The Instigator
CMBlovesdebate
Con (against)
Losing
34 Points
The Contender
Freeman
Pro (for)
Winning
51 Points

Obama moves to end the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 13 votes the winner is...
Freeman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/11/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,663 times Debate No: 10071
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (13)

 

CMBlovesdebate

Con

Don't Ask Don't Tell is the military term referring to the policy regarding gays and lesbians. The policy, signed in 1993 by former president Bill Clinton, was implemented as a compromise with legislature which opposed a repeal of the prior ban on gays in the military.

According to the Department of Defense the policy states: Established under the premise of privacy, discretion and protection, the policy bans gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender people from serving in the military and prevents military officials from asking interrogatory questions or pursuing investigations of soldiers suspected of being homosexuals. Any service member that openly reveals their homosexuality through words or actions is discharged from service.

On October 10, 2009, President Barack Obama reaffirmed a promise he claimed during his campaign- to end the ban against gays in the military, thus ending the Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy.

The policy was made for the protection of gays after a Allen Schindler Jr., U.S. Navy Radioman, was murdered because he was a homosexual.

President Obama will be jeopardizing the safety of gays who currently serve and will serve if he ends the policy; much less, if the policy is banned, it has potential to create tension so potent in our armed forces that it would distract our soldiers from being able to efficiently perform their assigned tasks.

The policy should not be banned. Hiding ones sexual identity should be a small price to pay if they are truly dedicated to serving their country.
Freeman

Pro

I thank CMBlovesdebate for starting this debate and I look forward to what should be a stimulating intellectual exchange.

*Case Pro: Rebuttals*

1A. Unit Cohesion

"President Obama will be jeopardizing the safety of gays who currently serve and will serve if he ends the policy; much less, if the policy is banned, it has potential to create tension so potent in our armed forces that it would distract our soldiers from being able to efficiently perform their assigned tasks."

The notion that unit cohesion would be jeopardized if don't ask don't tell were removed is demonstrably false. Consider, as though for the first time, the sheer number of countries where gays can serve openly in the military.

1. Argentina 2. Australia 3. Austria 4. Belgium 5. Bermuda 6. Canada 7. Czech Republic 8. Denmark 9. Estonia 10. Finland 11. France 12. Germany 13. Ireland 14. Israel 15. Italy 16. Lithuania 17. Luxembourg 18. The Netherlands 19. New Zealand 20. Norway 21. Philippines 22. Romania 23. Slovenia 24. South Africa 25. Spain 26. Sweden 27. Switzerland 28. United Kingdom 29. Uruguay [1]

The lies promulgated by don't ask don't dell proponents become transparently obvious in light of this data. These country's militaries function just fine with gays serving openly.

1B. Regarding the safety of gay military personnel

Hatred of gays is the result of many things, namely religion and ignorance. While I view the two as being synonymous it is important that I parse them for the sake of my argument. Homophobia is a disease wrought from ignorance that is cured through compassion and knowledge. If our goal is to protect gays then we should promote science, reason, and compassion to combat people's bigotry. By forcing gays to live a lie with don't ask don't tell we only further encourage their mistreatment and the discrimination that surrounds them.

*Case Pro*

Contention 1: Don't ask don't tell is harmful to the armed forces and therefore to the nation.

Many qualified soldiers have been discharged from our military simply because of their sexual orientation. [2]-[3] For example, many highly qualified Arabic linguists in the military have been discharged as a result of don't ask don't tell. [4] Not only is this policy fantastically stupid, it is counterproductive and dangerous given how critical Arabic linguists are to our various military excursions.

In this time of social instability and warfare it is simply unconscionable for the United States to expel some of the most qualified and brilliant soldiers in the nation simply because they are not heterosexual. Don't ask don't tell is a bad joke that weakens our standing in the war on terror and unfairly discriminates against people over something to which they have no control over. Its abolishment is not just necessary to end discrimination against gays, but for the protection of our very nation.

========
Conclusion
========

If we as a nation choose to allow fictitious lunacy to guide our public policy then we deserve the dysfunctional results that will likely follow. Don't ask don't tell is a discriminatory policy that forces brave soldiers to live a lie. Moreover, it jeopardizes our military standing as a nation because some of the most qualified members of the military are gay. Therefore, Obama should follow through with his promise to end don't ask don't tell.

---References---

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://gaylife.about.com...
[3] http://www.cnn.com...
[4] http://www.msnbc.msn.com...

Good luck
Debate Round No. 1
CMBlovesdebate

Con

CMBlovesdebate forfeited this round.
Freeman

Pro

Extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
CMBlovesdebate

Con

I accept my opponents position and will gladly offer a rebuttal to his argument with apologies for not responding during Round 2.

We have absolutely no idea whether or not the unit cohesion would be jeopardized or not. The entire formation of the policy was for the safety of homosexuals, obviously because some heterosexuals were uncomfortable with their presence. Such instances represent the feud: Allen R. Schindler was brutally murdered, to the point that he was barely identifiable. He was an American Radioman Petty Officer in the United States Navy and was only 22 years old. Also, Barry Winchell, an infantry soldier in the United States Army, was murdered in 1999 by soldier, Calvin Glover because he was gay.

The above countries clearly don't have the same issues with gays as America does, because we have had two men murdered due to their sexual orientation. The policy requires that homosexuals conceal their sexual orientation-homosexuals know the policy when they sign up. They know the consequences. When signing up for the armed forces, one's sexual orientation is never brought up- if a homosexual chooses to reveal their sexual orientation, then that is their decision to subject themselves to discharge. The policy has protected them and created comfort for "homophobic" heterosexuals. Also, there is no reason for them to reveal their sexual orientation; it is against the armed forces regulations that members can even partake in sexual activity soldier with soldier, and since their sexual orientation is not needed, what is the point of revealing it, if it is going to cause discomfort amongst other soldiers? There is no reason. Since the policy has not failed it's duty, there is no reason to demolish it. Even if a homosexual was discharged because of their sexual orientation, it is also because they were committing a sexual act with another homosexual soldier- their business outside of the military is not under military jurisdiction.

Regarding my opponents assumption of religion and ignorance.

Religion plays absolutely no aspect in this debate. It will not be negated. Times have changed since the policy was established, but not to the point where the armed forces are ready to reveal the sexual orientations of their soldiers. Homophobia is a disorder, and it *does* exist among many heterosexuals and while many are becoming more accepting of homosexuals, others are not. Since my opponent has recognized that homophobia is a disease that can be cured, key word *can*, does not mean that it has. America breeds many pious church goers who are completely against homosexuality and will never accept it. A hand full of those people join the armed forces and do not want to know the sexuality of their fellow soldiers.

Regarding the military's strength

The United States of America has the strongest military in the world. It has remained this strong with the policy still active. If the policy is banned, and homosexuals are allowed to serve, heterosexuals that are truly uncomfortable with being around homosexuals will not enlist, essentially depleting potential soldiers. This might be ignorance, but those who have strong faith in their religion will not surround themselves by homosexuals. Sodomy began with soldiers in the Bible, and many religious people don't want anything to do with it.

Civilians don't walk around asking what someone's sexual orientation is, and there is no reason for them to do it in the army either. This issue is just another social right being fought for, when really, our freedom is more important, and if a homosexual truly wants to serve their country, keeping their sexual orientation a secret is a small price- the best thing is to keep the policy active and let soldiers assume that their sexual orientations are equal regardless of what they really are so that they can perform their duties as called upon.

References:
http://wikipedia.org...
http://www.defenselink.mil...
Personal interview with a Ret. Staff Sergeant who wishes to remain anonymous (returned from Iraq spring '09)
Freeman

Pro

Let me begin by thanking CMBlovesdebate for posting an argument in her last round. I fell confident that I understand your position and I will try my best to represent it faithfully. I'm not too sure what you wanted me to see in your following references, (http://wikipedia.org...) (http://www.defenselink.mil...), but I am sure they had useful information of some sort.

*Case Pro: Rebuttals*

1A. Unit Cohesion

"We have absolutely no idea whether or not the unit cohesion would be jeopardized or not."

If nearly 30 of the world's most advanced countries can allow gays to openly serve then our military should be just fine if don't ask don't tell is removed. Those countries used to be much more hostile towards gays than they are now, and there is no reason to think that our country would not follow that same trend.

"America breeds many pious church goers who are completely against homosexuality and will never accept it. A hand full of those people join the armed forces and do not want to know the sexuality of their fellow soldiers."

Laws cannot be created so that they conform to the deeply held prejudices of a certain group of people. Unlike some nations, the United States has a separation of church and state. [1] Therefore, your argument can be dismissed on its own merits. I ask my opponent, "How would you like to be kicked out of your job or school for being a Moderate?" [2] After all, there is no reason for you to tell the rest of us about your political views. And there are certainly many people in our country that find your views on politics to be quite distasteful.

1B. Regarding the safety of gay military personnel

"The policy has protected them and created comfort for "homophobic" heterosexuals."

Actually, you are quite wrong. This policy only seeks to further the deep rooted prejudices people hold against gays. Mutual understanding is only achieved when disparate groups of people interact with each other. If more straight people knew someone that was gay then they would be statistically less likely to hold prejudices and perform hate crimes against gays. Don't ask don't tell encourages ignorance and thus helps promote intolerance against gays. Your position on these matters is discriminatory and your reasoning is circular.

*Case Pro*

Contention 1: Don't ask don't tell is harmful to the armed forces and therefore to the nation.

My opponent has ignored the central claims of my argument and has thus conceded this point in my favor. The most she has to say is that heterosexuals would be made uncomfortable by openly gay soldiers. It should therefore be obvious that there my opponent's case does not rest on any kind of a rational basis whatsoever.

========
Conclusion
========

My opponent has dropped my central argument and has built her own position on nothing more than overtly fallacious arguments. Banning gays from serving in the military helps ensure that homophobia is perpetuated in our society and it weakens our nation's military standing. Don't ask don't tell is unnecessary, discriminatory, and harmful. Therefore, I encourage everyone to stand with me in giving this resolution the overwhelming endorsement that it rightfully deserves. (Vote Pro)

---References---

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Freeman 7 years ago
Freeman
I just got vote bombed by 14 points. Could someone please help me.
Posted by thereal_yeti 7 years ago
thereal_yeti
Don't ask don't tell should be a clear violation of the first amendment..

ALSO, if it is REALLY for the safety of the homosexuals, maybe the policy should be "Don't ask"...

If homosexuals want to take the risk, and put themselves in danger that should be up to them..
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