Once Saved, Always Saved
I for one believe yes, you can lose it. A believer is changed when they accept salvation and no longer desire the same things they did before. It's very easy to "lose track" of God and to fall away from our salvation.
I'm not sure how this whole thing works but before I continue I'll leave some questions to make common ground for someone who believes you can be saved and do the same thing sinners do or basically do whatever they want and still be saved and make it to heaven.
If you are saved and continue to do the same things you've done before isn't that going against the teachings of 2Corinthians 5:17?
If it is true that you are once saved, always saved believer couldn't it be possible for someone to accept Christ into their heart then later on to completely lose faith in Him and deny Him? Would they still go to heaven for turning their back on God and not returning to Him?
First off, I want to welcome my opponent to DDO. I hope he enjoys it here.
Normally, since my opponent did offer an argument I would make a full case here. But since this is his first debate, I will only make a rebuttal for his argument and allow him the first full case. And off we go..
You say that if you are "saved and continue to do the same things you've done before" than you are going against 2 Cor. 5:17. That's right. But if you continue in your sin constantly you were never truly saved. Just remember "By their fruits ye shall know them"- Matt. 7:20
Now I will allow you the first full argument.
Thanks for the welcome! And for taking it easy :)
You make a very good point, and I agree that once you are saved you are a completely new person. I'm not taking anything away from the power of salvation. But it is possible for one to fall away as stated in Hebrews chapter 6 where it says
" 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame"
NUMBER_1RED_SOX_FAN forfeited this round.
To make everything clear, my opponent responded his side of round 2 in the comment section because of problems with the website letting him respond. So, I will begin responding to his argument here.
In Hebrews 6 after it talks about moving on from elementary teachings to being taken forward to maturity it also says "...not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
Then it goes on to say how it is impossible for one to return to God after falling away without repentance. To me Paul (or whoever wrote Hebrews) is simply saying that okay, we've repented and baptized and its time to move on to new understandings instead of staying in the same elementary teachings. If it is not talking about salvation, then what is it talking about? There are many instances in the Bible where it talks about feeling absent from the presence of the LORD, including in Song on Solomon 5. Hebrews 10:29 states
"29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?"
1Timothy 4:1 says " Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" and goes on to say that characteristics of the ones who have lost the faith.
You mentioned John 10 as He refers to no one taking His sheep away. But if we become no longer after Him and lose salvation, we are no longer His sheep. In verse 26 Jesus says
"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you."
And then continues the statement. To me this statement is about the elect who in the end will remain faithful and true to God and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. In His eyes He knows who will chose Him and who are His sheep.
John 2:19 which you also referred to also talks about the elect. Before I go on to make things clear I believe in free will (I am not sure if you do) and I believe in Gods eyes He knows who will belong to Him. In our eyes, we do not know though.
Back to the subject, like I said, it refers to the ones who will stay with Jesus and continue to believe in Him.
Before I end my side of this I would like to say I believe the Bible as 100% undeniable truth and that His ways are far beyond our understandings. I do believe once you are saved you should always be saved but I don't believe in the once saved, always saved mentality of accepting Jesus once then doing anything you want the rest of you're life thinking its okay.
NUMBER_1RED_SOX_FAN forfeited this round.