The Instigator
Pro (for)
28 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

On Balance Bluesteel is the best bachelor on DDO

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 7/10/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 14,256 times Debate No: 58809
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (57)
Votes (5)




This is pretty simple and a fun troll/serious debate

Resolution - On balance bluesteel is the best bachelor on DDO

This is a semi team debate, as myself and aaron will both work on this together.

Whoever takes it is allowed to pick one person to debate this with if they so chose.

They will start this in round 1 and declare the person of their choice (they must pick a person), and define why that person is a better bachelor than bluesteel

In the last round they shall type simply "no round as agreed upon", failure to type anything other than this will result in a full 7 point drop of the debate.

Lets have fun


I choose progdem, and (for now) will be doing this debate by myself. Now, onto my arguments.

One clear advantage prog has over bluesteel is his aura of mysteriousness. Unlike bluesteel, who regularly shows off his face in hangouts, prog's was only visible in one hangout for a few seconds, with only two or three catching a glimpse of it. All witnesses have spoken only positive of it, which gives a sense of excitement leading up to any event with him, and satisfaction when said event takes place.

Prog is a guy who says what's on his mind, and no matter how extreme or wrong his opinions may seem, he always tells what he honestly thinks. Now, who would you rather trust? The honest progressive democratic atheist man, or the lying progressive republican white Christian engaged Scientologist woman whose favorite activities are, "Reading the Bible, ultimate frisbee, picketing the funerals of dead soldiers, baking cookies"[1].

Not only is bluesteel sexually active, but into some pretty weird stuff [2, 3]. Prog is known for being abstinent, which is great not only for him, but future potential life partners, as virgins are almost always expressed as the most desirable potential partners [4].

4. Blade-of-truth
Debate Round No. 1


So to start off this debate, we must first examine what constitutes oneself as a good bachelor. First they must be single, second they must be desirable, and third they must possess traits that appeal to most women. This obviously can vary but let’s start from there.

C1) Bluesteel is Single

Meaning he is a bachelor, this is just a statement that affirms part of the resolution. To be a bachelor, one must be single.

(p1) To be a bachelor one must be single
(p2) Bluesteel is single
(c) Bluesteel is a bachelor

That was just for clarification and shall largely remain unrefuted

C2) Bluesteel is desirable

This is probably one of the most accurate statements that will be presented in this debate. Bluesteel is always listed in the Top 5 most sexy guys on DDO list by both girls and guys alike. In random questionnaires I have conducted in google +, forum posts, polls, and messages bluesteel almost always ends up on the top 5 list.

Thett3, myself, and other guys have all dubbed bluesteel as “one of the hottest members on DDO”. Thett3 said bluesteel would be the first person he went gay for. [1]

Also in a private message from DDO user cermank. When asked if whom she thought the 5 hottest guys on DDO was, this was her response

[1] Myself
[2] X
[3] Bluesteel
[4] X
[5] X

Cermank asked me not to reveal the other 3.

She also stated this, and even thett3 made a similar remark.

Cermank - “ "Bluesteel is really hot. I think its because he's got brains behind that effortlessly hot thing he's got going on." [2]

Thett3 - I would go gay for bluesteel if I had too. [1]

Once again we see bluesteel listed. This is a constant repetition we see when we ask this question to girls and guys alike. 5 or 6 people normally pop up (addison, max, thett3, and BOT) also often being in the top 5 as well. What we can learn from this, is that almost anyone that answers this question always puts bluesteel on their top 5 hottest guys list.

C3) Bluesteel makes bank

Even before finishing his last semester, bluesteel is already averaging nearly 12k a month on a intern job he currently has. He is dedicated to school and work, and would also be dedicated to a woman. This was confirmed by myself in a google hangout when I told him to show his paystub as a joke. He did it for giggles and he was averaging nearly 6.6k for every 2 weeks he worked.

This breaks down to 3,300 which is ½ of 6,600. Then when multiplied by 52 (number of weaks yearly) we can see he earns nearly 171,600 on a yearly basis (on average).

The average american household, and bear in mind this is household not an individual roughly makes only 50k a year[3]. Bluesteel before even graduating is making 3x the amount of a normal family in america by himself. This also puts him in the top 5 percent of the nation(per income). [4]

C4) Smarter

On DDO we equate brains with elo. This is a solid fact, people less than 2k have downs, and those above 3k are pretty smart. Bluesteel has nearly 6.5k elo. Meaning he is nearly 3 times as smart as prog, via juggles way of measuring intelligence. Add this in with the fact he is about to finish law school. This contention will not fail

C5) Way cooler

Bluesteel has never rage quit the site after someone insulted his beard, nor does he have a beard.

This is a quote from aaron himself

“I’m best friends with you and max, this is proof in itself. Need I say more” [5]

C6) Swag and confidence

This tags on to a prior point. Bluesteel does not quit the sight when drama ensues. He handles drama

Quote from bluesteel

“I don’t run from drama, I eat it “[5]

C7) Knows how to sex up people

Bluesteel has more sexual experience than prog. I mean girls like guys that are virgins, because they think guys that have had sex alot tend to carry a bad rep. This is not always the case

(a) Bluesteel is not a whore
(b) bluesteel has sexual experience

A quote from bluesteel

“ Guys want girls who are virgins because they don't want someone who has been used and abused. Throwing a hot dog down a hallway is no fun. But girls generally don't want guys who are clueless down there. Girls want a guy that can get them off, which requires actually knowing where the clitoris is for starters. A girl is unlikely to be satisfied by a guy who is poking around to find the right hole, goes for 10 seconds before getting overexcited, and then breaks the condom because he put it on wrong, forcing her to panic and go get Plan B (which could cost her $200 because of the Hobby Lobby decision). Does that sound exciting to any of you? You're basically weighing 30 minutes of the best oral sex known to woman versus a guy that will last 10 seconds and doesn't even know what a clit looks like. Easy decision.” [5]

( I’d contest this , because i would put my own orals sex skills above his but eh. Agree to disagree)

He still has talent. When asked what his favorite sexual position was, he stated

The lottus blossum [6]


how is this even a comparsion

I'll offer rebuttals in the following round to keep it fair


[2] Via private message which I asked approval to post
[5] via private message with blueesteel which i asked approval to post


It should be known that Prog himself contributed a lot for this round.

R1) Completely useless contention, prog is single as well. This did nothing to further your point

R2) Mikal states that bluesteel is desirable. This claim bears an exceptionally high burden, as it attempts to establish objectivity: that a person can be objectively, incontrovertibly desirable.

In reality, desirability is subjective: what one person deems as desirable another person may deem detestable. Bluesteel may find Asian girls particularly attractive because he attends Berkeley and, from what I hear, Asian girls are quite stunning. Another person may not. So this hardly advanced PRO's BOP.

He then goes on to offer unverifiable -- bluesteel's a lawyer, so he knows that's Spanish for bullsh1t -- testimony from Cermank and thett3 saying that bluesteel is hot or desirable. Here's the problem, however:

P1) (x) says (y) person is hot
P2) Hotness, contextually, mandates objectivity for PRO's contentions to hold
C1) It does not follow that the testimony of (x) bears out this contention

Not only is the so-called evidence that PRO has provided lack truth value because it's anecdotal -- I cannot, for instance, verify that anyone said this on a google+ hangout or in a forum, and even then people troll -- but I can even attack it further by questioning his sources. Cermank has said that Mikal is hot. That RIGHT THERE discredits her testimony. Why? Because Mikal's questioning style is de-facto duress. On IDGAF, for instance, he would ask his guests who their favorite DDO'ers were. Naturally, largely by virtue of pressure, they would respond with "Mikal". Similarly, when they see they are being asked about bluesteel, or know this will be used in a debate defending/being seen by him, they will answer "bluesteel". This means absolutely nothing, nor is this testimony credible.

As for thett3, he, like bluesteel, is listed as a girl who is "more modest than everyone else." Not to mention, thett has his own relationship problems, so he is HARDLY credible in this area.

PRO's claim to repetition is also equally flawed -- nothing more than an ad populum fallacy. Therefore, we can discard this contention entirely.

R3) How is "making bank" cool? As you make more money, people depend on you more, you're paying for the dinners, your marginal tax rates go up, people look at you differently, money corrupts you, and the next thing you know, you wake up in the middle of interstate NY, naked and confused, feeling as though you just had a cock shoved in your face. Money only destroys. By showing that he makes roughly 300% the median household income, all PRO has shown us is that bluesteel is an evil rich person. This does not bode well for a bachelor.

Not to mention, prog is only 19; bluesteel has had MUCH more time to make "bank" than he has.

R4) ELO does not correlate to intelligence; ELO correlates to how often you debate, how often you snipe, so forth.

Mikal himself has admitted to this. He has said on several occasions that bluesteel and raisor are better debaters than him. But he's OVER 9000! Therefore, by his own word, ELO means nothing.

On top of that, prog's only done on serious debate in months, and he beat Mikal -- making him one of only two people to ever have done so.

It should also be noted that
a. We have poor judges, and
b. Percentile is a poor element of judgement


P1) bluesteel has a higher percentile
P2) Percentile is a poor judge
C1) bluesteel is rated highly by poor judges
P3) The majority of judges on DDO are bad
P4) Bad judges wrongly vote
P5) bluesteel is rated highly by poor judges
C2) bluesteel is wrongly rated highly

R5) Prog didn't "rage quit" because someone insulted his beard. This is an unsubstantiated ad hominem from PRO that should immediately lose his conduct. He's spreading false rumors and tarnishing the character -- and the beard -- of a well-respected member. Let it also be noted that bluesteel failed to put a question mark at the end of his best friends statement. Grammatical errors are not cool.

This contention falls apart.

Also, coolness is subjective, so PRO will have to do better than that to prove coolness.

R6) See R5.

R7) I've already mentioned that bluesteel has some strange fetishes, so "sexing things up" isn't exactly positive.

Now, who would you really want to be with? Prog, the brilliant, yet chaste, prog, or bluesteel, the cousin kissing furry feeling whore?

Now, a few more contentions

C4) Lawyers are arsholes

It is a well-accepted fact that lawyers are complete arsholes.

P1) Lawyers are arsholes
P2) Bluesteel is a lawyer
C1) Therefore, bluesteel is an arshole

C5) Prog is a genius

Prog has an IQ of 153, literally smarter than virtually every member of DDO. Of course he would make a good bachelor.

C6) Prog is younger than bluesteel

Prog still has time under his belt to decide how he would like to live his life -- a free, open soul, no longer held back by the clutches of this God-forsaken site. Bluesteel, however, is a boring, much older lawyer who, as we've discussed, is an arshole.

C7) Beard

Those lucky few that have seen prog were only talking of his beard the next day, for the entire day. Clearly, it is a sight to behold. Now, men don't shave [1], so why is bluesteel's face cleenshaven? It's clear he's either not a real man, or just can't grow a beard. Both options help show that prog is clearly more desirable than bluesteel.

C8) Honesty

I'd like to come back to this contention from R1 and just remind everyone that bluesteel is, in fact, a lawyer.

C9) Prog is actually a bachelor

For my final contention, I'd just like to point out that bluesteel is, indeed engaged [2]. So, either this is true, or everything on his dishonesty I pointed out in R1 is real, and he is not looking for a relationship and making less than 150k a year, destroying two of PRO's previous arguments.

Debate Round No. 2


Going to go into rebuttals, then actually into rebuilding contentions.

R1) Mystery

This is a false claim. I will acknowledge that prog has only shown his face a few times, but the few times he chose to show his face a male member actually took a screenshot of him and passed it around DDO. Chubby face, beard, glasses, anything like that ring a bell? Yeah we have all seen progressive thanks to this persons hobby of collecting pictures of people on google hangouts. So saying his face is a mystery is actually a false statement, because of a guys tireless devotion to stalking people

Also If anyone has mystery behind them, it definitely is not prog. Progressive is one of the most open liberals the site has ever seen and made his beliefs pretty public and straight forward. He has even claimed to be one of the most if not most liberal member on the site.

Bluesteels beliefs are widely unknown. He has taken debates involving conservative topics, liberal topics, and even troll topics like bestially and child pornography. No one knows what he actually believes or why he believes it. We can only imagine. If anything this point weights in favor of bluesteel because 7ths only contention is that we hardly ever have seen progs face, which is false due to this guy spamming the pic around.

R2) Honesty

I mean this is not really a contention. He says prog is honest without giving anything to support the theory. Prog has openly told fibs about he blade of truth scenario and raged with great passion about the issue as well.

Hypothetically let's award this point to seventh for fun. If prog were so straight forward and honest, this defeats seventh's point about being mysterious. Someone that is this open and this truthful about everything would lose the aura of curiosity that surrounds them. He literally defeated his first contention by trying to present this contention this way (which is overly not true in itself as we can see with the BOT situation). So this argument (a) does no stand and is not valid due to the entire issue that has occurred with blade of truth and (b) even if we awarded this point to him, shoots down his (C1).

In addition, 7th's extensive quoting from bluesteel's profile just proves that bluesteel is a funny guy, showing that blue has a much better sense of humor than prog. You can't read bluesteel's profile description for the first time without at least busting a smile. In contrast, prog has not made even one joke on the site ever (I challenge 7th to find one).

R3) Innocence

I mostly have refuted this point with one of my contentions but I will address it briefly. I direct you back to bluesteels quote

" Guys want girls who are virgins because they don't want someone who has been used and abused. Throwing a hot dog down a hallway is no fun. But girls generally don't want guys who are clueless down there. Girls want a guy that can get them off, which requires actually knowing where the clitoris is for starters. A girl is unlikely to be satisfied by a guy who is poking around to find the right hole, goes for 10 seconds before getting overexcited, and then breaks the condom because he put it on wrong, forcing her to panic and go get Plan B (which could cost her $200 because of the Hobby Lobby decision). Does that sound exciting to any of you? You're basically weighing 30 minutes of the best oral sex known to woman versus a guy that will last 10 seconds and doesn't even know what a clit looks like. Easy decision. " [1]

Most girls want a guy that knows how to please her. You don't want a guy that is clueless or has no idea where to put what or what to do. Bluesteel hits gold with this point, almost every women wants a good sexual experience. Actually even from my own experience, nothing makes a girl more annoyed than a guy finishing before he can get her off. On balance girls do not want clueless guys. [2]

R4) Lawyers are azzholes

This is not even a valid syllogism. He would have to establish why lawyers are arzholes. Mindlessly asserting it does not prove anything.

R5) Prog is a genius

Not cited, nor evidence to believe it. Born of God scored a 155 on a Iq test and is regarded as the site clown. Literally this contention proves nothing

R6) Prog is younger

Most girls prefer older guys [6]

R7 +9) = C8 is already refuted

We can see bluesteel is actually a bachelor as he admits above that he is joking on his profile and that people think it's funny.

R8) Most women hate beards [7]

Even on DDO cermank and many other women don' find beards attractive. Seventh would have to prove that a beard makes prog good looking, but has failed to do so.

Now on to rebuilding contentions

RC1) Bachelor

This was not pointless, it has to be established to debate the resolution. We have to show both are single to actually be a bachelor. The purpose of this was to establish that bluesteel is a bachelor and therefore meets the criteria for what is being debated.

RC2) Bluesteel is desirable

Numerous studies have found that beauty is objective[4][5]. For example, studies have found that people prefer more symmetrical faces, faces where the eyes are a certain distance apart (not too far or close), faces where the lips are a certain distance from the eyes (not too far or close). [4,5] Studies show that in women, straight hair, almond shaped eyes, fairer skin, small nostrils, and thin arched eyebrows were more attractive. [4,5] Studies also show that men find women more attractive if they are thinner, have a certain waist-to-hip ratio and leg-to-body ratio, have clear skin (not acne, rashes, blemishes, etc), have a more youthful appearance, have larger eyes, etc. [4,5] "For both men and women, there appear to be universal criteria of attractiveness both within and across cultures and ethnic groups." [4,5]

So attractiveness is objective because it is based on objective criteria. If you poll enough people, most will agree on who is attractive. A poll of two people on DDO is better than a poll of zero people. Prog has provided no evidence that he is not a hideous, hairy man-beast. The burden of proof is on him to prove that he is not so ugly that women would run away from him in fear.

Essentially the premise behind this is that bluesteel is the best bachelor on DDO. To be a good bachelor one must be desirable. Through a majority of polls that I conducted (2 results being posted), bluesteel has always appeared in the top 5 most desirable people on DDO. Since this debate is about who is the best bachelor, it would encompass from that end who is the most desirable. Through polls conducted on DDO (DDO is a criteria of the debate, not outside of DDO) bluesteel often always appears on the top 5 most desirable people list, one in which prog has never shown up on.

RC3) Bluesteel makes bank

People need money to survive. Most women would rather be with a guy who owns his own yacht rather than with a guy who takes her out to dates and tries to pay with food stamps. Studies show that since the recession started, women show a strong preference for men with more money (because times are tough). If Prog could even get a date, he would have to take the girl out to McDonalds. While this might be good if Prog wanted to date fatties, it is generally not desirable. Prog is like the guy in the infamous Putnam porn video (from Berkeley) who hires a hooker and then out of loneliness begs her to come on a date with him at the dining hall. "I can swipe you in," he says. For Valentine's Day, rather than jewelry or flowers, Prog's gift is writing "I love you" on a napkin.

RC4) Smarter

Just because I admitted bluesteel is a better debater, I have never admitted he is smarter. We may be equally smart or he could be smarter but that is a topic for another time. The issue at hand is whether he is smarter than prog. The one thing elo gives us an outline for those that are smart. People below 2 k literally have the mental capacity of a rock. People above 2k get a little smarter, and by 3k you may actually graduate highschool. Bluesteel is at a whopping 6k and top ten on the site, and is always regarded as one of the 3 smartest people on DDO.

bluesteel is smarter than Prog: Besides having a high ELO, bluesteel was also his high school valedictorian, goes to a top 10 law school (where he is top of his class), and was hired at the firm that is considered the top firm in California.

lawyers are evil; women are evil too, so they like evil things


women = money x time
time = money
women = money^2
money = the root of all evil (square root of evil)
women = square root of evil^2
women = evil

Evil things like other evil things. Therefore, women love lawyers.

Prog also did not necessarily beat me. I allowed him to beat me. I could have chosen to have the debate removed, because he drastically misunderstood an agreement that he himself set up which awarded him the win.

RC5) Bluesteel is cooler

This is not an adhom, but a fact. Prog has quit the site 4 times in the past 3 months because he possess the emotional stability of a 10 year old girl. This is provable by the blade of truth situation. I will not list names but even people that know him via my truth box said

he quits to much
cries about to much stuff
is wrong about the bot situation

All in all people on DDO do consider bluesteel cooler


On balance bluesteel is in fact the best bachelor on DDO , especially when compared to prog.

[1] Bluesteel


no round as agreed upon
Debate Round No. 3
57 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SeventhProfessor 2 years ago
This was a troll debate, bluesteel is actually a girl.
Posted by Shadow-Dragon 2 years ago
Bluesteel is not a girl?
Posted by SeventhProfessor 2 years ago
Romanii, that was funny until the end. We shouldn't be allowed to talk about things like pedophilia, incest, and bestiality on this website. DDO should not be a platform for filth.
Posted by Mikal 2 years ago
That was a good attempt btw lol
Posted by Romanii 2 years ago
I was instructed to start a rage war so we can give this thing more comments.
Here goes...

THE ONLY REASON MIKAL HAS 9000 ELO IS BECAUSE BLUESTEEL WRITES ALL HIS ARGUMENTS FOR HIM, LIKE HE DID IN THIS DEBATE. Bluesteel is a lying, evil, cheating lawyer. Prog is a better debater than Mikal. Airmax is Jifpop. Pedophilia is moral.
Posted by tulle 2 years ago
I feel like this debate was unwinnable by Con.
Posted by Mikal 2 years ago
no idea not sure 0.0
Posted by Romanii 2 years ago
...did your other response get deleted? The "oh cmon romani" one?
Posted by Mikal 2 years ago
was hoping this would get more votes and comments lol
Posted by Mikal 2 years ago
That was not that bad -.-
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: unfortunately Mikal's troll contentions worked out too well for him, and in no way did Con's rational arguments manage to flip them over
Vote Placed by debatability 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Comments.
Vote Placed by Romanii 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: For the most part, Pro and Con seemed to argue past each other, with Pro making trollish contentions, and Con trying to take it seriously. Unfortunately for Con, Pro's troll contentions were freaking hilarious, making me as a reader partial to his style. In addition, the round structure gave Pro a definite advantage of being able to put up rebuttals AND counter-rebuttals, whereas Con only got to put up rebuttals; that allowed Pro to trollishly recover his case from Con's rational objections and leave Con's contentions in shambles, effectively sealing Con's doom. Very funny debate (although some of the personal attacks made on both of the bachelors made me cringe a bit), but a pretty clear win for Pro.
Vote Placed by ESocialBookworm 2 years ago
Who won the debate:--
Reasons for voting decision: RFD here because the character limit is like WTH???!!!
Vote Placed by Jonbonbon 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: I'm gonna give Mikal a small win over 7th. Part of it is due to 7th's loss of conduct points for the language and insulting of the person in question. For the most part, I feel like Mikal was able to back up his claims more often than 7th was. I say it's close because 7th did make me laugh during this debate, which is rare when I read a debate, but I have to vote on it as a debate. Basically, overall Mikal won by backing up his claims in rebuttals and contentions.