The Instigator
StopBabyKilling
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
shootingstarmie
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Obama is the worst president in history

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shootingstarmie
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/25/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,834 times Debate No: 59138
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (2)

 

StopBabyKilling

Pro

There are two condemning features of Obama's disastrous presidency that rise above the many others - his lies and broken promises, and his harmful policies. No president in history is as notorious for lying as Obama. While several, Andrew Jackson and Lincoln among them, are known for there humorous tall tales, they all believed that speaking truth as they know it is essential to honor. His specific large and small lies are the subject of countless conservative media publications. Reference Google searches for the terms "Obama lies" and "Obama's worst lies".

A telling aspect of Obama's lying is that he lies with malice of forethought, for political gain. The most notorious example is his lying about his cost rocketing, care-rationing health care law, but his lies about the opposition political party, the Republican Party - many falsely castigating them as heartless, responsible for the deadlock in Congress (it takes two to disagree) - and the fictitious "war on women" - are the most blatantly self serving.

Similarly, Obama's now famous penchant to lie about the role of others, especially President Bush, in causing our countries' ills are purely for Obama's politically benefit. He forever portrays the Republicans as holding up progress of his wonderful bills, which in fact are freedom,stealing , big spending, and short sighted solutions that will harm Americans.

More subtly destructive are his lies about the dire state of the economy before he took office and the causes, and the beneficial effects of his economic policies. The job participation level now is still lower than when he took office, family spendable income is lower, and the difference between the highest an lowest earner's income is greater. The economically literate knows that the downturn was caused by the lowering of qualifications for,mortgages through Liberals' changes to the policies governing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Perhaps his best covered-up lies were those he offered shortly before the 2012 election, about his attempt to portray the attack, which killed our ambassador and three others in Benghazi, as the spontaneous result of anger over a movie, in order to support his campaign lie that Taliban were all but eliminated by his foreign policy.

Still in contention are his lies about his fore knowledge of his IRS's attacks on conservative non-profit organizations.

While his many broken promises are more well known, they are the result of his penchant for lying. The most notorious examples are his pledges to close Guantanimo, lower health care premiums by "$2500", reduce taxes for average Americans (he approved 441 new or increased taxes)', and to reduce the national deficit. He spent more faster than any human ever, when the national debt is the greatest threat to ordinary Americans.

Both his lies and broken promises are an indicator of a greatly flawed, dishonorable, corrupt, and self serving character, not found to as great a degree in any past president. Some, like Buchanan, Grant, and Nixon, were more castigated by the press and public, but none were as blatant, corrupt, and self-serving in dishonor as Obama.

The second condemning feature of his presidency is his harmful policies. These have been more constrained in his second term by a conscientious and patriotic House of Representatives, but never eliminated.

While these disastrous policies are less well-known, because of the positive play they receive in left wing dominated media, they are a horror for ordinary Americans. His national health care push has produced a system far more costly in insurance premiums and deductibles than its predecessor, and is already creating health care rationing,by doctors,who refuse to accept patients who will pay for health services at, the rates allowed by Obamacare. His rocketing tax burden on families and businesses has siphoned funds from families, which they would otherwise spend on goods and services, driving growth in the economy and employment.

Obama's self serving Stimulus policy provided short term $250 gratification for his supporters, bit it not only failed to stimulate, but actually increased the economic impact of the housing crisis, as did his auto industry nationalization. A singular example of corrupt policy is his Justice Department ruling that the auto union pension funds should take precedent over bond holders for assets in the reorganization of the industry, confiscating assets of small citizen bond holders, in favor of unions, against all past precedent and economic justice.

His promise of spending on shovel-ready jobs shows a basic ignorance of Gov. contracting process. To let any large contract, a notice must be published to,enable open competition, giving bidders time to prepare and submit written proposals. The Gov. weighs the technical and cost merits of each, giving preference to women and minority businesses. This process takes many months, and is designed to,give everyone a fair chance and pick the best proposal. Hence there is no such thing as shovel ready jobs, and much of the money set aside for such was wasted elsewhere

Arguably the most dishonorable policy is that of bypassing Congress with executive actions against the interests of ordinary people. He adopted punishing environmental and other regulations which increased unemployment, closed businesses, based on extreme ideological positions anathema to most Americans. A close second is his failure to enforce the laws of the nation, breaking his oath of office. He gave orders to his immigration officials to suspend enforcement of immigration laws, causing a flood of illegal immigrant drug smugglers and other criminals fleeing justice, anchor babies, and vagrants, overwhelming the welfare roles, the police, and prison capacity.

Executive orders are not new or rare, but Obama's are unique, in that they often thwart laws created by Congress, giving himself tyrannical dictatorial powers.

Without a doubt, there has never been a president more harmful to ordinary people, dishonorable, self-serving, inept, and corrupt than Obama. In has done nothing but harm the American people, since he slithered out of the cesspool of Chicago Demonrat politics
shootingstarmie

Con

Sorry for the delay...

I'd like to point out the most of your arguments have no sources, or are opinions. "No president in history has lied as much as Obama." Have you never heard of Richard Nixon? The Clinton scandal? LBJ and Nixon consistently lied about the Vietnam war, and documents have been found to prove this. [1] Then, of course, there's Watergate. I don't know if you're just taking Tea Party rhetoric at face value or not, but these are the kind of lies they're always saying. Did Obama lie on many occasions? Yes. (By the way, Lincoln lied lots of times- look it up.) But Obama didn't lie so much as he was unable to push his promises forward. Why? The GOP has stubbornly blocked him for insane reasons. Obama couldn't carry through on his promise to help the veterans... because the Republicans blocked it unless we placed more sanctions on Iran, as if we don't have enough. Obamacare hasn't worked out well because the full implementation has been blocked by the GOP. Honestly, he's doing his best under the circumstances.

As for his "most dishonorable policy" of executive actions.... what nonsense is this? Most every president has done this. Obama has made 183 executive orders in the past six years. Reagan made 381 in 8 years. Clinton made 364. Bush made 291. [2] There's nothing illegal, dishonorable, or unusual about making executive orders. It's not his fault, anyway. The GOP has made recent Congresses the most inactive in history- no joke. [3] [4] . Unless he passes executive orders, nothing will get done. Maybe Republicans can actually get some work done for once.

Your "Obama's lies" are unfounded. Most of his comments about Republicans are true, it takes a few moments' worth of research to see this. Republicans do have a war on women. They tried to pass H.R. 7, which would have prevented women from choosing insurance that covers contraception. What a woman wants to do is her choice, how dare the GOP interfere with that. Not only that, but they lied about it too, saying it would affect taxpayers, when it doesn't. Who's lying now? [5]

The Republicans are responsible for the deadlock in Congress. They shutdown the government over Obamacare, even though it had nothing at all to do with passing the budget. It was blackmail, and not even Fox has been able to deny this. Sending a nation into panic over an unrelated subject? I do believe that's what's called 'dishonorable'.

I'd like to see any examples of 'short sighted', 'freedom stealing' acts that you've mentioned. Name one essential freedom you've lost because of Obama. You can't. Before you mention the patriot act, that's been in place since 2002. All you did in the opening was repeat the same, basic unfounded rhetoric that's continually spoken by Boehner, Rubio and the rest. Those guys have absolutely no idea what they're saying. A few minutes of research can destroy their arguments. If you provide me with actual examples, we might be able to take this debate further.

Again, when you refer to Obama's 'corrupt character', there's no proof at all for that. He's not greatly flawed, dishonorable or self-serving. You can't provide any examples for this. Evidence, please? You can't go using such claims without an actual argument.

The GOP in the House is the most dishonorable example of a political party since the Baath party of Saddam Hussein. They've done nothing. All they've sought to do is destabilize our politics, lie about Obamacare and its policies, cause total inaction, and now waste millions in taxpayer funds on a ridiculous lawsuit. They should be ashamed to belong to the same party as Lincoln and T. Roosevelt.

"Tyrannical dictatorial powers"? Again, I charge you to provide some evidence for this ridiculous claim. I honestly don't know how I'm supposed to respond to your arguments when you have no sources, evidence or founded claims on the topic. Please properly explain your case.

I conclude my arguments for Round 1.

Sources:
1. http://www.vietnamwar.net...
2. http://www.archives.gov...
3. http://www.pewresearch.org...
4. http://www.debate.org...
5. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Debate Round No. 1
StopBabyKilling

Pro

There are two condemning features of Obama's disastrous presidency that rise above the many others - his lies and broken promises, and his harmful policies. No president in history is as notorious for lying as Obama. While several, Andrew Jackson and Lincoln among them, are known for there humorous tall tales, some lied outright, and all believed that speaking truth as is essential to honor. His specific large and small lies are the subject of countless conservative media publications. Reference Google searches for the terms "Obama lies" and "Obama's worst lies".

A telling aspect of Obama's lying is that he lies with malice of forethought, for political gain. The most notorious example is his lying about his cost rocketing, care-rationing health care law, but his lies about the Republican Party - many falsely castigating them as heartless, responsible for the deadlock in Congress (it takes two to disagree) - and the fictitious "war on women" - are blatantly self serving.

Obama's famous penchant to lie about the role of others, especially President Bush, in causing our countries' ills are purely for Obama's political benefit. He forever portrays the Republicans as holding up progress of his wonderful bills, which in fact are freedom,stealing , big spending, and short sighted solutions that harm Americans.

More destructive are his lies about the dire state of the economy before he took office and the causes, and the benefits, of his economic policies. The job participation level now is still lower than when he took office, family spendable income is lower, and the income gap between the highest an lowest earner's income is greater. The economically literate knows that the downturn was caused by the lowering of qualifications for,mortgages through Liberals' changes to the policies governing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Perhaps his best covered-up lies were those before the 2012 election, about his attempt to portray the attack, which killed our ambassador and three others in Benghazi, as the spontaneous result of anger over a movie, in order to support his campaign lie that Taliban were all but eliminated by his foreign policy.mStill in contention are his lies about his knowledge of his IRS's attacks on opposition organizations.

While his many broken promises are more well known, they are the result of his penchant for lying. The most notorious examples are his pledges to close Guantanimo, lower health care premiums by "$2500", reduce taxes for average Americans (he approved 441 new or increased taxes)', and to reduce the national deficit. He spent more faster than any human ever, when the national debt is the greatest threat to ordinary Americans.

Both his lies and broken promises are an indicator of a flawed, dishonorable, corrupt, and self serving character, not found to as great a degree in any past president. Some, like Buchanan, Grant, and Nixon, were more castigated by the press and public, but none were as blatant, corrupt, and self-serving in dishonor as Obama.

The second condemning feature of his presidency is his harmful policies. These have been more constrained in his second term by a conscientious House of Representatives, but never eliminated.

While these disastrous policies are less well-known, because of the positive play they receive in the,media, they are a horror for ordinary Americans. His national health care push has produced a system far higher insurance premiums and deductibles, and is already creating health care rationing,by doctors,who refuse work for the rates allowed by Obamacare. His rocketing tax burden on families and businesses has siphoned funds from families, which they would otherwise spend on goods and services, driving growth in the economy and employment.

Obama's self serving Stimulus policy provided short term $250 pay off to his supporters, but it not only failed to stimulate, but actually increased the impact of the housing crisis, as did his auto industry nationalization. A singular example of corrupt policy is his Justice Department ruling that the auto union pension funds should take precedent over bond holders for assets in the reorganization of the industry, confiscating assets of small citizen bond holders, in favor of unions, against all past precedent and economic justice.

His promise of spending on shovel-ready jobs shows a basic ignorance of Gov. contracting process. To let any large contract, a notice must be published, with specs, giving bidders time to prepare and submit written proposal. The Gov. Weighs the proposals to pick the best. This process takes months or years. Hence there is no such thing as shovel ready jobs, and much of the money set aside for such was wasted elsewhere.

Arguably his worst policy is bypassing Congress with executive actions against the interests of ordinary people. Head adopted punishing environmental regulations which increased unemployment, closed businesses, based on extreme positions anathema to most Americans. A close second is his failure to enforce the laws of the nation, breaking his oath of office. He gave orders to his immigration officials to suspend enforcement of immigration laws, causing a flood of drug smugglers and other criminals fleeing justice, anchor babies, and vagrants, overwhelming the welfare roles, the police, and prison capacity.

Executive orders are not new or rare, but Obama's are unique, in that many,thwart laws created by Congress, giving himself dictatorial powers

There has never been a president more harmful to ordinary people, dishonorable, self-serving, inept, and corrupt than Obama. In has done nothing but harm us, since he slithered out of the cesspool of Chicago Demonrat politics

ROUND 2
First, on misstatements of my position in Con's Round 1. Of course other presidents lied. It is the frequency, impact, and harm from his lies that makes Obama's lying unique. No one was killed by Nixon's lies or by Clinton's denied sex. Neither lie caused people economic harm or suffering. Four people were killed in the Taliban attack that liar Obama blamed on a movie just before the election, and his lying preserved his election

Obama's lies,that, "you can keep your insurance" ..." your doctor", gained support from many who could have stopped it. The,law caused 6 million to lose coverage and doctors, forced millions into higher cost,policies, or deductibles, and rocketed healthcare costs. While many presidents issued exec orders, Obama's voided laws he swore to enforce. He directed his immigration agents to ignore laws, and dictated regulations not sanctioned in law, ignoring the will of the people, expressed thru their representatives.

No party holding,one house of Congress and not the other can hold up progress alone,it takes,two to disagree, and the Repubs passed 370 bills Harry Reid blocked discussion on in the Senate. The propaganda that Repubs block progress is a settled lie. The position that Repubs were wrong in closing Gov. over Obamacare shows opposition to their position, a bias. House members are elected every 2 years and represent districts within states,,the two Senators per state are elected every six. The,House is more responsive to the will of the people, and holds positions it was elected to hold. Obama's lying to support his dictatorial power has brought about a Constitutional crisis.

Finally HR 7 tried to stop taxpayer funding of baby killing by abortion, not of contraception, refecting the majority opinion of Americans.

1. "252 Documented Examples of Barack Obama Lying...", infowars.com
2. "Dems Block Bills That Would Create Thousands ...", Western Free Press
3. "Obama's Long List,of Broken,Promises", CommentaryMagazine.com
4. "Articles: The Signs of Dictatorship"', www.AmericanThinker.com, 11 July 14
5. "The Reason Shovel Ready Stimulus Did Not Work...", www.forbes.con, 1 Nov 2013
6. "Top Ten Reasons to Defund Planned Parenthood", www.sba-list.org
shootingstarmie

Con

Thanks to my opponent for providing sources. I see this is your first debate here, so you may not know that any and all points you want to make must be made in the debate itself and not in the comments. Just don't do it for the next rounds.

First of all, Obamacare is neither harmful, and it's only unpopular because few people really understand it. I've done a debate about this before, I'll tag it here, but what the facts show is that the individual acts of Obamacare are very popular, ranging from 79% at best to 47% at worst, in fact the more popular the act, the less people know that it's in the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare actually will reduce the deficit by over 1 trillion in 20 years. It's also bringing the rising healthcare cost trend to a halt. I recommend "obamacarefacts.com"- it's a non-partisan webpage that has the actual facts about the act- without media bias. [1] [2]

He doesn't lie about the Republicans. They've blocked veteran care bills because they wouldn't include Iran sanctions. They shut down the govt. because of Obamacare- they didn't have to, because the federal budget didn't really affect Obamacare in the first place. I've already addressed your first 3 paragraphs. [3] [1]

Our economy was a ruin before he took office, and most of his problems were a result of Bush. There's no doubt on that. The debt problem? Our debt in August 2000 was $5.7 trillion. In August 2008 that was $10.5 trillion. Bush spent a wasteful, largely ineffective, unpopular war in the middle east, which shot our deficit through the roof, helped weaken our economy and led to the crash of '08, the result of Bush-era politics. He left office in disgrace. I don't think Obama's worse than that. [4]

As for your job participation claims, unemployment has been dropping significantly. He can't do much more than he can, because Republicans won't let him. In fact, the GOP couldn't care less about the unemployed. At the very least they have health insurance, and Obama has kept on on trying to give them benefits so they don't starve. However, Republicans have both filibustered benefits extensions as well as cut food stamps by $500 billion, even as 9 million live in poverty. I don't blame Obama for calling them heartless at all. [5] [6]

I'm going to address your "loss of freedoms" argument that you put in the comments.

Most of the "freedoms lost" you listed in the comments aren't freedoms at all. "Right to have no insurance" isn't a right. Everybody has to have insurance in order to stabilize rising healthcare costs and get insurance to the poor. Freedom from crime by illegals isn't a right you lost- we've got police. So long as criminals exist, nobody has freedom from crime. As Gen. Colin Powell stated, voter fraud isn't really a serious issue in this country, so it's not necessary. The rest of your supposed "lost freedoms" are either blatant lies (freedom from business-destroying regulations, what on earth) or not even rights. This country has laws for a reason- people have certain unalienable rights, but you can't have the right to everything, because that would be anarchy.

Why can't the GOP just shut up over Benghazi? It was a terrorist attack. The perpetrator is now in custody. Get over it. IT had nothing to do with Obama. Several hundred security contractors were killed in Iraq under Bush, but nobody mentioned them. The insane 'journalists' at Fox will bring it up anytime they need to attack Obama, and that's all it is. Even the official GOP report on it found no real scandal. It's all propaganda. [7]

Half the population is pro-choice. So don't give me nonsense about the majority opinion of the country. 78% believes it should be allowed in all or certain situations. [8]

Again with Obama being a dictator. He's obliged to pass the laws he needs to pass, and he takes executive action only because Congress is doing a horrendous job. I've already mentioned this. The House often forgets that it represents people. It's not carrying out the will of the people when it's trying to sue Obama (57% of population says no) or impeach him (65% say no) or shut down the government (almost everybody says no). [9]

Your opening Round 2 arguments are nonsense as well. Obama hasn't directly or really indirectly caused suffering or economic harm, he's working against it. Clinton and Obama are the only two presidents to have reduced the deficit in recent decades. Nobody was killed by Nixon's lies- except for tens of thousands of American soldiers fighting in Viet Nam fighting a war that he knew was lost.

The you can keep your insurance was a lie, but for those who it did affect it usually moved them to a plan that covered the minimum requirements of Obamacare. However, it was a blatant lie. But almost every president made major lies to some degree, (Bush, Nixon, Clinton, Grant, even Reagan), and this lie isn't that much more severe, and certainly not worthy of putting him as the worst president.

Regardless of whether or not you think Obama is good or bad, remember that the debate only concerns whether he was the absolute worst, and Obama is not fitting of that title.

So, in conclusion, I have proved my opponent's arguments to be mostly unfounded, defended Obama's policies, explained and countered my opponent's arguments, and as a result upheld my claim that Obama is not the worst president in history.

I look forward to my opponent's response.

Sources:
1. http://www.debate.org...
2. obamacarefacts.com
3. http://thinkprogress.org...
4. http://www.usdebtclock.org...
5. http://www.nationaljournal.com...
6. http://www.motherjones.com...
7. http://gawker.com...
8. http://www.gallup.com...
9. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...
Debate Round No. 2
StopBabyKilling

Pro

The spending by the Obama dwarfs all previous presidencies. He spent more faster than an human in history, when the National debt is our greatest threat. As of August 4, the debt stands at 17.6 $Trillion, up 7 $Trillion since the spending fiend took office, and is on a track to more than double the 10.6 $Trillion when he took office, during his presidency. During, Obama's first term the debt increased by more than it did in Bush's two terms. [4, 5]

People misunderstand one reason for the Gov. shutdown. The Senate, for the first time refused to pass a budget as required by the Constitution annually, not once, but three times, breaking their oath of,office. They refused to discuss any of the many budgets passed. by the House. There was no way to turn from the economy busting 10-year out,year budget and protect the people from Obamacare, except by shutdown.

Of course , a significant part of the huge increase is the rocketing health care costs due to Obamacare. I have actually read most of the original bill. The CBO' s updated estimate indicates that Obamacare will increase the,debt by 1.48 $Trillion under projected budget. Also, the people are beginning to grasp the harm that Obamacare will do them, and the Kaiser Family,Foundation poll found that its negative rating grew to 53% in July. The cost and disapproval rating pale when compared with an apples to apples drop in benefits under Obamacare. The number of plans available to subscribers is tiny by comparison, and average premiums, already higher than before, will increase,an average of 8.1%. to 11.2% across insurers next year, while new deductibles for such things as imaging ($150 per image) are in place, and the crushing load of new regulations impose 159 million hours of added labor on insurers, patients, and hospitals. [1, 2, 3, 6]

Bush had no responsibility for the economic downturn that began in late 2008 and early 2009 and is still ongoing. As indicated previously, the fiscally literate know that the housing crisis was caused by reduced requirements on mortgage borrowers, through relaxed (by Fannie Mae and,Freddie Mac, quasi Governmental organizations that held half of all,mortgages) mortgage underwriting standards, changes in the capital reserve calculation rules, and the Community Reinvestment Act, which required bank examiners to evaluate banks,based on their responsiveness to community organizers such as ACORN, to increase affordable housing. Banks eventually allowed interest only mortgages with no down payment and no proof of employment, even to illegal aliens, which rocketed mortgages to borrowers who could not pay their mortgages. When housing prices declined, the crap hit the fan. These destructive changes were brought about by liberal Democrats in Congress and HUD, chiefly under the Clinton regime. Bush sent a letter to Congress warning of the dangers.[9]. Dishonorably, Obama to this day blames Bush. Another example of his corrupt and dishonorable character.

Several of Con's statements display unsupported bias against Republicans, which is often brought on in people by belief in the unerring views of main stream media - "Republicans could care less about unemployed", "Most of his problems were a result of Bush", "I don't blame him for calling them heartless...", "He doesn't lie about,Republicans", "..insane journalists at Fox", "unfounded rhetoric by Boehner...". There is at least as much factual evidence for lying, deceit, and self serving motives of Democrats as Republicans [10 - 14]. I found that many people are unwilling to believe that the media bias against Republicans is prevalent. Suffice it to say, it is wise to do your research yourself. [11 - 15]

89 House Democrats voted for the 2.2 $Billion cut in food stamps over ten years. Enrollment in food stamps,has increased 70% since the "Food Stamp President" took office, belying the claim that poverty has not exploded. [16]. There was no cash cut in food stamps. The Republicans attempted to increase the threshold of heating bill assistance to $20 that automatically qualified a person for food stamps. In other words, they tried to increase the amount of heat help that got you food stamps. The State Governors immediately voided the threshold by increasing heat assistance. [17].

As discussed in the previous arguments, the deleterious effect of Obama's economic policies are,extreme, and his recent attempts to bolster his accomplishment in that arena again show,his self-serving and corrupt nature. He has lengthened and deepened the downturn, and any perceived improvement in the economy are in spite of, not due to them. Peter Ferrara's article summarizes the case for Obama's utter failure, as well as most. [21]

One has to be careful in citing numbers like "9 million live poverty". A more accurate,statement is that "9 million would live in poverty, if it were not for Government assistance", The,same criteria used to determine poverty,level,is used to determine eligibility for assistance of all,kinds., including welfare, aid to children, heating assistance, rent payments, and innumerable other kinds of assistance our hugely compassionate taxpayers provide the needy. Without both Republican and Democrat,votes none of this would exist. Obama is forever decrying his opponents as uncaring, yet without their support, none of this would exist. This is dishonest and self serving of Obama, as usual.

63% of Americans believe that voter fraud,is a serious problem, including the majority of black and Hispanic voters. Lyndon Johnson admitted that his first Senatorial election victory was won through Democrat voting place fraud, without which he would not have been nominated for and won the Vice Presidency and inherited the Presidency. In the 2012 Ohio elections, 135 cases of voter fraud were proved,and was believed by many to have swung several elections, but never proved. [18 - 19] The declination of the issue is another case of misleading statements to the contrary by,a corrupt president and his media allies.

1. "Face it, Liberals: Obamacare,will,increase the Federal Deficit", Washington Examiner, 15 Feb. 2014
2. "CBO Quietly Drops Estimate that Obamacare will Cut the Deficit", Eric Pianin, The Fiscal Times, 5 Jun 2014
3. "Updated Estimates of the Insurance Care Provisions of the Affordable Care Act, Congressional Budget,Office, Jessica Bansin and Sara Masi
4. "Obama's national debt rate on track to double", Dave Boyer, The Washington Times, 9 Oct 2013
5. "CBO: Obama Budget for Fiscal 2014 adds 5.2 trillion in deficits", Eric Wasson, The Hill, 17 May 2014
6. "Suddenly, Obamacare is more unpopular than ever", Washington Post, Jason Millman, 1 Aug 2014
7. "Big Increases in Obamacare Premiums and Deductibles Coming in November", FiscalTimes, Edward Morissey, 5 May,2014
8. "Obamacare: Death by Paperwork", New York Post, Betsy Mcauhey, July 2014
9. "The Subprime Mortgage Crisis", Wikipedia
10. "Midterm Primer: Democrats Care, Republicans Hate You", bernardgoldberg.com, 1 Jun 2014
11. "Lies the Dems Tell Themselves", RealClearPolitics, 27 October 13
12. "Democrats More Tolerant of Liars than Republicans", lessgovisbestgov.com, Scott Rotherham, Jul 2012
13. "When a Democrat Lies It Never an Actual Lie", The Daily Caller, Jim Treachery
14. "The Democratic Part Lies for Money", Powerline, John Hinderaker, 28 Aug 2013
15. Scholarly Articles for Media Bias Against Republicans, Google.com
16. "Food Stamp President: Enrollment Up 70 Percent Under,Obama",Mathew Washington Times, Cheryl Chumley, 28 Mar 2013
17. "Cheat and Eat Food Stamps", The Wall Street Journal, 9 Mar 2014
18. "The Reality of Voter Fraud", The National Review Online, John Fund, 2 May 2012
19. "A History Lesson: How Lyndon Johnson 'won' His First Election"', The,New York Times
20. "Obama's Staggering Record of Failure",Commentary, Peter Wehner, 4 Apr 2014
21. "Barack Obama's Presidency is a Complete Failure by His Own Self-Imposed Standards", Forbes, Peter Ferrara, 31 Dec 20
shootingstarmie

Con

Sorry I'm late again, I've been really, really ill and I can't do as well a job as I'd like to.

To answer your Obama spending issues, I should bring up the point that the debt increase includes the interest paid on earlier debts. Also, in terms of % of GDP, government spending hasn't increased all that much, only 2%. Considering that that increase from Obama's stimulus was necessary to keep the whole economy from collapsing, you can't blame Obama for all of it. I should also mention that spending as % of GDP has steadily decreased since '09, going from 25.2% then to 23% today. [1]

Let's look at the spending in the heaviest spending year, 2009. Out of $203 billion spent, $114 billion went into the stimulus. Here's another defense for Obama- the stimulus did work. It created or saved 1.6 million jobs annually, cut poverty by 5.3 million people, and improved 42,000 miles of road. It could have done more with more money, but the GOP wouldn't let it... but back on topic. 32 billion more was spent on agencies Bush didn't fund, and the rest was mostly for military and bailout purposes. [2] [3]

I think I've made it clear by this point that Obamacare is not harmful, is generally popular without elements of partisanship and propaganda, reduces the deficit by over a trillion, and provides health insurance to all. The Republicans weren't 'protecting' the people from Obama care, it was pure politics. They were willing to plunge the US into chaos. The Tea Party apparently decided that bankruptcy was better than universal health insurance.

Obamacare doesn't add 1.48 trillion to the debt, that's what it costs. There's a difference. However, it will overall decrease the deficit and reduces the health care spending growth by tens of billions. Meaning, when your parents are of retirement age, they'll still be able to afford health insurance, rather than being left to their fate. I've mentioned the 1 trillion deficit reduction. It won't pay for itself, because it does insure the poor, but how else will the poor get insurance? The things you mentioned as bad I can either not find or are normal. It reduces plans so that they can be safely regulated, that's all. And about the extra paperwork, I looked at your source. It's the only article that says so, and it has no sources. [4] [5]

As for the media bias, MSN has a bias against Republicans, Fox hates Obama, and the circle of hate goes. I honestly only watch the BBC (unpolitical, foreign and accurate) for news. I recommend it to anyone because it doesn't disguise anyone's flaws. But when I mentioned that they don't care about the poor, I mean it. I haven't seen the GOP do anything to help them. Some Democrats voting to reduce it by 2.2 billion was a bipartisan effort. Last year, the Republicans tried to push a $40 BILLION cut against the food stamp program, which came about after radical Republicans vetoed a 20 billion cut on the grounds that it didn't cut enough money. Enough said. That's why I suggested that the Republicans are heartless, and that Obama wasn't lying about the GOP being that way. What else can I say when they leave the poor like that? That, and I've explained in my arguments why Boehner is wrong, and I don't need an explanation for Fox. My 'bias' is supported.[6] [7]

Before I continue, I reiterate that this is about whether Obama was the worst, not whether he's bad. So, some other presidential failures:

Coolidge- failed to help the agricultural sector, sent food prices soaring. Placed no regulations on the economy, and his policies directly contributed to the Great Depression. [8]
Nixon- Watergate, and he knowingly sent American men to their deaths for a lost cause.
W. Bush- sent our debt skyrocketing with an unsuccessful war, unpopular around the war, damaged our prestige.
Hoover- during the Great Depression, he didn't intervene, and the markets crashed further, the opposite of what Obama did. [9]
Grant- unbelievably inept. Placed corrupt friends in office, presided over the Panic of 1873.

Obama is way better than these people. Can you justify placing Obama at the bottom?

Again and again, you refer to Obama as corrupt. How is he corrupt? He doesn't steal money, nor is he influenced by illegal elements. Self-serving? Do his policies make him even richer? Please elaborate.

As for the economy, it's going back up. The GDP increased 4% last quarter, and increased in 49 states. Sounds fine to me. [10] It would be a lot better, only the wealth gap is slowing it down. Again, the Republicans are stopping efforts for income inequality, such as raising the minimum wage. Obama has to face them too. [11]

I'm sorry about the 9 million thing, I misread the article. The official, untainted census records show that 46.5 million people live in poverty in the US, as of 2012. [12] [13] And that's not 'what would happen', that's what already exists. The food stamp cuts would affect more than 15% of the population. That's how many people it will affect.

Despite what the population may think, voter fraud is a joke. It exists, yes, but hardly in significant quantities. I don't care about 50 years ago, but a Brennan center report, 4 govt. inquiries, numerous news investigations and court rulings have all found voter fraud to be an issue with little substance. Up to 95% of fraud allegations turn out to be human error. Those Republican fears are unsubstantiated. Whether they genuinely believe it or just want to keep certain groups from the polls... I don't know. [14] [15]

To conclude, I have again defended Obama's policies, countered my opponent's claims and given examples of worse presidents.

Sources:
1. http://www.washingtonpost.com...
2. http://www.factcheck.org...
3. http://www.nytimes.com...
4. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
5. http://obamacarefacts.com...
6.http://www.motherjones.com...
7. http://www.nationaljournal.com...
8. http://millercenter.org...
9. http://www.gilderlehrman.org...
10. https://www.bea.gov...
11. http://abcnews.go.com...
12. http://www.npc.umich.edu...
13. https://www.census.gov...
14. http://www.washingtonpost.com...
15. http://www.usnews.com...
Debate Round No. 3
StopBabyKilling

Pro

I wish Con improved health and a quick recovery.

In Rounds 1 and 2, Pro presented an overpowering case that Obama is the worst president, based on two criteria, lies and broken promises - i.e., integrity " and harmful policies - i.e., negative accomplishments, which Con tried and failed to rebut.

In Round 3, Con tried to defend Obama"s unequaled 2009 spending, with excuses that part of the $209 billion spent was $114B for the stimulus, which grew jobs, and that he spent only 23% of GDP. These excuses were disproved in Rounds 1 and 2. In addition, Obama actually spent an all-time record $3.52 Trillion, and the $800B earmark-laden Stimulus grew to $2 Trillion, and actually lost jobs and hurt the economy. If it is OK for spending to rise with GDP, then the debt may increase unboundedly, and we will never balance the budget, before certain fiscal Armageddon. Spending should decrease in absolute terms until the budget is balanced, and we can begin paying off the debt. [22, 23]

When the Stimulus was signed, unemployment was near 8%. Obama projected it would never rise above 8% (It did) and would plunge to 5% by Dec. 2013. The jobless rate this January was 6.6%, with an abysmal labor force participation rate of 63%. 5 years after the Act, 10.2 million people are out of work, and Americans not in the labor force who want a job has exploded - by some estimates, a record 90M. After $150B in stimulus and other spending on green energy boondoggles, 32 Obama-backed green firms went bankrupt as of Feb. 2014, including Solyndra at a cost to taxpayers of $535 million; Beacon Power, $240M; Abound Solar, $400M, Fisker Auto , $529M, etc., etc. [24]

While Obama"s domestic policy is the worst ever, his foreign policy is worse. Every region of the world that his weak and wrong policies touched is worse off because of them. Al Qaida is on the rise throughout the Muslim world and beyond. Nations no longer look to America as the strong defender of freedom; as a result hot points everywhere have flared and aggression is reigniting against our friends, threatening our critical interests [25, 26, 27]:

.Syria is in Civil War. Obama shrunk from his "red line" and his original support of Al Qaida there
.Iraq is also in civil war, fostered by Obama"s failure to sign a Status of Forces Agreement
.Iran is moving ahead with its nuclear bomb research, fortified by Obama"s reduction in sanctions, with no corresponding commitment to end pursuit of the bomb
.Iran"s funding and supply of terrorist groups has sparked violence throughout North Africa
Source 27 seems to be a lucid statement reflecting some of his numerous failures.

Obama is the most corrupt president ever. Any president who knowingly lies without bound, speaks one way and acts another, makes promises he knows will not be met, and continues to spend record amounts of our hard earned money on policies that hurt not help us, as Obama has done for political gain is corrupt. All of this was demonstrated in previous rounds and supported by numerous sources. [29, 30]

When compared with those considered the worst presidents, there is no doubt Obama is infinitely worse. While most are criticized for either their lack of integrity or their bad policies, Obama failed spectacularly in both areas.

As to those considered the two worst up to now, Buchanan and Harding:

Buchanan: Presided over the dissolution of the Union. He did not challenge the states intending to leave the Union after Lincoln's election. He supported compromises enabling slavery to spread to the western territories, including, the Kansas-Nebraska Act, allowing settlers to permit slavery in their states. While he opposed other policies later embraced by history, he is condemned largely for his positions in the context of the huge historical issues leading to the Civil War. The war broke out as an immediate result of Lincoln"s election, and would have, whatever Buchanan did.
Obama is the worst president, due not to one external issue, but to his lack of integrity and his bad policies across the board, as detailed above. Also, he brought about three Constitutional crises of his own: 1) He directed the Executive branch to disobey Federal Law, 2) he initiated Executive Branch actions in areas over which Congress has purview, and 3) he permitted his party, in control of the Senate, to ignore Congress"s Constitutional mandate to pass a budget annually, all for the first time in history.

Buchanan was not a copious liar and as uncaring as Obama is. He stated his position on slavery issues directly; he believed in these positions, and he certainly did not state them for political gain, as Obama does. Also, he did not break major campaign and policy promises, as Obama does routinely, and he passed no law as crushing as Obamacare, and had a far less negative impact on the economy of the day, than the previous arguments proved Obama had.
Harding: is condemned for his lack of integrity and his corruption. "He busied himself with golf, poker, and his mistress, while appointees and cronies plundered the U.S. government in a variety of creative ways. His secretary of the interior allowed oilmen, for a modest under-the-table sum, to tap into government oil reserves".
He signed the first federal child welfare program, and supported an 8-hour work day. He created the Bureau of the Budget to prepare the Federal budget. He advocated an anti-lynching bill to curb violence against African Americans, he negotiated peace treaties with Germany and Austria, and he promoted the world's major naval powers" agreement on a naval limitations program that held sway for a decade.

While Harding was condemned on a moral basis, Obama is condemned for all manner of corruption I to his self-serving lies, deceit, and broken promises, as well as his terrible policies, which hurt the economy and the middle class, stimulate unemployment, grew Government tyranny over our lives, and enslaved us with new crushing taxes and regulations, as detailed previously.

Obama"s corruption is personal. As proved, he lies and makes bad promises more than any president, and he fosters the same throughout his regime. Source 30 documents a few (252) examples of his corruption.
Thus neither of the presidents previously considered the worst can compare to Obama"s failure as a president and human being.
----
22. "FY 2009 Federal Budget, the Story Behind the Largest Federal Deficit in History", http://useconomy.about.com..., Kimberly Amadeod
23."Did Stimulus Create Any Jobs?", http://www.forbes.com..., Lee E. Ohanian, 24 Feb 2010
24."Five Years Later: How's that Wreckovery Working Out?", http://www.realclearpolitics.com..., Michele Malkin, 14 Feb 2014
25."Yes, Obama"s foreign policy failures could get worse", http://www.washingtonpost.com..., Jennifer Rubin, 15 Jul 14
26."Barack Obama's Foreign Policy: An Utter Failure", http://www.americanthinker.com...,
27."Obama's Many Foreign Policy Failures", http://www.realclearworld.com..., Macubin, Thomas Owens, 14 Jan 2014
28."The Worst Ten Presidents" , U.S. News and World Report, 13 Jul 2010
29."Mindblowing: 252 Well-Cited Examples of Obama Corruption, Cronyism, Lying & Lawbreaking", http://www.ijreview.com..., Kyle Becker,
30."Is The Obama Administration the Most Corrupt in U.S. History?", http://www.huffingtonpost.com..., Eric Zeuss, 16 Apr 2013
shootingstarmie

Con

I will conclude with rebuttals in order of my opponent's arguments in this round. I should also mention that Pro keeps posting arguments within the comments; you're not supposed to do that.

Pro did not present an overpowering case that Obama is the worst at all. I have fully debunked his claims, explained is so called 'harmful policies' and 'negative accomplishments' not to be so. Since Pro failed to provide rationale for this statement, I will rationalize mine. I did explain that Obamacare provides insurance for all and reduces the deficit, listed the partisanship problems Obama faces, and defended his actions for the poor. Since Pro has not provided a logically correct rebuttal to this, I will claim that my arguments for these actions were, "overpowering cases".

I don't see how my 'excuses' were debunked. The 144 billion stimulus, job growth, and the 23% of GDP are facts taken from official govt. or non-partisan org. sources, which I listed in the sources. As for my opponent's arguments that the stimulus ended up costing 2 trillion, those are nonsense, and I can find no credible sources for this. The 787 billion price tag for the stimulus was not all spent in '09- the spending is spread out to 2016, after which the stimulus actually reduces the deficit. [1] [6][8]. My 23% statement was right- 3.52 trillion is 23% of the GDP, so don't lie. As for your claim that the govt. should stop spending in a crisis, I remind you that that's what Hoover did. And it ruined the country even more. [2]

Obama's prediction of going to 5% was basically assuming that his plan would go through- which it didn't. The Republicans have largely blocked his plans. I remind you that the president doesn't work in a vacuum, there are other factors at play.

Granted, job recovery has been slow, and Obama hasn't done everything he should on it. He isn't perfect. As for your 90 million unemployed in America statement, that includes children and retired persons...

The Middle East is in decay because of Bush-era policies. The withdrawal was begun under Obama, yes, but remember why we invaded. Bush gave a complete and total lie about Saddam's chemical weapons, told the populace that they would be greeted as liberators, and installed an unpopular puppet to rule. The majority of Americans blame Bush for these failures. [3][4]

"Corrupt" is defined by the dictionary as 'guilty of dishonest practices' and 'debased in character'. You didn't prove anything in the previous rounds, all accusations have been debunked. [5] Obama has made mistakes, but he isn't either of those. As I said, he hasn't lied so much as he hasn't followed through on promises (mostly due to the GOP), but he isn't a bad person. Therefore, he cannot be called corrupt. Solyndra was a disaster, just as every other president has had a disaster, such as the Contra affair with Reagan, the Iraq controversies with Bush, etc.

Again speaking about the Middle East, we don't have any alternatives. We don't have any right to tell other nations what to do, especially with the havoc our own policies have wrought on the world. If we intervene militarily, we'll just get stuck in another quagmire. Obama knows this, so he avoids conflict.

Obama cannot be compared with the disastrous policies of many of his predecessors, he is far better than Coolidge and his economic failures, Nixon and his scandal, and the widely discredited Bush. Your accusations that Obama has broken federal laws are lies. He hardly oversteps his boundaries- which ends up meaning that less gets done. Reagan broke the law more, shipping weapons to Iran (violating the embargo), and Bush illegally invaded Iraq and caused a war that's killed thousands.

I should also note that the negative attributes Pro pins on Obama are shared by basically every politician to a greater or lesser degree. I'm also not sure where the Buchanan argument comes from, or the point of it. He was a good president. But we're debating about whether Obama was the worst, not whether he was the best, or better.

Looking at Pro's source for Obama's alleged corruption, I don't see any corruption that's been personally attributed to Obama, but rather corrupt dealings in businesses and in some federal elements.

Again- I remind you of Nixon- who was proven to corrupt over tapes of him being shown to be perfectly aware of Watergate. In one taped interview, he mentioned that the "press is the enemy... the professors are the enemy" (with regard to Vietnam) Here is a man who is against the ideals of our Constitution, despises the press, and goes against the popular will of the people with regard to an important issue of the time. [7]

Conclusion:
For the reasons proven in my above arguments, I have defended Obama's policies, proven my opponent's arguments to be unfounded, and given sufficient evidence of worse presidents to affirm that Obama was not at all the worst president in history.

I thank my opponent for an interesting debate.

Sources:

1. http://www.nytimes.com...
2. http://www.gilderlehrman.org...
3. http://nationalinterest.org...
4. http://thinkprogress.org...
5. http://dictionary.reference.com...
6. http://www.usnews.com...
7. http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
8. http://www.factcheck.org...
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
Master liar and spending fiend Obama should never have been elected, but because he gave the guilt ridden a chance to atone for their inherited guilt, he was. He lacked almost all the knowledge and experience needed to be President, in these times of rocketing debt, government control, and government dependence. Predictably, he has hurt the country greatly and set presidences in self serving lying, usurpation of the Constitution, and economic and Foreign policy that will corrupt policy for generations. Our decendants will never know the scope of the harm he has done, because he will be forever cloaked the mantle of first black president.
Posted by Anotherpointofview 2 years ago
Anotherpointofview
I had high hopes for Obama. He made a critical mistake that really hurt his presidency. In business you do not make this mistake. He pushed obamacare onto the nation. Healthcare reform was a good idea but in any and all endeavors you must have consensus to lead. I think he let his personal ideology control him to the point that he forgot that principle. The promise of keeping your Dr did not help him. I am sad to say his leadership style will cast him possibly the worst next to carter. I don't care how brave you are or how much you may dislike republicans you can't run into an opposition like that without paying a high political price. His only hope now is to get enough people on high subsidy to create a large constituency
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
All I have is my iPhone this week, so I'll check in again next week.
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
Meaning of "Obama is self-serving". He lies and breaks promises, blames others for his immense failures, for his own benefit, and political gain.
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
I am aware that the text of my comments, together with my arguments text will exceed the text limit on arguments. To the judges: please do no read,or consider these comments when judging my arguments. They are meant to educate and forward my personal viewpoint to other readers, who are not judges, but have strong positions on Obama's presidency.
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
It is hard to believe that anyone can feel that Obama cares anything about others, when he persists with policies for six years that hurt us. Pick any of his policies, and their net effect has been to hurt ordinary working people, when alternative policies,would have helped us. I have had doctors refuse to treat me, because my insurance pays them too little under Obamacare, even though my monthly insurance premiums are $100 more, and I now have a deductible of $1000 versus $200. This hurts me and my family, because we have to do without ordinary things. This forced charity helps those who already could get treated at emergency rooms for free, when other programs could have been much more effective, such as increasing the Medicaid roles.

Some of his policies are down right ludicrous, such as Cash for Clunkers, which forced auto dealers to permanently disable the so called "clunkers", removing them altogether from the national inventory. This caused used car shortages, which in turn caused use car prices to rocket, more than balancing any predicted savings in energy cost due to the efficiency of newer cars. Also, this policy produced no net long term increase in energy savings, because it simply enabled those who would have traded in their cars anyway to do it a little earlier at great expense to ordinary taxpayers who have to pay the cash in Cash for Clunkers.

All of this was predictable and was predicted, when the crazy C for C law was passed. The same predictability occurred with the horrendous Obamacare law. It was predicted that the bogus strategy would increase costs for ordinary people and cause rationing of both medical care and technology. Sure enough, that is happening, and quicker than expected. No amount of suffering seems to satisfy Obama., who will spend any amount of other peoples' money in pursuit of his Socialist dream world.
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
FYI: Richard Nixon did not resign because of any reputed lies about the Vietnam war. He resigned because of lies regarding the Watergate burglary.

Up until the middle of his last term, the public was behind him on his position on the war. The war was never lost, in the military,sense. America defeated the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese
regulars, at every turn, with,a great disparity in casualties, battles won, etc. Hence, Nixon did not continue letting Americans get killed after he knew it was lost. It was "lost" because public opinion changed regarding the worth of continuing the war.

In fact, it was Nixon who initiated the pull out of Vietnam, against opposition from the South Vietnamese, after negotiating a Peace Accord with the opposing forces, which called for a truce, in which both sides were to withdraw,, until the South Vietnamese conducted,a supervised election, to determine their fate. While we were,in the last phase of withdrawal the North Vietnamese launched a full scale attack, breaching the accord.

If Nixon can be faulted poor his war policy, it is for abandoning South Vietnam to the communists, after they broke the accord, without re-inserting troops to protect the South Vietnamese. As a result,of this failure, two million South Vietnamese men, women, and children were purged (killed) by the Communists.

"Vietnam War: End of the Conflict" about.com military history, Kennedy Hickman
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
FYI: Any non harmful. ability that Government takes away from us is a lost freedom. Anything that Government makes us do that we died not have to do before takes away a freedom not to do it.

Just because someone may believe that there is,a social benefit,to taking away a freedom, it does not mean the freedom is not taken away, or that taking it away iin reality balances the loss of the freedom
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
More sources:
7. "Binge: Obama' s Budget Packed with New Spending and Tax Hikes, Never Balances, Townhall.com, March 4, 2014
8. "Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes: Listed by Size of Tax Hike", Americans for Tax Reform, 2012
9. "Taxmageddon, Massive Tax Increase Coming in 2013", The Heritage Foundation, 2012
10. "Mindblowing: 252 Well Cited Examples of Obama Corruption, Cronyism, Lying & Lawbreaking", IJReview
11. "President Obama's Dishonorable Deal", RealClearPolitics, 4 June 2015
12. "BERGDAHL BUNGLE: Disgraceful, Dishonorable, Smearing of Brave Warfighters", LibertyNews
Posted by StopBabyKilling 2 years ago
StopBabyKilling
Freedoms that Obama eliminated or worked against
1. To pick your health insurance
2. To do without health insurance
3. Not to,pay for other peoples contraceptives
4. Of a baby to live in the womb
5. To chose your doctor
6. from health care penalty
7. of religion not to finance abortions - hobby lobby
8. to elect representatives whose laws will not be ignored or subverted by the executive branch
9. Freedom from crime by illegal. aliens
10. Freedom from danger of default on national debt
11. To elect representatives whose bills are discussed in the,Senate
12. Of conservative organizations from IRS oppression
13. From SEIU intimidation at polling places
14. Freedom from election fraud due to ineligible voters, dead or duplicate voters let through by lack of voting place IDs
15. From the assumption of racism because we oppose Obama's terrible policies
16. To garner the benefits of a president who honors his oath to execute the law
17. From tax enslavement that destroys the pursuit of happiness
18. From the new, rapacious regulations that destroy our businesses and leave us unemployed
19. From tyrannical government that acts in its own interests, rather than the people's
20. From the crushing burden of Obama's 441 new or increased taxes
21. From the rationing of health care caused by Obamacare (which I have experienced)
22. From the political correctness belief, Obama tries to foist on us.
23. From the constant stream of lies from the,president and his fellow big spending Democrats
24. To,purchase Government,lands unused and wasted because,of Obama's new land restrictions.
25. From a a biased Justice,Department,head,,who refuses,to,prosecute,many voting place, illegal immigrant, black on white crimes.

I can add genuine freedoms taken away by the Obama,administration endlessly.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
StopBabyKillingshootingstarmieTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Even when asked to cease inside the debate, pro continued to violate the character limit by posting extra arguments into the comment section. As this was pro's first debate, I will be nice and not grade the other areas (I spotted the conduct slip before reading anything, which causes a bias).
Vote Placed by Phoenix61397 2 years ago
Phoenix61397
StopBabyKillingshootingstarmieTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't really fulfill their burden that Obama was the "worst" president in history. Con put up a pretty good defense for Obama, and kept pro from fulfilling that burden. I'm glad this debate strayed from the attacking of the opposite side of the political spectrum of the first few rounds of the debate.