The Instigator
rougeagent21
Con (against)
Winning
29 Points
The Contender
nassif.nicholas
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points

Obama's Stimulus Bill Will Succeed

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
rougeagent21
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/26/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,987 times Debate No: 7114
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (6)

 

rougeagent21

Con

I stand in negation. As my opponent is PRO, I will allow him to open. You must prove how the bill WILL succeed.
nassif.nicholas

Pro

The haggling between Democrats and Republicans is over, as President Barack Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's nearly $800 billion "stimulus" program becomes law, and the cash works its way into the economy. But the burning question is, will it work? Will this "stimulus" bill stimulate the economy?

We have heard endlessly from pundits on both sides of the aisle, from folks who call themselves economists, and from politicians of every stripe about the efficacy of this package. But what do business leaders think? What do people in the capital business think? And most important, what do the markets think?

As a person who deals with capital every day, who works with and funds entrepreneurs for a living, and who knows the nuts and bolts of job and wealth creation, I believe this program is nothing less than a rip-off of US taxpayers, and will not work. Indeed, it looks like 25 years of government expansion jammed into one bill and sold as stimulus.

This stimulus package is short on incentives to get consumers spending again and long on social goals that won't stimulate economic activity. It is totally unfocused and spreads a lot of money around on nickel-and-dime programs that will have little lasting impact on our economy.

As a capitalist and entrepreneur, I would have preferred to see a concentration of tax incentives aimed at the purchase of housing and autos, and tax cuts for small business and capital, rather than the current plan, which emphasizes bolstering federal and state welfare programs. The reality is that the millions of jobs Obama's stimulus supposedly creates are government jobs. But what happens when those jobs are completed? Is everyone laid off again? Does Obama pass another stimulus bill?

The theory is that the stimulus will bring back everyone's confidence and those of us who are in the business of creating jobs and wealth will be inspired to hire and grow. But why not take a poll of entrepreneurs and folks who make it their business to create jobs and ask them what would spur their confidence? Or better still, why not study the turnaround economies of Ireland, Spain, India, Brazil, Germany and the US during previous recessions?

The study would clearly show that the only successful way to pull a country out of an economic recession is to put the money back into the hands of the people, not by the government taking $1 trillion out of the national economy and distributing it as it sees fit. It is contradictory to almost every historical precedence for economic growth. If you want to see small businesses grow, lower taxes and give those businesses inventives to hire. If you want to see capital flow into the markets, lower capital gains taxes - or even suspend them. And suspend them for a decade! That is the opinion of nearly every businessman and entrepreneur I know.

But what about the markets? How have they reacted to this nearly $800 billion stimulus bill? Stocks ended lower again last week, pushing the Dow Jones industrial average to its lowest close since last November. Broader stock indicators also fell. The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell, the Nasdaq composite index decreased, and The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell, too. Bond prices declined as well.

In short, the markets haven't been stimulated by Obama's nearly $800 billion stimulus bill! They have continued to pull back, leery of a national government that wants to limit free-market growth while increasing regulation and taxes.

Like so many businessmen I know, I am sure this stimulus program will only delay the inevitable reckoning day for the vast majority of the people in the United States.

The core problem, and what put the US into this regrettable situation, is the refusal by far too many Americans to live within our means, and far too may companies and institutions to do the same. This bill merely postpones the inevitable consequence of a nation living far beyond its means for far too long.

And that's not even taking into account irresponsible government spending. The federal government alone is now borrowing at an annual rate of well over $2 trillion. State and local governments across the US are engaged in their own borrowing sprees. This bill rewards the state and local governments for their poor fiscal stewardship, turning them into dependant client states to the federal mother ship of socialism.

Very simple math shows that regardless of how much we raise taxes in the future; there is no realistic way for the US to ever pay off this debt. Hyperinflation is the only answer to fiscal and monetary policies currently being conducted.

The truth is that the president and Congress could have created economic stimulus by across-the-board tax cuts for all Americans, and tax incentives for businesses to hire new workers and use their capital for new purchases - instead of hundreds of billions of dollars to bolster federal and state welfare programs. They chose to expand government and increase the people's reliance on it, while the private sector, which pays the bill, is shrinking.

Former House majority leader Tom DeLay put it best when he said Obama's program is "just welfare checks that are called tax cuts." I couldn't agree more.
Debate Round No. 1
rougeagent21

Con

Well, my opponent has supported my case completely. He is in fact negating the resolution. Because of this I feel no need to attack his case, or to even present my own. He pretty much covered it!
nassif.nicholas

Pro

nassif.nicholas forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
rougeagent21

Con

Again, my side is completely upheld. Vote CON!
nassif.nicholas

Pro

The haggling between Democrats and Republicans is over, as U.S. President Barack Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's nearly $800 billion "stimulus" program becomes law, and the cash works its way into the economy. But the burning question is: Will it work? Will this "stimulus" bill stimulate the economy?
We have heard endlessly from pundits on both sides of the aisle, from folks who call themselves economists, and from politicians of every stripe about the efficacy of this package. But what do business leaders think? What do people in the capital business think? And most important, what do the markets think?

As a person who deals with capital every day, who works with and funds entrepreneurs for a living, and who knows the nuts and bolts of job and wealth creation, I believe that this program is nothing less than a rip-off of U.S. taxpayers, and will not work. Indeed, it looks like 25 years of government expansion jammed into one bill and sold as "stimulus."

This stimulus package is short on incentives to get consumers spending again and long on social goals that won't stimulate economic activity. It is totally unfocused and spreads a lot of money around on nickel-and-dime programs that will have little lasting impact on our economy.

As a capitalist and entrepreneur, I would have preferred to see a concentration of tax incentives aimed at the purchase of housing and autos, and tax cuts for small business and capital, rather than the current plan, which emphasizes bolstering federal and state welfare programs. The reality is that the millions of jobs President Obama's "stimulus" supposedly creates are government jobs. But what happens when those jobs are completed? Is everyone laid off again? Does Obama pass another "stimulus" bill?

The theory is that the "stimulus" will bring back everyone's confidence and those of us who are in the business of creating jobs and wealth will be inspired to hire and grow. But why not take a poll of entrepreneurs and folks who make it their business to create jobs and ask them what would spur their confidence? Or better still, why not study the turnaround economies of Ireland, Spain, India, Brazil, Germany and the United States during previous recessions?

The study would clearly show that the only successful way to pull a country out of an economic recession is to put the money back into the hands of the people, not by the government taking $1 trillion out of the national economy and distributing it as it sees fit. It is contradictory to almost every historical precedence for economic growth. If you want to see small businesses grow, lower taxes and incentivize those businesses to hire. If you want to see capital flow into the markets, lower capital gains taxes – or even suspend them. And suspend them for a decade! That is the opinion of nearly every businessman and entrepreneur I know.

But what about the markets? How have they reacted to this nearly $800 billion "stimulus" bill? Stocks ended lower again last week, pushing the Dow Jones industrial average to its lowest close since last November. Broader stock indicators also fell. The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell, the Nasdaq composite index decreased, and The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell, too. Bond prices declined as well.

In short, the markets haven't been stimulated by Obama's nearly $800 billion "stimulus" bill! They have continued to pull back, leery of a national government that wants to limit free-market growth while increasing regulation and taxes.

Like so many businessmen I know, I am sure this "stimulus" program will only delay the inevitable reckoning day for the vast majority of the people in the United States. The core problem, and what put the U.S. into this regrettable situation, is the refusal by far too many Americans to live within our means, and far too many companies and institutions to do the same. This bill merely postpones the inevitable consequence of a nation living far beyond its means for far too long.

And that's not even taking into account irresponsible government spending. The federal government alone is now borrowing at an annual rate of well over $2 trillion. State and local governments across the United States are engaged in their own borrowing sprees. This bill rewards the state and local governments for their poor fiscal stewardship, turning them into dependent client states to the federal mother ship of socialism.

Very simple math shows that regardless of how much we raise taxes in the future; there is no realistic way for the United States to ever pay off this debt. Hyperinflation is the only answer to fiscal and monetary policies currently being conducted.

The truth is that the president and Congress could have created economic stimulus by across-the-board tax cuts for all Americans, and tax incentives for businesses to hire new workers and use their capital for new purchases — instead of hundreds of billions of dollars to bolster federal and state welfare programs. They chose to expand government and increase the people's reliance on it, while the private sector, which pays the bill, is shrinking.

Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay put it best when he said Obama's program is "just welfare checks that are called tax cuts." I couldn't agree more.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
Well, compared to some people, that wasn't crap. But, I can see your side of it. I'll shut up now.
Posted by resolutionsmasher 8 years ago
resolutionsmasher
Just be polite about it. There are abuse laws even regarding the internet. Also this site has certain bylaws regarding conduct, so take your crap elsewhere
Posted by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
What the heck, he argued my side! He posted the same argument twice!
Posted by Nail_Bat 8 years ago
Nail_Bat
Jeeze, sorry buddy, didn't mean to hit a nerve. But this is The Internet, the place for people to come and speak their mind regardless of whether or not anyone wanted to know.
Posted by resolutionsmasher 8 years ago
resolutionsmasher
Lay off Nail Bat & Fresnoinvasion. The guy posted the debate and he can run it how he frikin' pleases. And if you don't want to debate it then shut your ever lovin' mouths up. If rougeagent21 doesn't understand economics well then I'll help him. Me and my entire class of American economic studies. Are you man enough? Or are you not? Now that is the question.
Posted by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
Are you willing to take a guess?
Posted by Nail_Bat 8 years ago
Nail_Bat
That all depends on whether you understand economics as well as you understand evolution.
Posted by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
fres-thats for the pro side.
nailbat-tell ya what, i challenge you to this debate, i take pro of "obama's stimulus bill will fail" and i argue first. hows that? you man enough?
Posted by Nail_Bat 8 years ago
Nail_Bat
If you were a real man, you'd make this debate "Obama's Stimulus Bill Will Fail" and take the PRO side.
Posted by fresnoinvasion 8 years ago
fresnoinvasion
rougeagent21- You are the most annoying debater there is. Make an argument for once yea?
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by TFranklin62 8 years ago
TFranklin62
rougeagent21nassif.nicholasTied
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Vote Placed by Riley09 8 years ago
Riley09
rougeagent21nassif.nicholasTied
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Vote Placed by resolutionsmasher 8 years ago
resolutionsmasher
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Vote Placed by Epicism 8 years ago
Epicism
rougeagent21nassif.nicholasTied
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Vote Placed by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
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Vote Placed by nassif.nicholas 8 years ago
nassif.nicholas
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