The Instigator
giraffelover
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

Obama used IRS to target conservatives

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/23/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,315 times Debate No: 34982
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (11)
Votes (3)

 

giraffelover

Pro

Obama used IRS to target conservatives. I will argue Pro, my opponent will argue Con.
1st round= Acceptance
2nd round= Arguments
3rd round= Rebuttals
4th round= Final statements
Debate Round No. 1
giraffelover

Pro

My belief that Obama is behind the IRS scandal is based on the fact that he's been doing his best to avoid answering questions.
http://www.cbsnews.com...

He's also hiding his college records, which is his right but it contradicts his claim to be a transparent president.
We never would have found out about this scandal if Snowden didn't fess up. I think these documents were classified so people wouldn't know they were being targeted.

(Snowden opens a bag, releasing a cat)
imabench

Con

First off: The one source you gave says absolutely nothing about Obama doing his best to avoid questions, and I know that because the word 'Obama' doesnt even appear anywhere in the article

Secondly: There is no evidence that actually shows that the IRS was directed by the White House to target the Tea Party, in fact most evidence suggests that Obama had nothing to do with the scandal:

http://www.forbes.com...
http://www.rawstory.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://www.motherjones.com...
http://www.businessinsider.com...

"He's also hiding his college records, which is his right but it contradicts his claim to be a transparent president."

That doesnt have anything at all to do with the debate though....

"We never would have found out about this scandal if Snowden didn't fess up. I think these documents were classified so people wouldn't know they were being targeted. (Snowden opens a bag, releasing a cat)"

Jesus Christ...... Snowden had nothing to do with the IRS scandal genious, Snowden revealed that the NSA was spying on tons of people for no reason at all, not that the IRS targeted tea party groups.

The fact is there simply isnt evidence suggesting that Obama used the IRS to target Tea Party groups. Its the IRS's job to review and decide for tax-exempt status for political organizations such as the Tea Party, and while they had that right they completely overstepped their authority on what questions they could ask about the organizations....

Bottom Line: This isnt an Obama scandal, it is purely an IRS scandal.
Debate Round No. 2
giraffelover

Pro

How's THIS for a contrast to conservatives waiting over a year for tax-exempt status?
http://www.inquisitr.com...

I bet it's because he's related to Obama and agrees with the white house.
More Americans SUSPECT the White House, however I don't know if the claim is provable.

http://www.inquisitr.com...
I believe it's true (hence the debate), but I'm not 100% sure.

I know I didn't refute any claims, so all this to say I forfeit this round. I don't change my view that Obama targeted conservatives, though.
imabench

Con

"How's THIS for a contrast to conservatives waiting over a year for tax-exempt status?"

1) Theres a difference between making a charity and applying for tax-exempt status

2) 1 month isnt that far from the normal amount of time it takes for a charity to be approved by the IRS
http://www.501c3.org...

"More Americans SUSPECT the White House, however I don't know if the claim is provable."

Its because it isnt provable, since its false.

"I know I didn't refute any claims, so all this to say I forfeit this round."

Works for me

"I don't change my view that Obama targeted conservatives, though."

So in the face of overwhelming evidence showing that Obama didnt have anything to do with the IRS targeting Tea Party groups, you still are going to cling to your beliefs?

Theres a difference between being loyal to your party and being stubborn....

Debate Round No. 3
giraffelover

Pro

No, I'm 75% sure Obama DID use IRS to target conservatives. As for closing arguments, I think Obama IS guilty and is hiding the evidence. Sound paranoid? It might also be paranoid to say he's guilty of the Benghazi cover-up AND taking phone records without probable cause, but BOTH are true. I'm betting most people will vote for Con, which is fine. I didn't really prove his guilt. HOWEVER, ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE. Obama may have destroyed the records linking him to the IRS scandal.
imabench

Con

"No, I'm 75% sure Obama DID use IRS to target conservatives."

But that 75% is based on no actual evidence and instead is based entirely off of hatred for Obama.

"I think Obama IS guilty and is hiding the evidence. Sound paranoid? "

Yeah, because you believe in something that there isnt a single shard of evidence to prove is the case.

"It might also be paranoid to say he's guilty of the Benghazi cover-up AND taking phone records without probable cause, but BOTH are true"

The hearings for Benghazi have been going on for almost a year now and there is also no evidence of any kind of cover up. Also Obama didnt take phone records without probable cause, thats the NSA.

Do you understand anything about how government even works or do you just feed on whatever Fox News feeds you?

"HOWEVER, ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE"

It kind of is.... If theres no evidence suggesting he did something wrong then 9 out of 10 times he actually didnt do anything wrong....

"Obama may have destroyed the records linking him to the IRS scandal."

Ok now youre just being a conspiracy theorist.
Debate Round No. 4
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Guy_D 3 years ago
Guy_D
Regarding the IRS scandal...There will not be a "smoking gun that points to Obama. His drones inherently understand what the orders are.
Posted by giraffelover 3 years ago
giraffelover
Actually, I think you are of the opinion that ANYONE who disagrees with you is an idiot. If that's the case, I'll gladly stand for what I believe rather than kiss up to you.
Posted by Bullish 3 years ago
Bullish
It's also Obama's fault that you are an *what bench called you*. It's interesting that some conservatives are attributing god-like qualities to Obama.. That's heresy.
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
The debate is currently structured to argue if Obama does have the right to use the IRS to target conservatives, not whether or not he DID use the IRS to target conservatives....

Change it to that and I'll happily accept
Posted by giraffelover 3 years ago
giraffelover
Then you want to accept the debate if you feel your chances are so high?
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
Oh I get it now..... You're an idiot
Posted by giraffelover 3 years ago
giraffelover
He's the head of the government, including the IRS, so it IS his fault, whether he admits it or not.
Plus there's the suspicious fact that he's seen the other person in charge of he IRS at LEAST every month since election (Obama's been in office for 60 months). He can justify a few visits to the White House by the Easter Egg hunt, but there's still over 100 visits that COULDN'T have been for the Easter Egg hunt. As for your claim that IRS employees were involved, true. However, Obama's not exactly the type of guy to take responsibility for his actions. He STILL blames the bad economy on Bush rather than his virtually unlimited unemployment benefits.
Posted by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
He admitted the IRS did. Can you not read? Like, seriously. It's the HEADLINE: "Obama Finally Acknowledges IRS Did In Fact Target Conservative Groups"

He did not admit HE chose the targeting. In fact, the statement from him says pretty much the exact opposite, and lays the blame squarely on "some of [the IRS's] employees".
Posted by giraffelover 3 years ago
giraffelover
Obama admitted he was targeting conservatives.
http://townhall.com...

How is Obama related to water, aside from the fact that his body is more than 70% water?
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
imabench
This debate depends on whether or not Obama actually tried to get the IRS to target conservatives... And to claim that he did is complete bullsh*t.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by blue_charles 3 years ago
blue_charles
giraffeloverimabenchTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con kinda smashed Pro's arguments into the ground.
Vote Placed by Guy_D 3 years ago
Guy_D
giraffeloverimabenchTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro fell FARR short with respect to BOP. Number one: Pro's position lacked historic reference, outlining Obombers (Chicago Style Politics) day's holding office in Illinois, and bringing that shite to DC... as if DC wasn't a sh!t hole already. Number two: The investigation isn't over! Pro's effort in this debate was simply awful.
Vote Placed by voxprojectus 3 years ago
voxprojectus
giraffeloverimabenchTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro, you got destroyed. That your whole argument was predicated on your feelings and "75% sureness" was not convincing. You need to pull in and focus on what you can prove in a debate like this.