The Instigator
Messi-09
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
funnycn
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Organised religion is the root of much evil

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/14/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 575 times Debate No: 63209
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

Messi-09

Pro

I believe that organised religion is a fundamental problem in our society, in that it places all of it's followers and believers under one banner, and on many occasions fails to recognize individual differences in beliefs and opinions. It is the core of many religious conflicts around the world, as it can brainwash it's followers into the mentality of "my religion is better than yours", and "everybody should follow my religion", which as we know can lead to fundamentalism.

I respect that people with similar beliefs are naturally drawn to one another, however it would be beneficial for society if we each had our own view of what "God" is, instead of believing what others believe (so joining a organised religion such as Catholicism) and then adopting a defensive stance when somebody disagrees. Instead of the mentality "my religion is better than yours," I would prefer a mentality of "Yes I believe in a higher power, a God, but it is my God, and if you want to believe in something different, than that is fine."

Yes it may be a bit idealistic, but I would like to hear what people have to say on the matter.
funnycn

Con

==Argument==
I accept. I assume the BoP is shared. I must show Organized religion is not the root of evil, whereas you must show it is the root of evil.

Let's start by defining what organized religion is.

"in which belief systems and rituals are systematically arranged and formally established"
[http://en.wikipedia.org...]

Now, how it's arranged AND where depends on it's effectiveness. Places in the middle east
are fine with organized religions (Islam and other Arabic beliefs). Even America(including the colonies) for a long time was under influence of organized religion.

As early as 5,000 years, organized religions have existed. In the Mayan civilizations, the people of the tribe had worshipped deities in a formally established system involving rituals, such as removing one's heart and offering it to the Sun God. The people were fine with it. It was practiced as early as the classic period.
[http://en.wikipedia.org...]

In Egypt, similar sacrifices were done as well. One king, had voluntarily given up his life.

In Pre-Columbian America, there is hardcore evidence of voluntary sacrifice. Marcos de Niza had wrote "they of this valley cast lots whose luck (honour) it shall be to be sacrificed"

Or in otherwords, it was a great honor to be sacrificed. The people of this civiliazation were HAPPY to be sacrificed.
[http://en.wikipedia.org...]

Organized religion rituals have been around for a long time and still exist today. The Jewish for example...

Bar Mitzvah! This celebrates the entry of a young adult to the Jewish community, still done today. This tradition has been around for 450 years. If one were to ban Organized Religions because they are "evil", Israel communities would lose their tradition, crush their spirits, and cause unhappiness. Ruining culture, is the ultimate evil, not religion.

[https://www.jewishkansascity.org...]

==Rebuttal==
"in that it places all of it's followers and believers under one banner, and on many occasions fails to recognize individual differences in beliefs and opinions."

The community doesn't have to be a country. The goal is to unite people with a common interest. A church, is an establishment of organized religion. If you don't want to go to church, don't go. See what I mean?

"I respect that people with similar beliefs are naturally drawn to one another"

Then like what I said earlier, church.

"as it can brainwash it's followers into the mentality of 'my religion is better than yours'"

Every religion is like that. Even atheists claim they are better. Religious wars like that have been around forever. Ever heard about the crusades? What about the thirty years' war, the Catholics fighting Protestants?
Debate Round No. 1
Messi-09

Pro


You mention that the goal of religion is to unite people with a common interest; however organised religion which usually preaches values such as love, respect and unity is actually one of the leading causes of conflict throughout the world, which you point out, such as the Crusades, Catholics vs Protestants and The Spanish Inquisition.


Religious wars like these not only expose the corruption of many religious organisations such as the Catholic Church, but highlight the loss of life and intolerance that people show to one another due to one factor, religion. In these events people resorted to war, violence and death just to prove their beliefs under the banner of their religion were better than another. People are dying due to conflicting beliefs, and we need to realise that as a society we are all going to have different beliefs and it is not worth fighting over. Look how society has evolved throughout history and what is built on, such as the economy, government, education, jobs and now religion to name a few. Take organised religion away from this list, and you cannot say that society would be worse.


I would also like to clarify that I am not an atheist, instead I believe in God, but my view of what God is maybe different to what the person next to me believes in. I see God as having a unique personal connection with all of us, someone we can talk to in a time of need. However it is UNIQUE and organised religion does not encourage this, but instead encourages its followers to simply believe everything they learn, while suppressing individuality and anyone who speaks out.


I also recognise that these fundamentalists are the minority, and that there are plenty of normal people who go to church and that is their choice, but I believe our society would be better off without the presence of unnecessary conflicts over hypothetical beliefs, which should stay personal and unique to each person.


funnycn

Con

==Rebuttal==

"however organised religion which usually preaches values such as love, respect and unity is actually one of the leading causes of conflict throughout the world, which you point out, such as the Crusades, Catholics vs Protestants and The Spanish Inquisition."

So I guess we can't use religious wars on either side of our argument.

"Religious wars like these not only expose the corruption of many religious organisations such as the Catholic Church"

Corruption "dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people "

[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Is the church really dishonest and illegal? It is legal in most if not all countries.

"People are dying due to conflicting beliefs, and we need to realise that as a society we are all going to have different beliefs and it is not worth fighting over."

What about the people who are NOT fighting? They're peaceful, so why try to ruin it for them?
Debate Round No. 2
Messi-09

Pro

Using the Catholic Church as example, the long allegations of child abuse and the subsequent cover ups is corruption. If some (but not all priests) using their position of power to abuse vulnerable children and at the same time betraying any trust in the relationship, only for the Church to cover it up isn't corruption, the then I don"t know what is. However this is a completely different issue so I"ll save it for another time.
Now back to the topic, I"d like to clarify that I am not advocating the banning of organised religion and the abolishment of hundreds of years of culture and tradition; however I am arguing that this has led to many of the unnecessary conflicts in our society today.
My main grievance about organised religion is how it simply creates violent conflict and division, as followers are all expected to live by the beliefs of their religion (usually taught at a young age in school). Instead I wish that it was left open to our own interpretation, and that every individual has their own unique and personal connection to their god. For example, the Catholic Church and many other religions fail to recognize gay marriage, despite an overwhelming number of Catholics supporting gay marriage, and it is this issue that also highlights conflicting views within a religious group itself. Another example is the Islamic fundamentalists, who make up the minority of Muslims. In fact many Muslims have actually spoken out against these Fundamentalists and have criticized their extreme and often violent actions. How can organised religion work when within these groups we have major conflicts of interest, morals and core beliefs?
Organised religion has created many divisions and conflicts in our society throughout history, however looking back, is terrorism, violence and wars worth it over a simple conflict in hypothetical beliefs? There are so many other real world problems right now that need solving, but are being ignored due religious conflicts over people"s interpretation of what "God" is. Being shoehorned into a set of beliefs because you are simply a follower of that group also prevents individuality and instead leads to labeling, and in the unfortunate case of the Muslim community, stigmatization after 9/11.
I am tired of people using religion as a means to justify heinous actions because their God told them to do so, which develops through the mentality I mentioned before: "my religion is better than yours." This develops primarily through the strength in numbers found in a group and it is the main reason why organised religion is at the core of many problems in society.
To summarize, organised religion often preaches love and tolerance, but instead breeds chaos and conflict.

"I'm not into organized religion. I'm into believing in a higher source of creation, realizing we're all just part of nature."

Neil Young
funnycn

Con

==Rebuttal==

"the long allegations of child abuse"

Too bad you didn't provide a source to prove it.

"however I am arguing that this has led to many of the unnecessary conflicts in our society today."

Your arguments and claims have caused "unnecessary" conflicts. When two sides of something disagree, conflicts will occur. No conflict is pointless or unnecessary.

"My main grievance about organised religion is how it simply creates violent conflict and division"

My main grievance about labor unions is the fact how it simply creates violent conflict and division. My main point here is any conflict will create, or has the possibility to create, violence and/or division. However, they can also create peace and unity. Organized religion is one.

"Instead I wish that it was left open to our own interpretation"

Many churches allow your own interpretation. I believe it is the Lutheran church(es) that allow(s) it.

"Organised religion has created many divisions and conflicts in our society throughout history"

As mentioned earlier, they also create unity and peace.

==Conclusion==

Organized religion is.

"in which belief systems and rituals are systematically arranged and formally established"
[http://en.wikipedia.org......]

How it's arranged AND where depends on it's effectiveness. Places in the middle east
are fine with organized religions (Islam and other Arabic beliefs). Even America(including the colonies) for a long time was under influence of organized religion.

As early as 5,000 years, organized religions have existed. In the Mayan civilizations, the people of the tribe had worshipped deities in a formally established system involving rituals, such as removing one's heart and offering it to the Sun God. The people were fine with it. It was practiced as early as the classic period.
[http://en.wikipedia.org......]

In Egypt, similar sacrifices were done as well. One king, had voluntarily given up his life.

In Pre-Columbian America, there is hardcore evidence of voluntary sacrifice. Marcos de Niza had wrote "they of this valley cast lots whose luck (honour) it shall be to be sacrificed"

Or in other words, it was a great honor to be sacrificed. The people of this civilization were HAPPY to be sacrificed.
[http://en.wikipedia.org......]

Organized religion rituals have been around for a long time and still exist today. The Jewish for example...

Bar Mitzvah! This celebrates the entry of a young adult to the Jewish community, still done today. This tradition has been around for 450 years. If one were to ban Organized Religions because they are "evil", Israel communities would lose their tradition, crush their spirits, and cause unhappiness. Ruining culture, is the ultimate evil, not religion.

[https://www.jewishkansascity.org......]

Organized religion creates, or has the possibility to create, peace and unity. Some countries are great with organized religion. Other countries are not. Regardless, churches are well favored and they are organized communities and establishments and are great examples of organized religion.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by assiqt 2 years ago
assiqt
Just think what would happen if there was a president who had the courage and conviction in his belief to publicly state he was a humanist/Muslim/atheist/free thinker
Posted by Atmas 2 years ago
Atmas
We blame the religion for making those people close minded. Your average atheist is only going to go after a handful of religions because it is those that indoctrinate children and make them believe false information that distorts their reality. Those children will grow up with those beliefs and have a better chance at doing something... dumb... than a child who was not exposed to that corrupted world view. Yes, there are moderates in every religion, but moderates are by definition non-confrontational and won't have nearly the same amount of influence as their fundamentalist screaming cousins. Plus, the religions that are attacked have quite a few inherent problems in their core beliefs that cause havoc in our society, like killing those who don't believe or claiming that gays and women should be hated and subjugated just because their "god" told them too. Whether or not a person in a religion chooses to follow those teachings doesn't change the fact that those teachings are there, and some moron will inevitably take the teachings to be literal and become a living example of why bronze age religions (and any modern day equivalents... I'm looking at you mormons) don't work anymore in this day and age. I think all the religious texts need to be revised and updated to actually represent the peace and morals that the religious so often lay claim to.
Posted by Mussab 2 years ago
Mussab
I hate it when Atheists blame the religion and not the close-minded people to suit their agenda. It's annoying and childish, it's like saying "I killed him because the Devil told me." You fail to recognize that it's only a minority (that even exists in Atheism) that have this mindset. Religion or no religion, the same results. So instead of blaming the religion, maybe you should actually blame the close-minded people.
Posted by funnycn 2 years ago
funnycn
It will be a challenge but eh.
Posted by Atmas 2 years ago
Atmas
Versus it's overall negative effects. It works in wild nature, sure, but now that we've grown as a species, it has become a detriment as it leads to things like war. Still, it's not my debate, I'm just watching.
Posted by funnycn 2 years ago
funnycn
It's not so hard. Pull out the facts and how good it was in history.
Posted by Atmas 2 years ago
Atmas
I don't disagree and I couldn't produce good enough arguments to be a Con, but I want to watch this debate and see how it plays out. Organized religion comes from our inherent tribal nature to stick together and work toward one goal, whether that goal is good or bad. So Con has to defend the nature of tribalism, which is a difficult thing to do.
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