One Piece Universe vs. Naruto Universe
Yup, it's another classic pirates vs. ninjas debate, except these aren't any ordinary pirates or ninjas! The full resolution is, "In a war, the One Piece universe would beat the Naruto universe."
Burden of Proof -
I, Pro, must prove that in a war between the One Piece universe and Naruto universe, the former would win.
My opponent, Con, must prove that in a war between the One Piece universe and Naruto universe, the latter would win.
Rules for Battle -
1. All current characters in the series will be restored to full health and power.
2. All deceased characters will be brought back to life with full health and power.
3. Any characters that died before the series began (i.e. the Sage of the Six Paths, Gol D. Roger, etc.) will be excluded from rule number two. This includes the ten tails.
4. The only exception to rule number three is Brook (from One Piece) and Edo Tensei (from Naruto).
5. The setting of the battle will take place on an open plain with several large lakes dotted around the area.
6. Neither universe will have any knowledge of the other universe's abilities and/or weaknesses.
7. We are assuming that all characters from the Naruto universe are working together cooperatively to defeat the One Piece universe. Likewise, all characters from the One Piece universe are working together cooperatively to defeat the Naruto universe.
The first round is acceptance and clarification only. I ask that there will be no semantics, and I look forward to a fun and interesting debate!
Well. I must admit I actually like One Peice more, but I am still a fan of Naruto and I will gladly defend it. I agree to all terms, and I actually am very excited and curious about this debate and what will happen.
Good luck Peaceful Chaos!
I thank my opponent for accepting this debate.
Before beginning with my arguments, I’d like to define a few terms I will be using frequently throughout the debate.
With that out of the way, I will now proceed with my arguments.
1. Superior Weapons
Unlike the Naruverse, the OPverse has guns, cannons, and other modern day weapons that are much more powerful than knives and paper bombs. This advantage will prove extremely beneficial to the OPverse, as ninjas such as Naruto have never experienced guns before.
2. Logia Users
One of the main problems the Naruverse will have to deal with is that of the logia devil fruit users. The first and foremost problem is that none of the characters in Naruto possesses haki, which is essential when fighting logia devil fruit users. As a result, the Naruverse can do little harm to them, since those who have eaten a logia type devil fruit can control and turn into a certain element. Examples include the element of light, smoke, fire, lava, ice, lightning, etc. This ability allows them to become intangible, rendering nearly all attacks useless. As stated earlier, one of the only ways to actually hurt a logia type is through haki, which disables their ability to turn into a certain element. Sadly, none of the characters of the Naruverse possess this ability, making it extremely hard to damage a logia user. Con may attempt to point out that they can still be harmed by genjutsu’s, but I must ask Con, how in the world is it possible to use genjutsu on sand? Or light? Or lava? I’m not sure you can use genjutsu on an element.
3. Significant Characters
Here I will list a few of the characters that will be instrumental in the war. The following characters can most likely solo most of the Naruverse.
I could list even more people, but I believe that this should be enough for now.
4. Overwhelming Numbers
While the Naruverse may have all the ninjas from every single village, the OPverse has the entire World Government on their side. This means that every single Marine in existence will be in battle, and it is safe to say that there are many more Marines than there are ninjas. This is because Marines are coming from all around the world, whereas ninjas are coming from about 4-5 villages or so.
In conclusion, it is clear that the Naruverse is outnumbered and their weapons are outclassed. They have almost no way of harming logia devil fruit users, and considering there are characters that can solo most of the entire universe on their own, it is a clear win for the OPverse.
I will now hand over the next round to my opponent and I look forward to his arguments.
I thank my opponent for his arguments. I am impressed by your knowledge of the One Peice Universe. Now, for my argument.
First, I will define some Naruto Lingo for you.
Chakra: Energy one has that can be used for using jutsu. The amount of chakra one has depends completely on the person who has it.
Jutsu: Spells or magic used by doing hand signs and using chakra
Sharingan Eye: An Eye that originated from the Uchiha Clan in the Leaf Village that when used, gives the user power and chakra.
Biju: 9 legendary beasts that take over a host and give them enormous amounts of chakra. The downside is that they usually can't use the chakra unless they can control the beast inside them (which is near impossible) and they are hunted by the Akatsuki, a group of rougue shinobi who vow to dominate the world by extracting the 9 Biju's from their host and creating 10 tails, the worlds most powerful creature ever.
Hokage: The village leader.
Now, for my opponent's argument.
1) Unlike the Naruverse, the OPverse has guns, cannons, and other modern day weapons that are much more powerful than knives and paper bombs. This advantage will prove extremely beneficial to the OPverse, as ninjas such as Naruto have never experienced guns before.
Guns, huh? You really think that the Naruto universe hasn't been subjected to a form of gun? A large amount of jutsu in the Naruniverse consists of using projectiles that explode on impact, such as Fire Bomb Jutsu, Water Bomb Jutsu, and Paper bombs. Jugo(http://naruto.wikia.com...) also transformed his body into a huge aray of guns to try and defeat the Raikage at the Gokage summit, and since the Raikage wasn't confused on what they were, I'm pretty sure the rest of the naruto universe will. Guns will not be seen as anything other than a new jutsu they don't know about. And on that note, im sure a fire bomb or water bomb jutsu will cause much more damage than a pistol or shotgun.
2) The first and foremost problem is that none of the characters in Naruto possesses haki, which is essential when fighting logia devil fruit users
Logia's are a pain, i will admit. Still, not invincible. While the Naruto Universe does not posses haki, we have genjutsu: The jutsu of the mind. Genjutsu can paralize the opponent, confuse the opponent, or even destroy the person's mind from the inside, like Uchiha Itachi's Tsukuyomi (http://naruto.wikia.com...), which hospitalized Kakashi for almost a week, and he is one of the most powerful ninja in Konoha (The leaf Village). Haki will be no match for it.
3) Nico Robin
The main argument for Nico Robin is doppelgangers (Copies of a ninja using jutsu). Nico robin is physically weak, while mentally sharp and has the powerful hana-hana fruit, which allows her to sprout arms anywhere. But, if she does it to someone who has a Lightning Shadow Doppelganger, she will be electrocuted and full of pain. If more than one ninja does it, she will be electrocuted
and easily defeated.
Again, I say genjutsu. Genjutsu could infiltrate his mind and cause him to turn on his allies and kill them and even himself, taking care of all the navy that he mentioned later in his argument.
4) As I said, the Naruto people can control the most powerful ones and take care of almost all of the petty oficers immediately. Also, each navy person is weak. Every ninja in Konoha is powerful and trained to kick a$$. It is a no contest.
In conclusion, it is clear that the One Peice universe is outclassed. They have almost no way of harming genjutsu users, and considering there are characters that can solo most of the entire universe on their own, it is a clear win for the Naruniverse.
I apoligize for my somewhat weak argument. I will expand next round, and not completely use Genjutsu again.
Got everything from reading shonen jump and http://naruto.wikia.com...
1. Superior Weapons
I will once again hand the next round over to my opponent, and I wish him luck with his arguments.
1)however, they have never actually seen or experienced a gun, so they probably will just assume that the Marines are carrying sticks as weapons.
How very convenient, since I can use the same argument. I'm sure that the marines will assume that the ninja just have hands. Nothing unusual. Then..... BAM!!! Firebombs and waterbombs galore spew forth from their hands like..... nevermind.... (yes, i'm a pervert. :D ) Now, besides my perverted references, marines will not expect huge bombs of fire and water to rain down like snow. So, on the point of not expecting things from the enemy, I beleive I win this point.
Furthermore, all the chakra attacks such as fireball jutsu are clearly visible, whereas bullets are much smaller.
This too, works to my advantage. 1 gunshot=1 bullet. 1 bullet can kill 1 person on average. Now, there is the bombs. 1water/fire bomb=1 badass explosion. 1 badass explosion can kill 10+ navy men. Do the math from there.
We must also consider that the average ninja has trouble dodging jutsus, yet bullets move at much faster rates than the ninja's attacks; thus, the average ninja will easily be shot down by the Marines.
We must also consider the average navyman has trouble dodging jutsus. Ninja's are fast, and can run great distances at top speed. Navymen are not that fast. They will have trouble avoiding huge bombs of fire and water.
I also must ask Con where he got the idea that the Raikage wasn't confused as to what the chakra cannons were, considering only Jugo has this ability and the source he provides states no such thing.
I don't have the exact page that the battle took place on, but in my next argument, if need be, I will take a picture of the page, and show you. The Raikage got shot by Jugo, and wasn't saying "what was that?", and neither were any of the bystanders or subordanates. One of them said "oh no, point blank range!"(or something along those lines), meaning they weren't confused by guns or explosions and such.
2) "Con may attempt to point out that they can still be harmed by genjutsu’s, but I must ask Con, how in the world is it possible to use genjutsu on sand? Or light? Or lava? I’m not sure you can use genjutsu on an element."
My apoligies for not attacking this point earlier. Anyway, my opponent acts as though when someone devours a logia devil friut, that their minds are that element too. If Mr. Crocidile's mind was made of sand, he could not be the mastermind of a criminal orginization that would almost overthrow the kingdom of Alabasta. No, he would be practically retarted, literally. It would basically be like eating the stupid-stupid fruit (laughs). Genjutsu only attacks the mind. Not the body. That is the point.
Nearly no one can hurt a Haki user, since those who possess Haki can predict an enemy's movements and even their powers/abilities.
Haki is used to predict moves by analyzing their opponents pattern of attacks based on knowledge they already know. It is all based on prediction. Ninja's have moves that no one else knows, so how can someone predict something that they have never experienced? That's the thing: they can't. Also, my opponent acts as though everyone in the OPuniverse has Haki. Only about 20 known people can do this. Even less know the 3rd kind of haki: the color of the supreme king. The total of people who can use the 3rd haki is 6: Boa hancock, Luffy, Ace, Whitebeard, Reyleigh, and Shanks. Not that many.
Haki also allows the user to knock out all conscious beings within the user's range
Within the user's range is key here. Lots of jutsu is long range, which can take out enemies from afar.
3) Nico Robin: I am suprised by my opponent's argument and how well it was done. Still, a secret weapon against Nico would be Shadow Possesion Jutsu , known by my favorite character, Shikimaru of the Naru Clan. Shadow possesion jutsu takes over a person's body and control's their movement to match the user's movement. The user needs only a shadow of any part of the opponent's body, and they are under their control. If one of the Naru Clan uses this, Nico will be easy prey.
Con foolishly believes that genjutsu will be able to stop and even control the three characters listed above
Yes, I do. :)
Genjutsu is a tricky form of jutsu that even extremely powerful ninjas such as Jiraiya have trouble controlling
Rather off topic, but Jaraiya wasn't necessarily a genjutsu specialist. As for the number of Genjutsu specialists that DO exist, the number far exceed the total number of 3 people my opponent mentioned.
4) Covered, I guess.
Additional Arguments: My opponent argues that Luffy is practically unbeatable and is very powerful and can move literally faster than lazers. I agree that Luffy can change his body size in certain areas like his fist's and feet, but he can not move faster than lasers. I would like proof that he does if you think that.
I will cover the warlords next argument, since unfortunately i am running out of my word limit.
Now, onto my ace in the holes.
1) The Nora Clan
See nico robin argument.
2) Yamanaka Clan
The Yamanaka Clan is famous for it's Mind Transfer Jutsu, which switches minds with the opponent. If one of these people uses this on a devil fruit user, they need only walk into a body of water or water held there by jutsu, they will drown easily and die. Nuff said.
Probably the most powerful Akatsuki member next to Pain and Madara, he is nicknamed the "Tailless Biju." Kisame will be the key in killing the vast majority of Devil Fruit Users. He can use incredibal water techniques (see all of them here: http://naruto.wikia.com...) . With techiques like water prism jutsu and the movable dome he has, he is indestructable and can easily destroy devil fruit users.
I hand it over to my opponent with 3 letters to spare.
1. Superior Weapons
Con states the Marines won't expect jutsu like fireballs; however, the Marines have experienced attacks like these on a much larger scale from devil fruit (DF) users. The ninjas, on the other hand, have never actually seen a gun or how it works. Jugo’s chakra cannons aren't an exception, since they shoot chakra (not bullets) and don't look like a gun.
2. Logia Users
Con states that genjutsu affects the mind; however, he's only partially correct. “Genjutsu techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim’s brain,” which in turn affects the cerebral nervous system of the victim . No one in the OPverse possesses chakra, and with no chakra to manipulate in the brain, there is no genjutsu. Instead of chakra, everyone in the OPverse possesses Haki, but not everyone has completely mastered it; thus, only some people are capable of actually utilizing it . This isn't to say that Haki won't work on the Naruverse. Unlike genjutsu, Haki doesn't require the victim to possess a certain type of life force; thus, it will still work effectively against the Naruverse .
Also, concerning Haki, Con is completely wrong. No where in the source provided does it state that Haki is used to predict their opponent’s attacks based on what they already know. Also, there is proof that completely contradicts this notion. When Enel/Eneru fought Luffy, he had no idea of Luffy’s powers. In fact, Enel/Eneru didn’t even know that such a thing as rubber existed (what Luffy's made of). Despite this completely unexpected and unknown power, Enel/Eneru was still capable of using his Haki.
Furthermore, Haki is used by a plethora of characters. Con counts 20 off the wiki, but neglects to realize that two of those 20 are actually groups of people; thus, it is logical to conclude that there are approximately several hundred Haki users (HU). This is because everyone with the rank Vice Admiral (VA) and above in the Marines has Haki, and the Marines span the entire earth, so there will be plenty of VA's and above.
Lastly, Con attempts to refute the point that Haki will not work on those who can shoot jutsu from afar; however, that doesn’t change the fact that everyone an HU can see will become unconscious. Also, the range of an HU is very far. Luffy was capable of knocking out over 50,000 soldiers in battle with a single glance . That pretty much equates to several villages alone. Now, Con is probably going to try to prove that Haki will knock out the OPverse too, but that isn't true. HU's are capable of selecting who they want to knock out. Lastly, Con completely ignored HU's ability to create an invisible armor around the user that can be used for defense or to enhance attacks greatly.
3. Significant Characters
Nico Robin: Shikimaru wouldn't magically target Nico Robin first. He might target her after thousands of his friends die and he figures out it's her doing it. Let’s not forget that Robin is capable of sprouting her limbs wherever she wants mentally. Shikimaru is only capable of controlling the physical body, which means that she can still sprout limbs out of peoples' bodies and snap their necks, since those limbs aren’t being affected by the shadow possession jutsu.
Whitebeard, Kizaru, and Mihawk: I have already proven why genjutsu won’t work on them. Let’s not forget that Whitebeard is capable of tanking unbelievable amounts of damage (i.e. when he was old and weak he received hundreds of sword wounds, hundreds of cannon wounds, a hole ripped through his chest, magma wounds, and magma burning half of his face off, yet he was still beat entire armies).
Also, Con states that a plethora of ninja are capable of effectively using genjutsu, yet doesn’t list a single one. In fact, the wiki itself states that genjutsu is tricky and hard to use . The average ninja finds it amazing if you can make someone disoriented so that everything around them turns fuzzy, so it isn’t likely that there will be many skilled genjutsu users.
4. Additional Arguments
Con asks me to provide evidence of Luffy dodging a laser.
In case the video is not working, then please search up on YouTube, “One Piece 521 Luffy (Time skip) vs Pacifista.”
Con’s Arguments –
1. Nora Clan (NC)
The problem with this argument is that while using the shadow possession jutsu, the user is harmed by whatever their victim is harmed, as was shown in the Chunin exams when Shikimaru used the jutsu on a sound ninja.
2. Yamanaka Clan (YC)
Same problem as NC; if victim drowns, so does the YC. Also, while using the jutsu, they can't control their own body, meaning someone could kill them. Lastly, this jutsu is extremely hard to hit with. Luffy, in base form, was able to dodge lasers, and in Gear Second his speed is tenfold. Most of the top-tier people, if not all, are able to keep up with, or close to, Luffy’s Gear Second, while some call his Gear Second “slow.”
While Kisame may be a good counter to DF users, he’s still completely outclassed. How can he hit something moving at the speed of light (Kizaru), or someone that can absorb any fluid, including water (Crocodile), or someone who can send a massive wall of fire/magma capable of taking down approximately five tremendous Marine ships (Ace/Akainu, respectively), or someone who can freeze all the water (Aojiki) or … you get the point.
Also, water won’t always work against DF users with Haki. Remember, HU's can create an invisible armor so that water doesn't touch them. Lastly, when a DF user is submerged in water, it takes a while for them to lose their powers and not be able to move. In that time, they can do plenty of things to save themselves.--
I thank Con for a wonderful debate, and I enjoyed it very much. Hopefully, we can do another debate like this in the future.
1. My opponent talks about how since marines have seen devil fruit users, they will not be at all shocked by the jutsu of the Ninja. But, my opponent ignores the fact that the Devil Fruit are incredibally rare, and there are a little over 50 devil fruit users known to the OPiverse. There are hundreds of thousands of Ninja's in naruto. The water/firebomb jutsu is one of the most basic jutsu, so we're talking about thousands of people who use fireball attacks over 50 devil fruit users.
Jugo’s chakra cannons aren't an exception, since they shoot chakra (not bullets) and don't look like a gun.
Well, according to google.com/dictionary, a gun is defined as "a weapon used to shoot a projectile using a form of energy to expell the projectile from the barrel". Well, Jugo's gun (seen here [http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net...] with the raikage, who, I add, is not freaked out cause he recognizes a gun) projects chakra using his power to expell the chakra bullets. I win.
The pro ignores my arguments on dodging and the math of gun to jutsu ratios, so I beleive i win those points by default.
2. My opponent goes on about how the OPverse does not have Chakra. This point is untrue, because chakra is real, and people in real life have chakra. Chakra is "Each of the centers of spiritual power in the human body" (google dictionray). Everyone has chakra. Therefore, the Naruverse people in fact can use Genjutsu on the OPverse.
No where in the source provided does it state that Haki is used to predict their opponent’s attacks
Actually, it says, word for word in my source, "one can use this Haki to predict an opponent's moves shortly before they make them". Therefore, he is completely wrong on this point.
On my opponetns point on Eneru, I praise him for is good point. Still, Eneru was able to predict Luffy's move because he has battled many before him, and knows the average pattern of attacks people would use. Therefore, Eneru was able to predict what Luffy would due due to past results.
however, that doesn’t change the fact that everyone an HU can see will become unconscious.
Not true, but a good point though. If a haki user used binoculars, a telescope, or skype or factime (laughs) could he still use haki to beat them? No. Just seeing someone won't do it. They have to be IN THEIR RANGE, as my opponent himself stated in his 3rd round argument. Therefore, my point still stands.
Nico: It isn't just Shikimaru who knows it. It's an entire clan, meaning hundreds can use it. And yes, Nico does sprout them mentally, but her arms are physical, therefore, able to be controled.
W, K, and M:
I have already in depth proved genjutsu can be used on anyone.
He does doesn’t list a single genjutsu user
I am sorry, I know this is lazy, but i am limited by the amount of words aloud, so here is a link (http://naruto.wikia.com...). It speaks of many ninja that can use genjutsu. The main Gen-Bruisers are: Itachi, with his deadly Tsukiyomi technique, Kurunai Yuhi, who can enter peoples minds and control them like a puppet, and Madara, who can brainwash and control people, and possesses both the Sharingan and the Reniggen. They can all do Genjutsu with ease, as can many others.
4. He used haki to avoid that lazer. Nowhere in the video did he outrun it. My opponent's video is invalid.
while using the shadow possession jutsu, the user is harmed by whatever their victim is harmed
This happens a lot in the Naruverse. They use a possesion of some sort, and then release the Jutsu right as they do a finishing blow. If they are too late, i'm sure one of the Nora clan would gladly sacrafice themself to stop Nico from killing so many.
Again, a sacrafice of someone in the YC would gladly sacrafice themself to take out the devil fruit users. If there are at least a hundred of the YC, and only 58 Devil fruit users known, then a sacrafice of half of a clan to destroy 58 powerful enemies in a fake scinereo seems like a great trade. Luffy is fast, but if one of the NC posseses them, they are now hard and immobile like wedding d!ck (I don't know why the hell i said that). Then, they YC takes them, drowns them, and Viola!
Aha. I knew an argument against an impossible enemy such as Kisame would be a feeble attempt. I will attack every enemy he named.
Kizaru: He does NOT move at the speed of light, his light projectiles do. He does not. He is fast, but not the speed of light. He just controls light. He is a paramecia devil fruit user, not a Logia type. He is not his element.
Mr. Crocodile: True, he can absorb water, but his weakness is water too. He can only be hit when wet (insert sex joke here), and since Kisame controls water and a huge dome of water, when Croc is in the water, he will be ripped to shreds by Kisame.
Ace: Ace is fire. Kisame is water. I don't need to say anymore.
And, the weakness of all of the devil fruit users in the OPverse is: WATER. It immediately saps their energy away, completely contradicting my opponent's argument on the water taking time to take effect. It is said in the OPverse manga by Shanks that "When touched by water past a devil fruit user's knees, they sink like a hammer and drown like a rock." Kisame is fast, a controller of water, and specializes in drowning people with techniques such as the water prison jutsu. Drowning Devil Fruit user's is twice as fast and easy. Nuff' said.
I thank my opponent for this very fun, knowledgable, and challenging debate. He had very good points, and I would enjoy to debate him in the future. I thank the audience and voters for reading my arguments and putting up with my random mini-trolling and sexual jokes.
VOTE FOR CON!!!!!!!
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