The Instigator
benschroeder43
Pro (for)
The Contender
darth_timon
Con (against)

Open-Topic Discussion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 7/6/2017 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 382 times Debate No: 103111
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

benschroeder43

Pro

Hi, to whoever considers accepting this offer to an open-topic free-style discussion/debate, allow me to elaborate what this is:

The format is simple: Pick ANY topic you would like to talk about and go for it. I encourage picking something you are more familiar with to limit the amount of time spent providing citations, as I would much rather prefer a direct explanation of the issue (of course background and data to back it up is appreciated).

There is no true structure to this, other than the mandatory limited 5 round system.

Simply pick a topic and state it in a format so that you are arguing CON/AGAINST and I am arguing PRO/FOR (in other words use a double-negative if you need to), and go for it, do not worry about form or style or consistency, I want to hear what you have to say about something, not how well you can say it.

I will naturally be arguing the opposite of your stance, and in the end I hope we come to some gratifying feeling of engagement with one another's ideas.

I look forward to an open discussion.
darth_timon

Con

Hi! I like your line of approach here - should be quite fun and interesting!

Ok, as I am a complete geek, my subject matter is simple - who wins in a fight, Iron Man or Batman? Parameters include prep time, whether or not they are aware of each other, and for the sake of making it clearer, can we go with the MCU/DCEU versions of these characters?
Debate Round No. 1
benschroeder43

Pro

Iron Man does not stand a chance. This is not even a debate. Sure, Iron Man has the hi-tech advantage, but lets be honest, Stark is not the best combat strategist. I think we can agree that Wayne has had way more close-up combat experience.

The issue is, Iron Man has not only a range advantage, but also an aerial advantage, being much more stable and capable of long-term flight. But, what Iron Man does not have is the element of surprise, I mean for real, you can hear him coming a mile away with those thrusters. Batman on the other hand is quiet, and could easily strike Iron Man with something he did not see coming. Batman does his research, he goes into fights prepared with almsot exactly the right utilities for the fight. It's no question that he would bring some device that could drain some power from Iron Mans suit, rendering at least his thrusters useless if he gets a sneaky attack on him.

If we assume Batman gets that attack on him, then we would have to see this battle as an on-the-ground fight. Still, Iron Man has the range advantage. Even then, Batman chooses his battlegrounds wisely, and I would assume that he has picked a location with lots of cover. Sure, in an open arena I would have to give the fight to Iron Man, because not even Batman could do anything about incoming projectiles one after another, but assuming this is taking place in a more closed area, such as a rooftop with lots of places for cover, or maybe a dark alley way, Iron Man's weaponry would be quite useless, bringing this fight to a fist-to-fist close-combat engagement.

As I mentioned earlier, Batman is far more experienced with close combat than Iron Man. Even with his boosted punches and throws, Batman would dodge, block, and strike back. A simple jab to the eye area on his helmet would completely throw him off, since he would see shattered glass whereever he looked. Repetetive pushes and throws from Batman would keep Iron Man unstable, and we know that he already has some stability issues on the ground, so he would have trouble getting even a single controlled and coordinated hit on Batman.

I will take some time to weaken Iron Mans armor, but luckily Batman always carries the right tool for the job. Perhaps some devices that drain more and more power from Iron Mans suit if hit in the right places, such as the obvioyus arc reactor, would render his tech useless. Explosives or stealth devices, like a smoker would make it impossible for Iron Man to locate and target Batman. In the end this can only end one way, and that is with the victory of Batman.
darth_timon

Con

I take it we're going with the movie versions of these characters?

I would suggest that it depends on whether Bruce Wayne's genius is enough to out-fox Tony Stark's genius. Stark has designed armour and weaponry that is undetectable to even SHIELD (see Age of Ultron - the jet Banner got away in was designed with stealth systems by Stark), so there's nothing to suggest Stark couldn't sneak up upon Wayne and catch him off guard. I will concede that this is not typically how Stark operates - he lights direct confrontation, whereas Wayne - not so much.

However, if they are both aware of an impending fight, this affords Stark prep time too. He would be aware of Wayne's combat prowess, the likelihood of traps etc, and take steps to bombard the area where Wayne is waiting. His weaponry allows him to effectively operate at a stand-off distance, beyond the ability of Wayne's toys to hit him. Element of surprise or not, what is Batman going to do when several missiles (like those launched in droves in The Avengers against Loki's army) are coming for him? What about the tank-killing missiles from the first Iron Man movie? Or the various high-powered beams he can shoot out from a safe distance?

Even in close-quarters, there is nothing to stop Iron Man from using his powerful weapons. His suit took a battering from Thor's Hammer, got blasted at by Ultron, he's been hit by tank shells, aircraft, other similarly armed beings to him, and he's weathered it all. He can use his missiles at close quarters and survive, even if hurt. Batman on the other hand, wouldn't survive. Batman just doesn't have the firepower or physical strength to win. He can't evade forever - and one decent blow to the head is all it takes.

After all, Batman wasn't completely unscathed even when fighting against thugs in Batman vs Superman, if they can catch him off guard, Iron Man certainly can.
Debate Round No. 2
benschroeder43

Pro

Okay, sure Iron Man probably comes to this fight prepared. But like I said, Wayne does his research. We know what he tried to build to go against the Man of Steel, someone who is invincible to almost anything that is not a green glowing crystal. That was a challenge, but Iron Man. Let's be real, if Batman was able to build a super suit that could at least help to withstand an all-powerful alien super-being, surely he could build a mechanism to defend against Iron Man.

Moreover, the Batman package includes his mobiles, aircraft, etc. So what is Iron Man going to do when Batman comes in an aircraft equipped to defend against projectiles and other gimmicks Stark has in stock? Batman easily has the upper hand when it comes to wealth and networking, he may be taking on Iron Man solo, but I have no doubt he could contact some of his friends to tell him exactly what Iron Man's weaknesses are, and how to take him on. Moreover, with all the money Wayne has, not even the genius that Stark is could predict what Batman will bring to the fight. Sure, he can prepare for the classic defensive moves, explosives, traps, etc, but Batman knows how easily Iron Man could defend against the very weapons he is familiar with. Batman would give himself an overhaul of an upgrade and design himself to be the perfect weapon against Iron Man.

Tony Stark does not prepare. This is fact. He plans at last minute, relies on his allies to help him out, and comes to most battles with a naive and conceited attitude. Sometimes this helps, if he knows what he is going against he can easily play the psyche game and throw his opponent off guard, but against a man of many surprises, not so much. It is hard for me to even believe Stark would consider himself losing this fight, and that is exactly why he will lose. It is notable that many times in his fights he fails a first time, not yet understanding the strength of his opponent, and I think that is what will happen here. He will come in to the fight thinking it will be an easy victory against a so-called Dark Knight, but with this attitude he will be thrown off guard when Batman comes in with blows that he did not think would hit him.

No matter how well-equipped Stark may think he is, his ego will always prevent him from going an extra mile, and he will not be prepared for the loss he is to face.
darth_timon

Con

In this post, I'm going to highlight some of the weaknesses with the scenarios on offer, and why they hurt Batman rather than help him.

1. In order to stand a chance of winning, Batman needs prep time.
2. He needs to find an area to fight that negates Iron Man's aerial advantage.

If the two of them were to wander across one another and a fight breaks out, I believe we can agree that Iron Man wins? After all, he went toe-to-toe with a Demi-God and held his own. He would have beaten Steve Rogers (aka Captain America, an enhanced supersoldier) in Civil War if not for Bucky's last second interference.

There's no telling how good Batman's powered armour was in BvS. We have nothing to gauge it against, and the armour did nothing to resist Superman. How good would it be against huge jolts of electricity (Iron Man's suit not only withstood this in The Avengers but he was able to channel and use that power)? How effective would it be against the impact of a military jet (shrugged off in the first Iron Man film)? It's all well and good to theorise that Batman would be able to bring all sorts of toys to neutralise Iron Man's abilities, but no form of energy attack has managed to permanently disable his suit, and it remains solid as armour regardless. Plus, Iron Man can analyse an opponent's fight pattern (as seen against Cap in Civil War) and very quickly devise countermeasures.

You say Wayne has the upper hand in terms of wealth - Stark is a billionaire as well, one who designed military hardware. That's a fair bit of networking right there.
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by ILikePie5 6 months ago
ILikePie5
Would you be willing to have a Trump vs Clinton style debate....Me being for Trump and against Hillary, and you vice versa? You would have to attack Trump and defend Hillary
Posted by ILikePie5 6 months ago
ILikePie5
Would you be willing to have a Trump vs Clinton style debate....Me being for Trump and against Hillary, and you vice versa? You would have to attack Trump and defend Hillary
Posted by ILikePie5 6 months ago
ILikePie5
Would you be willing to have a Trump vs Clinton style debate....Me being for Trump and against Hillary, and you vice versa? You would have to attack Trump and defend Hillary
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