The Instigator
Juggernaut
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
TheSkeptic
Pro (for)
Winning
27 Points

Opponent's Choice

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
TheSkeptic
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/13/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,143 times Debate No: 5968
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (5)

 

Juggernaut

Con

Audience, please vote on presented arguments and not on personal opinion.
My position stands as "I oppose my opponent".
TheSkeptic

Pro

I thank my opponent for starting this open debate.

I choose the resolution of this debate to be the following: "Flag desecration in the United States Should be Legal". I very well realize that flag desecration IS legal in the US right now, but there has been several proposed amendments concerning this issue, with one barely failing in the US Senate by one vote.

I will allow my opponent to start with his opening argument in the 2nd Round, and from Rounds 2-4 it will proceed as a normal 3-Round debate, as this is what I interpret what my opponent meant to happen.
Debate Round No. 1
Juggernaut

Con

Desecrating a flag which isn't yours is illegal and should stay that way. Publically desecrating the flag is certainly something that should not be rewarded, and definitely be punished. On private property which isn't yours, the owner has and should have every right to press charges. Flag desecration could be considered a hate crime or a threat. It's rare that a case flag desecration does not provoke violence, terrorism, or hate.

But the intent of the flag desecration matters more than the actual action. Judging an action by it's intent alone isn't something black and white, but punishments are generally decided by popular opinion anyway.
I realize that flag desecration is usually a victim-less crime. So I would propose anywhere from a small to large punishment, or none at all. It depends on the situation.

More to come,
Juggernaut
TheSkeptic

Pro

Whew, my opponent posted a response. It was boiling down to 2 hours and I was afraid he was going to forfeit :). Anyway, onto the debate!

*NOTE* I had to put an asterisk in place of the letter "a" for the more explicit version of the word gay. This is of course, just me citing the three infamous words projected by the Westboro Baptist Church.

~Counterarguments~

"Desecrating a flag which isn't yours is illegal and should stay that way...On private property which isn't yours, the owner has and should have every right to press charges."

--> I never contended that vandalizing the private property of others should be legalized. However, if you own the flag yourself, then it should be perfectly acceptable to desecrate it.

1. Freedom of expression

Desecrating a flag is a victimless crime, like my opponent states. It harms no one, and the only cost it has is for the owner of the flag (to buy more to burn). Sure, it may offend some people, but we live in a democratic society. Like it or not, you WILL be offended by something. Burning crosses is legal. Being racist is legal. Walking around with signs saying "God Hates F*gs" [1] is perfectly legal as well.

The only time when aforementioned actions are ILLEGAL, is when their doings trespass into the legality of other issues. When racist ideologues start to commit hate crimes, then this becomes a problem. When the Westboro Baptist Church started to impede upon private funerals, then this also become a problem with the law [2].

So when desecrating the flag, as long as it doesn't impede on anyone else' rights, then it should be perfectly okay as a form of expression.

~Conclusion~

As stated by my opponent, "It depends on the situation", if desecrating a flag is done under a situation where no one gets hurt or impeded on their personal rights, then it should be legitimate as a form of expression.

---References---
1. http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com...*gs.jpg
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Juggernaut

Con

Juggernaut forfeited this round.
TheSkeptic

Pro

Seeing how my opponent's account is of now inactive, I do not know if this debate will continue. Until he comes back, extend all my arguments to this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Juggernaut

Con

Juggernaut forfeited this round.
TheSkeptic

Pro

With my opponent's account no longer being active, this is no doubt a win for me. Quite unfortunate, as we were just about to get started. Extend all my arguments to this round and vote for PRO!
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by ournamestoolong 8 years ago
ournamestoolong
josh lives.
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
That's just sad. :(
Posted by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
Yeah, he just jumped 20 something points in an hour again.
Posted by jjmd280 8 years ago
jjmd280
Vote-bombed again, eh skeptic?
For the record, All points to Pro.
Posted by Juggernaut 8 years ago
Juggernaut
Good choice.
Posted by Juggernaut 8 years ago
Juggernaut
It's your choice. You choose what topic you wish to debate about.
Posted by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
Do you want me to present several topics and wait for you to start? Or just go on ahead and state one topic.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
JuggernautTheSkepticTied
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Vote Placed by jjmd280 8 years ago
jjmd280
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Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
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Vote Placed by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
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Vote Placed by TheSkeptic 8 years ago
TheSkeptic
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