The Instigator
Ariesx
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

On Balance, The US Federal Government should continue its funding of the military

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/23/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 754 times Debate No: 87130
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (6)

 

Ariesx

Pro

Round 1-Acceptance, Round 2-Cases, Round 3-Rebuttals, Round 4-Defense
I will be defending the government's decision to fund the Military with between 600 and 800 billion dollars. I believe that our military should be our first priority, while Con tries to prove the exact opposite.
lannan13

Con

I accept my opponent's challenge and I do wish him good luck in this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Ariesx

Pro

Thank you Con for accepting this debate.
Terms: Continue-persist in an activity or process:
Funding-money provided, especially by an organization or government, for a particular purpose.
Military-the armed forces of a country:
In this debate, I will be proving that:
1. America has a lot of threats it faces around the world.
2. Our military is the only way we can keep our dominance around the world which makes the world more stable.
3. Democracy will die if America is not strong.

Threats-If you are an American, you will quickly realize that America faces a lot of threats around the world. We have a lot of threats that are determined to destroy and conquer us. I will list the threats we face.
Hezbollah is a terrorist group that wants to overthrow rival governments in the Middle East to promote Sunni dominance. This would create great stability in the east.

Al-Quada is a terrorist group in Iraq which is dedicated to destroying America, and have put there motivations into conquering Iraq and Afghanistan leaving the two nations unstable.

Hamas is a local terrorist group in Palestine that wants to bring down the Israeli government, and also support the destruction of America.

The Armed Islamic Group in Algeria has dedicated itself to wiping out villages, and ethnic cleansing promoting disorder in these regions.

Boko Haram is also a terrorist group that gained notoriety when kidnapping innocent girls, and subjugating them to rape, slavery, and labor. They also support ISIS's ambition to destroy America.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
This is a list of terrorist organization that threaten innocent people, order, stability, and America. This is just one small argument that helps prove that America should at least have a military that is in the top ten list.

Ethnic Cleansing-One has seen that there are many atrocities in history. 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazi Government. In the 1990s, a similar event happened in where in Bosnia.
"The events in Srebrenica in 1995 included the killing of more than 8,000 Bosniak ("Bosnian Muslim") men and boys, as well as the mass expulsion of another 25,000"30,000 Bosniak civilians, in and around the town of Srebrenica in Bosnia and Herzegovina, committed by units of the Army of the Republika Srpska (VRS) under the command of General Ratko Mladić"https://en.wikipedia.org...
Bill Clinton was the one that authorized the use of our military against Serbia. There campaign was to kill all Muslims in that population.
http://www.christianpost.com...
24,000 people have been killed by ISIS. Multiple victims have either been subjected to slavery, starvation, or sex.
4,400 people have been killed by Al-Quada. These killings were stopped by America when we killed there leader.
http://npsglobal.org...

Hegemony-A lot of people should note that America is a global superpower that protect and leads many nations. America is the leader of the western world, and some might argue the whole world. This power comes with great responsibilities, and if we do not deal with these responsibilities, than no-one will. For example, Russia was trying to reclaim Crimea, and other parts of Ukraine. The only country that really threatened Russia at that point was America. America could have sent many troops into Ukraine causing a war with many unintended consequences. America was a major threat to Russia at that time. This is the reason why we can have sit-downs with Iran, and demand that they stop developing nuclear weapons. This is why a lot of these groups we see here also seem to some as insignificant. Now, I want to also argue the dangers of America's decline as a superpower, because I do not think a lot of people know the consequences of this Decline.
1. The Power Vacuum would be rough with China and Russia trying to dominate other countries.
The present world order""characterized by an unprecedented number of democratic nations; a greater global prosperity, even with the current crisis, than the world has ever known; and a long peace among great powers"reflects American principles and preferences, and was built and preserved by American power in all its political, economic, and military dimensions. If American power declines, this world order will decline with it. It will be replaced by some other kind of order, reflecting the desires and the qualities of other world powers. Or perhaps it will simply collapse, as the European world order collapsed in the first half of the twentieth century. The belief, held by many, that even with diminished American power "the underlying foundations of the liberal international order will survive and thrive," as the political scientist G. John Ikenberry has argued." Our order basically dictates that
A. Capitalism and Democracy are good if you want better relations with the number one superpower.
B. Democracy is also protected by America(Europe and groups in Syria that are pro-democracy)http://editorials.voa.gov...
"America"s support for democracy and human rights goes beyond idealism -- it is a matter of national security."
A Chinese Order would be quite opposite:
A. Authoritarianism and willing to comply with China are good.
B. Authoritarianism is protected by China(North Korea)http://www.cfr.org...
In other words, Democracy will have a dramatic decline in this order with Europe and America seeing authoritarianism as a benefit.
Also, Russia will threaten Europe.
lannan13

Con

I thank my opponent for challenging me to this debate, I do hope that I provide an entertaining debate for everyone here today.

Plan

The United States Federal Government should privatize the US military.

In this debate I shall be defending a position that is not within range that my opponent is defending from the USFG. Under this plan, the USFG will be transfering controll of the military to the private sector. Now note that before you panic, that this doesn't mean these companies are going to be causing Civil War or doing crazy things. This will all be kept under control as I will explain in this debate.

Contention 1: US Debt

We can’t project power from bankruptcy court.- US Senator Rand Paul

Today the US debt is climbing to astronomical numbers. It is $19 trillion and climbing. This disaterous spending causes US inflation, and on top of the US debt this will cause a catastrophe for the US and nations all across the world. [1]

People would have to spend more money, becuase of the inflation and with the devaluing of the dollar we can see that if I spent a dollar on the US maket in the 1960s it would be a whole lot more then if I spent a dollar on the US market today. Economist Gagnon has shown that devaluing of the US dollar caused by the inflation can lead to a massive increase in import prices and since we get many of our things from abroad it will be even harder to get that new XBox video game you were wanting. He also shown that it harms nation's holding our debt, because the value is worthless and makes other nation's not want to purchase from us. The US in turn raises the interest rates, but we cannot afford to raise them any higher. [2]Why's this you may ask? If we observe the graph bellow the US interest rate on debt alone dwarfs most of the US federal budget. The US federal debt is getting so enourmously large that the US is getting to a breaking point in economic trade to were we have to pay off a massive amount of debt or commit financial suicide and raise the interest rates. If we observe the chart bellow we can see the different rates that a our interest rates will cost the US in the future. We have no choice, but cannot decend this slippery slope and further devaluing of the US dollar will harm the American economy by forcing us to lose jobs and rely more on imports causing the the nation to slide into the interest disadvantage furthering harming our nation's economy causing a world wide economic collapse greater than that of the Great Depression and rising the inflation will cause us to go flying off the fiscal cliff. [3]




This debate we have to observe Ceteris Paribus, which means with all other things constant. With the US spending continuing to spiral upwards, we will see the US default in the near future. Though many people will ask, how did we get here. The US is and has been following a famous economic system that was under John Maynard Keynes. He argued that we should spend now and constantly to create jobs and grow the economy. The key issue with this is that Keynessian economics requires deficet spending for much of it's effects to work. Keynes had only meant for this to be during times of economic crisis, but the US Federal Government has gotten into an issue that has destroyed the economy with debt. What was Keynes's solution for debt due to his spending? "In the long run, we're all dead." [4] This means the debt is passed onto our grandchildren and their grandchildren until they collapse under the burden that we have done now. Many people talk about how much of an issue the debt is today and the fact is that it's not getting any better. If we continue this crisis then the US economy will crash. What happens when the US defaults? The markets will crash followed by large economic powers collapse. Japan, a holder of well over $1 trillion of US debt will lose this money which will lead to an economic recession of 20%. [6] Many other countries will follow suit.

During 2015, the US trade decifet was $500 billion. [5] My opponent wants to balloon the current military budget by an additional $300 billion. Though this doesn't seem like much, but this would make the US budget to have just about all of it's budget military spending. The US can't afford their bills with the current budget and continous spending will collapse the US as well as the world economy. [7]

Contention 2: Private Military

Before you jump my case freaking out that our country will collapse, this is simply not the case. This already exists in the status quo, just in a different industry. Since the mid 2000s, the USFG has slowly been cutting down on NASA's funds and has been moving more towards the private sector, Space X. Why is this occuring? This is due to the fact that the private sector is now seeing this as a profitable means where as before there was no incentive to go to space and no profitability to go into space for the private sector. Today, the government is slowly transitioning to Space X as NASA is required to partner a lot with Space X due to their profitability.[8]

Today the Private sector is already making a profit off of the current military as they are contracting with the Pentagon and making Billions off of it. Private companies already fund the most elite military team in the US, the Navy Seals. [9] The Iraq War saw the Private Sector funding a large portion of the Iraq War as they made well over $138 billion in profits. [10] Britian has taken this a step further as they have smaller private militaries which protect many overseas companies. We can see that with much of the influence that currently exists that these companies pratically own these companies.

You are probably asking yourself now, how are we sure they will not go against US interests? The answer is simple. US regulations. The Constitution gives that power to Congress and makes the President Commander-in-Chief. The government has the power to regulate the military and can easily do this as they have before. Whether it was their attacks on the food and drug agency at the turn of the last century or the regulations of air traffic post 9/11, the USFG has been known to thoroughly regulate companies to death so they do what the government allows them to do. There can be many regulations the USFG could institute for this to happen, but I do not have the character limit to go into depth about it in this debate.


Sources
1. (http://www.nationalaffairs.com...)
2. (http://www.ehow.com...)
3. (http://danielamerman.com...)
4. See video for quick guide to Keynesian economics.
5. (http://www.bea.gov...)
6. (http://www.bbc.com...)
7. (https://www.nationalpriorities.org...)
8. (http://spacenews.com...)
9. (http://www.commondreams.org...)
10. (http://www.cnn.com...)
Debate Round No. 2
Ariesx

Pro

Ariesx forfeited this round.
lannan13

Con

All points extended.
Debate Round No. 3
Ariesx

Pro

Conduct to Con.
Defense:
Contention 1: US Debt: "Today the US debt is climbing to astronomical numbers. It is $19 trillion and climbing. This disaterous spending causes US inflation, and on top of the US debt this will cause a catastrophe for the US and nations all across the world. [1]"
The problem with this argument is that the weight of the impact is not as significant as some might think. This is because America owes a lot of there debt to China. China owes debt to us. The question my opponent does not answer is where our debt comes from. Here are the statistics:
"We owe most of the money to ourselves.
"We owe a big chunk of the money " about $6 trillion " to the Federal government. So if there ever were a default (hopefully there won"t be) the government would also be stiffing itself.
"We owe about $5 trillion to other countries.
We owe China 1.3 trillion dollars.
http://www.theblaze.com...
Keep in mind, China also owes us over 1 trillion dollars in debt which makes us even.
My opponent has to answer 4 things in order for this argument to be acceptable.
1. What is the real impact of our debt increasing, because we really just owe debt to ourselves.
2. What is the a timeframe of a crash happening, and how significant would it be?
3. How do you know that we cannot just climb ourselves out of the Depression or Recession? We did this with the Obama Administration.
4. Does the impact of our debt outweigh the constant threats America faces around the world.

Contention 2: Private Military
Private Militaries would bring a lot of unintended consequences if this were possible. First of all, Con would need to answer the following questions:
1. If a private military overpowers or strides away from US interests, how will the US handle it? If you say regulation, this is too simple of answer seeing as how millionaires and billionaires would control politicians.
Also, there are a lot of private military groups that could take advantage of what the US allowed them to do. This could give rise to organized crime, and groups such as The Ku Klux Klan. My opponent would have to be more specific when talking about private militaries.
How can private militaries handle all of these threats:
Al-Quada is a terrorist group in Iraq which is dedicated to destroying America, and have put there motivations into conquering Iraq and Afghanistan leaving the two nations unstable.

Hamas is a local terrorist group in Palestine that wants to bring down the Israeli government, and also support the destruction of America.

The Armed Islamic Group in Algeria has dedicated itself to wiping out villages, and ethnic cleansing promoting disorder in these regions.

Boko Haram is also a terrorist group that gained notoriety when kidnapping innocent girls, and subjugating them to rape, slavery, and labor. They also support ISIS's ambition to destroy America.

I also think that combining the terror groups, and Russian or Chinese ambition will create huge problems for America and Democracy itself.

Thank You Pro for extending the arguments, and the conduct.
lannan13

Con

I thank everyone for their patience as it is now time for this debate to come to a close.

Contention 1: Debt

My opponent brings up that since both countries owe each other then it would cancel out and wouldn't be a big deal. This isn't true as that would only work under public debt, but this is the government owing money in private debt from bond sales. [1]

My opponent brings up things lthat I have already answered. This is the impact as I have shown that this will collapse the global markets into an issue worse than the great depression as well as cause massive inflation and a long list of other harms. All of which can and will happen if we do not change the status quo and under my opponent's plan will be excellerated. Not to mention that I have already given a time frame of when it will occur in 8 years.

We could climb out of a depression as we have done so in the 30s, but that has lead to the rise of Hitler and the Axis powers. Doing so might lead to similar people rising up again. We can also see that these impacts will have a greater threat of what my opponent is bringing up, which I'll explain next contention on why that's not an issue, as well as harm the world more in the long run.

Contention 2: Private Military

My opponent follows the same skep as many other people go through. IF these armies exist then all these terror groups would rise up and we would have anarchy and mass violence. This isn't true. For an example with the US military in the private sector is Boeing. Boeing produces things from US military craft to NASA's rockets. They are a private company and the only US company permitted to due this as all of the others are surpressed from entry into the market. Boeing has been seen, since it's creation, to have not gone out and sold fighter jets to private citizens or attacked the government. All of which are things that my opponent is talking about would have happend here with the US's number one arms manufacturer. [2] WIth this occuring my opponent's issues with this are all negated.

Out of some of the issues my opponent has brought up, the US Federal government does not even currently combat, so these are irrelvant. They would handle these threats as the government would order them to.

With that I thank you and please vote Con!

Sources
1. (https://www.quora.com...)
2. ( http://www.boeing.com...)
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TUF 8 months ago
TUF
Props to FamousDebater for doing the right thing.
Posted by lannan13 8 months ago
lannan13
This is really starting to get irritating.
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: fire_wings// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 points to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: ff

[*Reason for non-removal*] The voter is allowed to solely award conduct based on a forfeit.
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Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: CodingSources// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 points to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture. Round 3 is supposed to be for rebuttals. Conduct to Con.

[*Reason for non-removal*] A forfeit is sufficient reason to award conduct under the current system. As that system has yet to change, and as this vote was cast under that system, it is still sufficient.
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Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: Death23// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 points to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: ff

[*Reason for non-removal*] A forfeit is sufficient reason to award conduct under the current system. As that system has yet to change, and as this vote was cast under that system, it is still sufficient.
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Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: famousdebater// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 points to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for forfeiture. I'll try and vote on arguments points but that depends on how much time I have.

[*Reason for non-removal*] A forfeit is sufficient reason to award conduct under the current system. As that system has yet to change, and as this vote was cast under that system, it is still sufficient.
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Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: dsjpk5// Mod action: NOT Removed<

1 points to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded conduct to Con in round 4.

[*Reason for non-removal*] A forfeit is sufficient reason to award conduct under the current system. As that system has yet to change, and as this vote was cast under that system, it is still sufficient.
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Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
There's room for debate over it, and I'm fine seeing that debate happen. I'm not going to unilaterally change the way votes are moderated. The discussion probably should happen, but it requires community input. I'll be happy to put my own thoughts out there later, but I posted this response early today when I had a spare moment, and I've been thoroughly busy ever since. So you'll have to wait.
Posted by TUF 9 months ago
TUF
That's it? No defense or argument on why it is that way or why it can't change? I mean this is a debating website and you are pretty important and probably have some leeway with airmax. Why allow something you don't agree with? That's like a police officer watching someone do something he dis-agrees with because it is in the boundaries of the law. Difference is, we can actually do something about it. Can you at least make a post in the thread DK created? I have been seeing this problem with the "sufficient" forfeit votes everywhere. It's unfair to the debaters who put time and effort into their arguments to lose because a few lazy people don't want to read anything past the red "forfeit" line, and justifies pushing away the weight of the good RFD's.
Posted by whiteflame 9 months ago
whiteflame
It's part of the standards, TUF. Might not like it, but it's clear enough.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 8 months ago
famousdebater
Ariesxlannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: I won't have time to vote on arguments and I don't think that one ff should warrant me excluding the entire content of the debate. Ergo, my vote is null.
Vote Placed by fire_wings 8 months ago
fire_wings
Ariesxlannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by TUF 9 months ago
TUF
Ariesxlannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vL_WuBzv55YC-Ywv8cPflHCF0CQeJkX7JrsbswRXYmw/edit?usp=sharing
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
Ariesxlannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro conceded conduct to Con in round 4.
Vote Placed by CodingSource 9 months ago
CodingSource
Ariesxlannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture. Round 3 is supposed to be for rebuttals. Conduct to Con.
Vote Placed by Death23 9 months ago
Death23
Ariesxlannan13Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: ff