The Instigator
Baphomet
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Grape
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

On Fulfillment, Or Joy.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/21/2010 Category: Society
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 871 times Debate No: 11253
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Baphomet

Pro

Alright, Joy.

I've noticed in society that there are a lot of things which are completely pointless, which we partake in. Take drugs and alcohol, for example; these are not truly beneficial to our bodies or our minds. People will argue that you must let go and "live a little" once in a while... I don't really think this is true.

There is no part of our bodies or our minds which actually NEEDS non-beneficial things, I believe that everything which brings us joy, in modern society, that is NOT a NEED, only brings us joy because we seek conformity and acceptance.

These outlets for conformity and acceptance have been made by others who would capitalize on our needs for acceptance and conformity, in order to satisfy their own monetary needs.

Therefore, I believe that true joy derives from satisfying our needs, and that the joy which is derived from satisfying our WANTS, has been created by others in order to satisfy their needs, and is artificial and un-necessary.
Grape

Con

Introduction: The resolution of this debate is not very clear, so I'm going to approximate what it is:

Resolved: True joy comes only from satisfying our needs; joy that is derived from satisfying our wants is artificial and unnecessary.

I reject this resolution for two main reasons:

1. Satisfying our needs does not always bring us joy and it is not rational that it would all that often.
2. There are many experiences in life that are not needs that bring people a great deal of joy and would not be considered unfulfilling.

Because my opponent has not given definitions for terms, I'm going to go ahead and do that.

Joy - the emotion of great delight or happiness caused by something exceptionally good or satisfying; keen pleasure; elation

Want - something desired, demanded, or required

Need - a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation

The definitions are very similar so I'm going to make a distinction: the words "required" and "requirement" are being used differently in each definition. If I want something, I may require for a purpose that is not a necessary duty or obligation. If I need something, I require it for a necessary duty or obligation and not simply because I desire it.

Now on to my main points:

C1: Fulfilling needs generally does not bring people joy. For instance, I need to reside in an area with a livable temperature. The fact that it is neither hot nor cold enough to kill me does not bring me any joy. Likewise, in order to survive I need to eat. I may enjoy eating something that is tasty, but the sustenance provided by the food does not bring me any joy. I could go down the list, it is necessary to drink water, necessary to brush one's teeth to avoid decay, necessary to avoid toxic chemicals. People do not feel any joy as a result of doing things that they need to do in order to survive. I cannot be the only one that doesn't feel "an emotion of great delight or happiness" as a result of drinking a cup of water.

C2: The things that bring people a great amount of joy are not necessary at all. Though my opponent uses alcohol and drugs as an example, there are many non-necessary things that bring people joy but are far more fulfilling. Someone my feel great joy as a result of graduating from school, getting a degree, getting married, or teaching their child to walk. You could certainly survive without doing any of those things, but does that mean that the resulting joy is unfulfilling? I would hope not.

Rebuttals to specific statements:

"There is no part of our bodies or our minds which actually NEEDS non-beneficial things, I believe that everything which brings us joy, in modern society, that is NOT a NEED, only brings us joy because we seek conformity and acceptance."

Is there really no other reason to seek wants than for conformity and acceptance? I doubt that would apply to my examples above. Even my opponent's examples don't seem to back this; I doubt an alcoholic drinks in order to conform or to be accepted.

"These outlets for conformity and acceptance have been made by others who would capitalize on our needs for acceptance and conformity, in order to satisfy their own monetary needs."

Money is not a need, conformity and acceptance are not needs. They are wants. And, as I have said, they are not the only wants. There are many wants that are far more meaningful.

That will be all for now. All definitions are from dictionary.com
Debate Round No. 1
Baphomet

Pro

Baphomet forfeited this round.
Grape

Con

My opponent has forfeited the round. All arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 2
Baphomet

Pro

Baphomet forfeited this round.
Grape

Con

My opponent has forfeited again. All arguments extended.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
BaphometGrapeTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Grape 6 years ago
Grape
BaphometGrapeTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06