The Instigator
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The Contender
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On balance, the Separatists (CIS) were more justified than the Republic during the Clone Wars.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/13/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 738 times Debate No: 80904
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)




First Round is acceptance only. The Resolution is that in the Star Wars prequels, the Confederacy of Independent Systems has a more just cause than that of the Galactic Republic. BOP is shared, with Con attempting to prove that the Republic is more justified. Sources will be accepted from official resources such as the movies, books, and comic books, but not from any unofficial resources (ex: fanfiction).
I look forward to a productive and civil debate.


I accept the challenge.
Debate Round No. 1


During the course of this debate, I will attempt to prove that on balance the CIS are the more justified faction. (As opposed to the Republic) While the Republic is portrayed as the "good" faction in the movies, it is apparent that CIS, contrary to how it seems, is not a bad organization. According to the Star Wars wiki article for the Confederacy of Independent Systems, CIS was-

"Formed by various planetary and sectorialal governments, as well as some mega-corporationsions, that declared intentions to leave the Galactic Republic, refusing to comply with its excessive taxation and
corruption in the Senate during theSeparatist Crisis."

Now we know that the CIS was not just an evil mastermind with a robot army. In fact, it was a democratic coalition of thousands of planetary systems. CIS had every reason to create an army, an instead of using cloning, which in and it self in inhumane, they used robots. That way, no Separatist citizens lost family members or were drafted. Now, the same goes for Cloning, but if you look into it, the Clone Program was a awful thing.

"The standard troopers were genetically altered to be more docile and susceptible to obeying orders than their genetic template, supplemented by rigorous behavior modifications to install absolute loyalty to the Galactic Republic. A surgically implanted inhibitor chip was a further safeguard against betrayal from rogue Jedi. The chip, however, proved to be an integral part of the Sith masterplan."

In order to grow fully matured clones in half of the time it takes ordinary Humans, the Kaminoans modified the clones by implementing "age acceleration" into their development, thus allowing the clones to reach adulthood in ten years instead of two decades. Although the exact rate at which clones aged is unknown, it appears to be nearly twice as fast a natural-born Human and it is theorized that this rate increased as clones grew older—especially under stress, thus leading to a dramatic shortening of the clones' life expectancy. Despite these modifications, the clone troopers could still think and act creatively and possessed a level of individuality that their Kaminoan creators did not anticipate.

Just to clarify, that means that they were doomed to die young, brainwashed, and forced to fight for a flawed cause.
Back to you Con.


Okay, lets take this piece by piece.

In fact, it was a democratic coalition of thousands of planetary systems.
-Well, why they did have a democratic branch, the CIS was headed by Count Dooku, who was NOT democratically elected. In fact, the higher up bureaucracy of the CIS was very corrupt.

-I feel that I should point out that, from my understanding, the CIS didn't leave the Republic by legal process, they illegally declared independence. Much like the South during the Civil War.

-Also I have a serious question: Are we debating the motives of the CIS compared to the Republic, or their action during the war. Because if we are purely talking about their motives, then your point on the morality of cloning is mute. But if we are talking about their actions during the war, then let's do that.

-The CIS was aggressive in the extreme during the clone wars. Need I point out examples like the Battle of Ryloth, where citizens were used as living shields to protect the Separatist army, while starving and driving said citizens from their homes. In this scenario the Separatists are far from the moral party involved. Compare this to the Republic, who arrived at Ryloth to liberate it.

That way, no Separatist citizens lost family members or were drafted.
-This is a nice thing to say, but this isn't the reason that the droid army was created. The droid army was created because they needed a mass produced army, and the leaders of the Separatists (who I remind were primarily corporations) had not the experience to lead actual men in battle. It was for the sake of convenience, not primarily to save lives.

-I should note, the army of the CIS was not composed entirely of droids.
"The military forces of the Confederacy of Independent Systems"also known as the Droid Army or the Separatist Army"was a massive mix of weapons of war, battle droids, organic forces, and local warriors. "

the Clone Program was a awful thing.
-Now, the creation of the clone troopers. Why I agree that some things were problematic with the creation of the clone troopers. However, unlike the droids, they were created for a good cause. They needed soldiers, and instead of drafting citizen soldiers they used clones instead. You may argue that they should have used droids, but the clone army was started not by a vote in the Senate, but by a back-door deal. The Republic just decided to continue funding what they already had available to them.

In the end, while the Republic had it's flaws, the Separatists were illegal, corrupt, and ruthless.

Your move.
Debate Round No. 2


While it was expressly stated that the BOP is shared in this debate, and obviously new arguments may not be made in the final round, my opponent, in not making any arguments in favor of the Republic being justified has not fulfilled his or her BOP. In light of this, I will allow an exception to be made in the final round for new arguments to be brought up. However, voters should take note that I am put at a disadvantage because I will not be given the opportunity to refute such claims. It is also worth noting that my opponent was given this opportunity.


Well, why they did have a democratic branch, the CIS was headed by Count Dooku, who was NOT democratically elected. In fact, the higher up bureaucracy of the CIS was very corrupt.

While it is true that Dooku was not democratically elected, people voluntarily joined his cause, therefore giving his leadership legitimacy. This is shown by the fact that it says he swayed many systems to join his cause in this article. [1]
Also, in saying that the higher up bureaucracy of the CIS was corrupt, I have two questions-
1. What bureaucracy?
The Confederation was not interested in their member systems' affairs. They did not have any want or need to intrude upon their own societies and governments. According to the Star Wars wiki (which is very well sourced by the way) the Separatist planets-
began to withdraw from the Senate in 24 BBY, organizing themselves into a loose separatist movement which allowed for capitalism with no government involvement in planetary affairs. [2]
And since the definition of bureaucracy is-


: a large group of people who are involved in running a government but who are not elected

: a system of government or business that has many complicated rules and ways of doing things [3]

Neither definition applies to the Confederation. The first definition does not apply because 1) The group in charge of leading the confederation was not large at all, consisting of only a handful of members. 2) The Confederacy was not so much a government as an alliance of systems, as shown earlier by the fact that there was no government involvement in planetary affairs. The second definition does not apply because the Confederation was fairly simple, and had no set of rules that were forced upon its members. Member states were free to do as they wished.

2. Was their bureaucracy (which I have shown to not even exist) as extensive or as corrupt as that of the Republic?

I feel that I should point out that, from my understanding, the CIS didn't leave the Republic by legal process, they illegally declared independence. Much like the South during the Civil War.

This point is entirely absurd. Lets think about this a bit. If it is wrong for a group of people, who have been wronged, to leave a government that is no longer representative of their values, every war of independence in the history of the world is wrong. Take for example the American Revolution. The American Revolution started because of the lack of representation in England as well as the over-taxation placed on the colonists. These reasons are strikingly similar to the reasons for the formation of the Confederation.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it is wrong.

In conclusion, the CIS was perfectly justified, just as the American Colonists were, to secede from a government where they were under-represented, over-taxed, and mistreated. Thank you.




Okay Pro, final round.

I've been very frustrated with your conduct during the debate.

You set up the debate as an argument over who is more justified. This is all well and good, except for the fact that in your Round 2 argument, you didn't talk about this at all. You gave a description of what the CIS was, and a argument against cloning. Neither of these are an argument justifying the Separatists. The definition isn't an argument at all, and the speech on cloning is just attempting to take the piss out of the Republic. If BOP is supposed to be shared, then you haven't held up your end of the deal. However when Round 3 comes around, suddenly you're calling me out on my lack on fulfilling my BOP. A bit hypocritical, don't you think?

Also you've dropped quite a few of my points:
-Pro has failed to respond to my rebuttal of his statements on the Separatist Army.
-Pro has failed to respond to my attempt to clarify what this debate was about.
-Pro has failed to respond to my counter-example showing Separatist behavior during the war.
-Pro has failed to respond to my counter-argument to his statements on the clone-program.

Anyway, let's do this.


Your counter-argument is laughable. It's quite clear that we're talking about the first definition of bureaucracy, so let's stick to that. "It wasn't that large", are you serious? This is just semantics. Does it really matter whether you have a large group of un-elected officials running the government, or a small one? Of course not, both are corrupt. But I must commend you, clever dodge of my original argument.
Your second point was just a question. No argument, no follow-up, no explanation. But, to answer your question, yes. Yes, it was. The Republic may have been corrupt, but at least they weren't run by a few mega-corporations.

Illegal secession:
You glaze over how important this point is, and derail the conversation with historical examples. You say that the American Revolution was justified, as was the CIS, however you give no evidence for this. It's just a bare assertion. Was the American Revolution justified? Maybe yes, Maybe no, but you just assume it is and build your whole argument on that. And this point of legality is important, because it justifies the Republic's actions. If this is a illegal rebellion, then the Republic has more than enough reason to declare war. They needed to maintain order.


In the end, the Republic has every reason to do what they did. However, Pro hasn't made any REAL arguments justifying the CIS. But I'll let you be the judge of that.

Vote Con.
Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by WillRiley 1 year ago
Yes, I have come back, atleast for a time.
Posted by TheJuniorVarsityNovice 1 year ago
If it isn't my old friend
Posted by DATXDUDE 1 year ago
Don't. Haha ur grammer sux lol
Posted by tajshar2k 1 year ago
Interesting debate, I would debate this, but I dont' have the time
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