The Instigator
Valkrin
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
SirCrona
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points

On Balance a Majority of Dota 2 Heroes Have More Advanced Kits Than LoL Champions

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Valkrin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 727 times Debate No: 67899
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

Valkrin

Pro

Hi!
I'm interested in debating this topic.

My argument: A majority of Dota 2 Heroes' kits are more advanced than League of Legends Champions' kits.

On balance - All things considered

I assume entering this debate opponent knows what the two games are.

Opponent is arguing:
A majority of Dota 2 Heroes' kits are NOT more advanced than League of Legends Champions' kits
OR
A majority of League of Legends Champions' kits are more advanced than Dota 2 Heroes' kits (preferably second as it will be easier for opponent based on the style of this debate).

BoP is on Pro (me), unless opponent wishes to do the second form of his argument, in which BoP is shared.

More advanced - Having more complex meaning/requiring a deeper understanding to use to its fullest potential

Rules:
1. No trolling or semantics - results in a loss
2. Forfeit on either side results in a loss for that side
3. Opponent, by agreeing to the debate, agrees to the above definitions
4. (Voters only) Voters MUST have a valid RFD for voting.
5. No arguments in Round 1: Simply acceptance.

Failure to comply in the rules results in a loss.

PROCEDURE:

Opponent will provide five champions, and I shall provide five heroes.
Opponent must show that those heroes are NOT more advanced than their LoL champions OR that their champions have more advanced kits than the Dota 2 heroes I provide.

Gaben voice: Thanks, and have fun.
SirCrona

Con

Thank you, Pro, for giving me the opportunity to debate this topic. I will choose to debate the second prompt, how LoL's sample champions are more advanced. Not for sake of my opinion, but because shared BOP debates are buch more interesting.

If you choose Invoker, I'm most likely royally screwed. Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
Valkrin

Pro

Sorry for the delayed response, I was relatively busy.

Anyway, I thank opponent for this debate, and I hope we can each have a fun time. :)

5v5 Scenario

My opponent and I will both be mentioning 5 heroes/champions that we believe are complex. For the sake of a fun debate I will refrain from mentioning Invoker (though he should still be taken into consideration).

Meepo
Meepo's first three abilities don't seem all that complex. He can place a net (q), he can deal AoE damage (w), and can deal bonus damage with autoattacks (e). However, all this comes into play when his ult (Divided we Stand) is activated.

A clone of Meepo is forged. This Meepo responds to orders from the user and cast all of Meepo's abilities, independent of cooldown on the original one. As well, Meepo can teleport to other Meepos using his W, allowing for a clean escape. In addition, his E stacks with other Meepos, allowing for lots of additional damage/slowing on the target. His Q, with 4 Meepos and max rank, can keep a person trapped indefinitely, redering them unable to move until they die from Meepo's hand (if said Meepo plays it correctly). However, if one Meepo dies, they all die. This means the person must manage all the Meepos properly with unit control, ability control, farming, escaping, and nuking.

Morphling
This champion has his entire kit as a synergy. His Q travels Morphling to a certain location within range, dealing damage. His W varies in effect depending on your stats, but it will always stun and deal damage. The more Agility Morph has, the more damage W does, but the lower stun duration. The more Strength, the damage will be reduced and the stun will last longer. This all goes into play with his E, Morph, which is a toggle ability where he can morph Strength or Agility at the cost of mana. This allows him to be able to deal slightly more damage to kill an enemy, or more health and sustain if need be. This is what caused a huge nerf upon him, as this skill is very broken. And finally, Morphling's ult creates a replication of the target that can deal damage, and within 60 seconds he can switch places with the Replication by reactivating his ultimate. Overall, a champion that requires lots of management with toggleable abilities, swapping with clones, and feciding if a stun or damage is more viable.

Io
Highly positional-based. This is a high-tier support that requires a lot of management with his spirits and tethering to the ally. His Q is a tether that heals the ally and slows any enemies that walk across it. His W is his spirits, which he can move closer to or away from him, allowing for lots of harass at close/longer distances. His E makes Io and his tethered partner's basic attacks deal bonus damage at the cost of Io's health. His ult teleports him and a tethered ally anywhere on the map, but after a few seconds he and the tethered ally return. This hero requires great positioning and needs a skilled player to play him to his fullest potential.

Chen
Chen is commonly referred to as a jungler, as he has an ability that can control units and manipulate them to his advantage. His kit relies a lot on randomness and is mostly support-based. He is capable of healing everyone on the map (except enemies). He also can stun for a random duration and deal damage for a random duration. His bread and butter skill allows him to control and persuade units to fight for his cause. He must properly manage this creature and use it with the proper wielding, because it could give a hefty sum of gold to the enemy if killed.

Shadow Demon
At first, this seems a relatively simple hero. However, with all of the abiities being used, it requires great positioning and micromanagement. His Q banishes the target unit, and if it's an enemy, two illusions are created of the enemy under SD's control. His W makes a random unit in an area take additional damage. This is a chance ability and works best when a single hero is isolated. His E is probably the most infamous - Shadow Poision; a 2 second cooldown that deals initially low damage, but as more stacks of poision rack up, SD can potentially deal lots of damage and completely destroy his lane opponent. His ult is Demonic Purge, which purges the enemy of all positive buffs and slows them by an extreme amount.

Overall, all of these heroes require great positioning to use correctly. Many require micromanagement, but all of them are considered relatively hard to use by the Dota 2 community, and there are many more examples, such as Earth Spirit, Ember Spirit, Naga Siren, Puck, Enigma, and more (not to mention Invoker). Overall, many of the other advanced characters in LoL (such as Lee Sin, Katarina, and Elise) don't require micromanagement and the same abilities these Dota 2 characters have to manage. Overall, these heroes are responsible for more, but in turn can receive a great reward with their positioning and mechanics.

Sources:
Meepo: http://www.dota2.gamepedia.com...
Morphling: http://www.dota2.gamepedia.com...
Io: http://www.dota2.gamepedia.com...
Chen: http://www.dota2.gamepedia.com...
Shadow Demon: http://www.dota2.gamepedia.com...
(as a bonus) Invoker if you wanna look him up: http://www.dota2.gamepedia.com...;
SirCrona

Con

SirCrona forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Valkrin

Pro

Opponent has forfeited R2.

I regret to inform opponent by the debate rules he has lost.

I thank opponent for his time and hopefully we will be able to debate sometime again in the future.
SirCrona

Con

Vote pro indeed. I didn't have enough time for this debate between finals.
Debate Round No. 3
Valkrin

Pro

If you wish for me to reinstate this debate I can.
SirCrona

Con

No thanks, I don't know enough about LoL to continue. I just accepted because I'm a fan of both games.
Debate Round No. 4
Valkrin

Pro

As you wish.

Thank you for your time, even though we weren't able to have a viable debate. I look forward to debating you in the future.
SirCrona

Con

Thank you, and vote pro.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Valkrin 2 years ago
Valkrin
I won't mention Invoker unless as a last resort, because he's essentially a free win card, and I want a challenge :P
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by warren42 2 years ago
warren42
ValkrinSirCronaTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: I know little on the topic, but Pro stated at the beginning that forfeiture results in a loss for that side, so all 7 of my points go to Pro since Con accepted the debate under these rules.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 2 years ago
Maikuru
ValkrinSirCronaTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession and forfeit by Con.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 2 years ago
Ragnar
ValkrinSirCronaTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.