The Instigator
attrition
Pro (for)
Winning
33 Points
The Contender
flyingtuna420
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

Obama over Clinton as the Democratic party's nomination

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/2/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,557 times Debate No: 2376
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (14)

 

attrition

Pro

I think Barack Obama would be the better choice for the president of the United states over Hilary Clinton.

I would like to debate with a Hilary Clinton supporter. I hope this can be positive. I think neither one of us want to disparage the other's candidate too much, lest the opponents pick win the nomination, and we would have to show support to that individual candidate. We are both on the ABAR( Anyone but a Republican) campaign. Let's say we agree on the following things based on the candidate's actions:

1.Does not want to stay in Iraq any more than we have to. Steady withdrawal, until very little to no troops remain. Clinton voted for the original authorization for the war, Obama spoke out against it.

2.Health care is a priority. Clinton mandates universal coverage. Obama does not mandate except in the case of children. Obama prefers to lower costs based on people's income and give them an option to buy it or not.

3.Education should be a priority. Don't know of much of a major difference here.

4.Either one would be FAR superior to any Republican.

Things I don't like about Hilary:

1. Symbolic of the notion of dynasties in the White House. That doesn't seem patriotic. Since 1981 a Bush or a Clinton has been in the White house. So if Hilary is elected, and assuming she gets eight years, be will have had two families in the White house for 35 years. What next Jeb? Who then, freak n' Chelsea!! Im getting dizzy!!

2. Ultra-Polarizing figure. Decent Senator, from what it seems. But many Democrats love her and many, many Republicans HATE her. I mean, it's a little crazy. They get all red in the face whenever anyone mentions her. A bit obsessive. So right there you have another dividing line the center of the country. Dems vs. Republicans.!! Fight to the finish!! Divider vs. Obama's coalition building philosophy.

3. Uses the matter of her experience as the ultimate litmus test for a president. ALL the time. Years and years of political experiences by Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Karl Rove, their dullard puppet, ol' GW himself, and the rest, have helped put us where this country is at today. It doesn't sell me enough.

4. Uses Bill too much. Essentially a 3rd Bill Clinton term. Which I find to be bordering on unconstitutional.

5. Win at any cost republican like tactics. Old politics. Taking quotes out of context, attacks on character that are done by implication, swiftboating. (This is a little low I think)

6. Status quo. No real change. Like I said, up to 35 years or more of two families.

Obama Pros:

1. Truly dramatic figure to represent a new face, and a new direction of the U.S. to the rest of the world and so importantly to it's own citizens.

2. Republicans can't get him on originally supporting the Iraq war ala John Kerry. Hillary can't do that.

3. Cross-over attraction. Even my extremely religious conservative 68 year old mom and my cousin who always votes republican likes Obama. That says a lot to me. He can reach across these artificial barriers to real progress we have in our society. The hardcore extremists on both sides, put up these barriers between the people our country. The rich get richer, the poor struggle and still get poorer. Clinton's government, as much as I would prefer over a republican administration, we find it harder to get true progress done due to her divisive qualities.

4. Wisdom, honesty, sincerity are stronger than experience. The president provides direction, leadership, vision and the ability to get people to work with him. He can help the people get their collective voice back. Clinton is lucky to have been a U.S. Senator longer than Obama. Do you not think that given time, Obama would have at least if not more accomplishments than Hilary. He will be able to get more done as President and lead this country to a better path and represent a 180 from Bush doctrines. Clinton is still somewhat of a hawk on foreign policy. We would have a 90 degree turn from Bush, not good enough for me or this country.

5. I would be amazed to see a man of color as president and what that represents to the people of a mixed society like ours and to the rest of the world. A woman is a close second on this one. Sorry. Less than 40 years ago, black people couldn't go to the same schools as white people in this country. This is an outstanding sentiment to show how far we have come in the majority of this country.

So let's start there.
flyingtuna420

Con

Let me start off by saying I like obama I really do. But he is simply not tried and tested like clinton was. and whether people count it or not her years as first lady do count as political experiance.

Obama on the other hand can win by losing. He's still young, and he has alot to give. but I think he needs to season more. He is idealistic.

Obama took Clitons experiance in office and baisicly hung it around her neck like a chain saying that she can not bring change while being tied to the political game. However people forget, politics is a game. and it's one that needs to be played, and played well. Obama does not yet know, or simply refuses to learn how to play it. Clinton knows how to play,she knows the rules and also knows how to work it to the advantage fo the country.

These are trying times, and change is needed, but also realism is needed, we need a good political player. Clinton is it.
Debate Round No. 1
attrition

Pro

I have given you reasons why I think political experience isn't everything. Abraham Lincoln was inexperienced politically when he was elected. Most people would consider him one of our greatest presidents. So to not for Barack Obama because he is less experienced than Hilary, should not be the ultimate test to her candidacy.

To quote myself:

"3. Uses the matter of her experience as the ultimate litmus test for a president. ALL the time. Years and years of political experiences by Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Karl Rove, their dullard puppet, ol' GW himself, and the rest, have helped put us where this country is today. It doesn't sell me enough."

Shouldn't elect-ability play a VERY high road in this election? We certainly can't afford to have another republican in the White House again. You haven't discussed or refute that argument either.

Please don't agree to a debate if you not even going to think about your arguments. I would like a reason why Clinton is better. In other words, imagine you are trying to convince me to vote for Clinton. Think of me as someone that won't vote on election day because Clinton is the nominee, I don't like the other guy, and I can't bring myself to cast a vote for her.

No candidate brings more enthusiasm from his supporters than Barack Obama. Former Clinton supporters will not hate voting for Barack. Barack supporters will be less inclined to vote for Clinton because of Obama's broad ranging support. His republican and independent support will go to McCain or Romney, especially McCain. He would have the best chance of beating Clinton, in fact that theoretical contest polls with McCain in the lead.
flyingtuna420

Con

flyingtuna420 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
attrition

Pro

This is the second time I have posted this argument and the one who takes the debate makes one weak argument and then forfeits the next round. I am so annoyed. I wonder if all of Clinton's supporters have such tacit support for her. If you are going to take a debate, please take it seriously and finish it even if you are losing. I will repost this debate (for the third time) in hopes of getting a real conclusion and maybe a true answer to why Hillary Clinto should be our next president.
flyingtuna420

Con

flyingtuna420 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by trayhayes 9 years ago
trayhayes
Hillary Clinton gives the Republicans the best chance to win if she's nominated. There is a wave of change happening right now, Obama is a JFK-RFK type candidate and whether you like him or not, major history is being made.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
Hillary might never accept it, but the fact remains that over 40% of the country is already committed to not voting for her. The same isn't true for Obama. Obama has such a movement in the country, and is so universally liked, that most any attack on him will backfire. Not to mention, talk of the primary process dividing the party is ridiculous. Dems are more energized than ever to take back the white house. Turnout numbers verify that. Regardless of who the nominee is, Dems will back them. The only way the republican base coalesces around McCain is if Hillary is the nominee. Thus, Obama would keep the republican base fractious while taking much of McCain's core support among independents. McCain wouldn't stand a chance against Obama. He wins against Clinton.
Posted by mynameisjonas 9 years ago
mynameisjonas
Boo yeah. Yoo beah. Uns Uns Uns Uns
Posted by mynameisjonas 9 years ago
mynameisjonas
Pro wins on better arguments and on the conceding of Con.
Posted by mmadderom 9 years ago
mmadderom
"Hillary would still make a great VP candidate, but Obama needs to be at the head of it."

Hillary would NEVER accept a VP bid. Obama might. A Hillary-Obama ticket probably wins in November. Short of that, the Dems aren't likely to win the White House.
Posted by mindjob 9 years ago
mindjob
I love the Clintons. Having them back the white house would be almost orgasmic for me. But electability has got to be the most important factor. McCain getting elected would just mean another term of the same Bush crap. Coming from campaigning, I know that normally, a person becomes unelectable once their unfavorable ratings reach about 30%. People who like you might not vote for you, but people who don't like you definitely won't vote for you. Strong candidates can overcome this, but it's highly unlikely. Hillary's unfavorable rates are between 40-45%, an incredible amount. Republicans are incredibly ridiculous in their hatred for the Clintons, but it is what it is. We need to take advantage of the republicans' dislike of McCain by nominating Obama since his nomination won't cause the republicans to unite against him. Hillary would still make a great VP candidate, but Obama needs to be at the head of it.
Posted by trayhayes 9 years ago
trayhayes
I would give the first round to the Pro side of this debate. Very articulate and accurate.
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Vote Placed by Vi_Veri 9 years ago
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