Costa Rica. Why? It's because insurance lobbyist give millions and millions to the political power of this country. Do you have insurance? I pay 1300 a year. If my taxes were increased by half or even that whole amount I would be dancing in the streets if I knew I, along with all my other fellow Americans, got health care at no expense. You see paying taxes is not a bad thing as long as you see where your money is going. I have no problem paying taxes if my money is going to good things such as health care and education but it's not. Schools are the first to get funding in the US. SAT scores are at a record low. So why other countries are increasing their education system we here in America are getting dumber all the time. The US is the only world power who doesn't have free higher education. America is not keeping up quite obvisoly.

War…

War is always a bad thing, people die. I agree sometimes war can not be stopped and is needed but, not this war. We are at war with a country that did nothing to us. That is like another country going to war the US because some US citizens went to their country and killed a bunch of people. Not right! Therefore this war is a personal agenda and does not look out for the good of American citizens.

Obama will seek to correct these things. McCain with only keep current policies going, not change them.

And sorry for the delayed response.
Labrat228

Con

"Bible Thumping"
I accept your definition of "Bible Thumping", but i do not accept your views on stem cells. (relevant because Obama supports research on stem cells.) Stem cell research commonly uses ES cells (Embryonic) which are in the early stage of the embryo known as blastocyst. This stage is reached 4-5 days post fertilization. Which raises i very interesting question. At what age do humans Receive human rights? According to Barrack Obama at the Sattleback Convention, The question is above his pay grade. In my opinion, if he is feeling as if he cant answer that question, then he shouldn't be pulling to remove the Abortion ban George W. Bush has in place. In his own words, he is unqualified to be making a decision on abortion. Does an unborn baby deserve rights? Did American Slaves Pre-civil war deserve rights?

"Money Hungry" - My opponent gave no evidents that the man known as Barrack Obama who is worth $1.3million

My opponent has obviously forgotten she is pulling for Barrack Obama! Again, Barrack Obama is for more government funded programs, this means higher taxes to support these programs right? The school that i go to (Craig County high) was ranked one of the best schools in our surrounding area. Craig County has very poor funding, our last "super" had us $200,000 in the red. The city just a county away has some of the worst scores and it has the 7th highest funding in the state of Virginia. Does adding money really help the education system? In my county's case, no. In fact, the county took the schools lottery fund away from us. The school board and the County board of Supervisors almost went to court over it. The point being, when you add money to "Education" it trickles down from the Federal Government to the State Government to the Local government and then it gets to the school, and somewhere along the line, its lost.

"War Mongrels"
Yet it is true Iraq did nothing to us, they did invade Kuwait with bio-chemical weapons.
"Iraq was ruled by a rogue who had long pursued the clandestine acquisition of weapons of mass destruction; used biochemical weapons against his own citizens and neighbors; perpetrated horrific human rights atrocities; attacked Iran and invaded and annexed Kuwait; and defied the UN for 13 years." - Ramesh Thakur
Would we have been a better nation if we had let this go? Are you telling me that if Barrack Obama is elected he will set at his pretty little desk and let innocent people be murdered by a Hitler-like man? If that is the change he wants, i want nothing to do with him.

And i had no problems with your delay! I understand that people have other lives than debate.org
Debate Round No. 2
amandakaye

Pro

Stem Cell Research

Obama is correct that he can't determine when life begins and neither can anyone else for that matter. So on that matter, no one can chose if an unborn child is more important than the mothers. All research is being banned in regards to stem cell research just not embryonic. You don't feel that this is going to put Americans at a disadvantage? Even with embryonic research, it is impossible for it to develop into a child.

Money Hungry

Yes, Obama is considered wealthy as are all politians. The difference between him and McCain, is Obama will run this country in regards to the general public not the few wealthy. With Obama as president, the education problem your high school is having will be solved. The reason for the education problem is the fact that the federal government doesn't really care. They let the local governments do what ever they want with few restrictions. Adding money does help as long as it is governed right which currently it is not.

War

Opponent stated:

"Iraq was ruled by a rogue who had long pursued the clandestine acquisition of weapons of mass destruction; used biochemical weapons against his own citizens and neighbors; perpetrated horrific human rights atrocities; attacked Iran and invaded and annexed Kuwait; and defied the UN for 13 years." - Ramesh Thakur

If this is true then why isn't the US in Darfur? There is genocide there happening right now worse than the Holocaust? But yet the US has said they will not interfere. So if the government is claming they are helping them just out of the kindness of their heart then why aren't we helping these people who are being killed by the masses. I assure you, this war has personal agenda behind it.

Questions

I have noticed my opponent has not said anything about taxes, abortion, and universal health care. What are your positions on these very important issues?

McCain

McCain will follow in Bushes footsteps who has clearly walked our country down the wrong path. And now McCain has even mad more bad choices with his vice president Palin. How can a woman with 5 small children, one being an infant still, have time to put our country first? Along with that, she has misguided her own child (in regards to her pregnant 17 daughter). How can we not expect that she will misguide us as well?
Labrat228

Con

Stem cell research
My opponent asked me
"You don't feel that this is going to put Americans at a disadvantage?"
My clear answer is no. America has an Technological Partnership with the UK and most members of the G8. The partnership is based on societal advances (TTP). Therefor, when the UK finds something out about Stem Cells that nobody else knows, we get the technology as well.
"Even with embryonic research, it is impossible for it to develop into a child."
I'm not really sure what my opponent meant by this but here we go...
Embryonic stem cells (ES cells) are stem cells derived from the inner cell mass of an early stage embryo known as a blastocyst. Human embryos reach the blastocyst stage 4-5 days post fertilization, at which time they consist of 50-150 cells. - Wikipedia
Where in the statement does it say that the embryo will not make it?

"Money Hungry"
"Obama will run this country in regards to the general public not the few wealthy."
I see no quotes or statements to back that up. I will say it again, he is for more govt. funded programs, how do you fund government funded programs? Taxpayers! My opponent says and i quote: "The wealthy can afford taxes easily but yet they get the biggest breaks.". Then who pays for these programs? As my opponent puts it "The General Public".

"War Mongrels"
My oppoentnt ask me a very interesting question, "Why isn't the US in Darfur?"

The truth is... WE ARE!!!
according to the US Department Of States's Website our primary goals in darfur are this:
*
Engage with Government of Sudan officials to press for improved security and conditions for the 2.5 million people living in camps for Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs). Regularly visit the camps to meet with civil society leaders and other community members.
*
Support a Peace Secretariat office in El Fasher, which helps to disseminate information about and broaden support for the May 2006 Darfur Peace Agreement and peace process. The Peace Secretariat also acts as a center for coordination on peace process-related implementation activities and provides much needed capacity – including office space, computers and communications – to DPA signatories.
*
Serve as U.S. observers on the Cease Fire Commission (CFC), established to conduct investigations into ceasefire violations and oversee progress in the implementation of the DPA's security provisions. U.S. officials provide counsel to the AU in strengthening the CFC and in enhancing its capability to carry out its security-related tasks.
*
Conduct fact-finding missions across Darfur and facilitate progress in reaching a political solution to the Darfur crisis. U.S. officials maintain contact with rebel groups to encourage their constructive engagement with the international and humanitarian communities and to urge their participation in political dialogue aimed at definitively resolving the conflict in Darfur.
*
Support the African Union Mission in Sudan (AMIS) and efforts to transition it to a United Nations/African Union hybrid force. The U.S. supports 34 AMIS camps, assisting with maintenance of its vehicles and communications equipment. It also provides training to AMIS troops.

The U.S. has contributed about $4 billion in humanitarian, development, peacekeeping and reconstruction for the people of Sudan and eastern Chad in fiscal years 2005-2007.

My friend, i assure you, The war in Iraq was based on aid to the people of Iraq-Kuwait

My opponent has asked me a personal question, she asked me about my positions on Taxes, Abortion, And universal health care. I find this question highly irrelevant due to the fact that the debate is about Obama, Not me. Therefor I will not answer this irrelevant question, it is a waste of my time, as well as the readers.

My opponent asks:
"How can a woman with 5 small children, one being an infant still, have time to put our country first? Along with that, she has misguided her own child (in regards to her pregnant 17 daughter). How can we not expect that she will misguide us as well?"

It is obvious that you do not realize the amount of Female democratic politicians with kids who have not been mentioned. Nancy Pelosi has five children: Nancy Corinne, Christine, Jacqueline, Paul, and Alexandra, as well as seven grandchildren. You also said she has "misguided her own child". 12 million teens have had sexual intercourse. Of this group, more than 1.1 million became pregnant; three- quarters of these pregnancies were unintended, and 434,000 ended in abortion (www.teenshleter.org). If every teen who has had premarital sex is "Misguided", America, in majority, is a misguided country. I bring a very interesting question to you, If Mr. Palin was running for office, would his family be an issue? We face a revolution in our country where Females, who are put down in other country's, are held up for political office. I believe it is time to stop sayin: Well she has 5 kids and her responsibility is to her family.
And start saying: She isn't a single mother, their is a Mr. Palin!
I will conclude with a very quick summery of the debate.

My opponent offered no Evidents that supported "Obama is hope for the US"
My opponent offered no Evidents to any of the statements she provided. They were merely opinion-based.
My opponent slandered the Republican Party in whole (meaning from the beginning of time to present)
I have successfully Provided reason as to why Barrack isn't hope.
I have successfully Provided Cited sources, unlike my opponent
I have successfully offered reasons as to why my opponents crude remarks were false.
Thanks for reading, and thanks for the debate Amanda! Vote Labrat228
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by HandsOff 8 years ago
HandsOff
'Republicans are bible thumping, money hungry, war mongrels!!!'

I think you should rephrase it to "Some Republicans are bible thumping, money hungry, war mongers, but most conservatives want to end the war as soon as possible, without leaving the Iraqis to be slaughtered, and stop government spending on services we cannot afford to pay for."

I think even most repubs and dems would agree with this version. By the way, Bush is no conservative, and I'm not sure more than a few exist in congress.
Posted by my.matryoshka 8 years ago
my.matryoshka
Amandakaye got pwn3d.
Posted by cmrnprk07 8 years ago
cmrnprk07
Amandakaye, please, please read your history books!
Posted by scissorhands7 8 years ago
scissorhands7
Poor resolution, for this point alone you should vote CON
Posted by Labrat228 8 years ago
Labrat228
I agree that they don't zerosmelt, my opponent stated "Republicans" (not specifying a time period).
Posted by Zerosmelt 8 years ago
Zerosmelt
err. confusing... basically the terms have changed their meanings over time.
Posted by Zerosmelt 8 years ago
Zerosmelt
labrat... i don't think that you realize that the terms republican and democract in the past didn't refer to people with the same ideologies as they do now.
Posted by Labrat228 8 years ago
Labrat228
Yeah, spell check deleted it, i blindly let it do it.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
It's DebateF.com
Posted by Labrat228 8 years ago
Labrat228
I do believe my opponent didn't specify a certain time period. Therefor we can only assume my opponent was talking about Republicans throughout history. And by the way, thank you for trying debate.org JBlake! Debates.com is currently debate.org's "Official Unofficial" Forum, join us!
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amandakayeLabrat228Tied
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