The Instigator
Finalfan
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ConservativePolitico
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Original Sin

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after 1 vote the winner is...
ConservativePolitico
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/8/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 816 times Debate No: 34598
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

Finalfan

Con

Help me out with this one! Original Sin spawns from Adams disobedience in the garden of Eden. This lets original sin "out of the box"??? Anyways, my understanding is that the central pillar to Christianity is that Jesus was sacrificed to "Put Original Sin Back in the Box"??? Tell me if I have it wrong... So here's the thing I, like most people accept Evolution as an explanation for human existence (Not Adam and Eve) In fact a good percentage of Christians accept evolution and still believe the resurrection myth! Where does Original Sin Come into Evolution and Why did Jesus have to die for it? One last question that has been pondering.. How is original sin different from base level animal "Sin"? (You know.. we suppress the animal urge to "sin" so we can nurture our civilization!)

So unless my debate topic isn't clear, If you are a Christian that's had the same thoughts as me... how did you move past it? (Is faith truly your only tool?)

or if you are a Christian fundamentalist that believes in a 5000 year old earth, feel free to accept my challenge!
ConservativePolitico

Pro

A. Original Sin

I. Biblical
The Biblical account of Original Sin says that the Serpent tricked Adam and Eve into disobeying God. Sin is simply the disobedience of God's will and therefore, this was the first account of sin. Once the sin took place, man could never go back to their place of innocence in the world and thus was tarnished forever. Sin begot sin and men began to sin more frequently until it became a part of them.

II. Evolution
Evolution does not have to contradict the idea of Original Sin. Christians who adhere to the belief of evolution do so with the idea that God was the guiding force behind evolution. There could still be an Adam and Eve instance where the first anatomically modern humans went against the will of God and sinned. For there to be sin, there has to be the Original Sin, whether that be Biblical or evolutionary.

B. Jesus and Sin

As I pointed out, for there to be modern sin there must have been Original Sin in some form. Jesus did not just die for the idea of original sin but rather died for the forgiveness of ALL sins stemming all the way back from the original sin. Jesus died to cleanse all sins. Evolution, Adam and Eve etc have no bearing on the universally accepted fact in the Christian world that sin exists and that we need divine forgiveness from it.

C. "Animal Sin"

Simply put, animals do not sin. God created man to be in his image and since we are created in His image, with the ability to reason and tell Good from Evil we are held to a higher standard. Since we have been told by God what is good and what is not and we have the cognitive ability to decipher these commands we have the ability to violate them and therefore sin. In a similar way that secularists don't hold animals to modern human moral systems, neither do Christians expect animals to sin. Only humans were tarnished by Satan due to our elevated status as made in God's image.

Therefore, the idea of Original Sin is steadfast and compatible with the Christian doctrine.
Debate Round No. 1
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
ConservativePolitico

Pro

Extend arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
Basically I just learned about the story of original sin! The stories I have been told about the subject was not convoluted like the "real" story!
Posted by CanWeKnow 3 years ago
CanWeKnow
Too Long, Didn't Read. Can't you distill the concept down to less than 6k characters?
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
I don't understand why it is a complicated answer. Seems alot simpler that your answer to Original Sin!
Posted by Finalfan 3 years ago
Finalfan
Thanks for clearing that up because that is what I have been told by almost every Christian that has talked about the Original Sin story! Original Sin was supposedly at the core of Jesus's crucifixion!
Posted by gordonjames 3 years ago
gordonjames
PART 2

It (God's plan) seems more complicated than most people are willing to accept.
Rev 21:24 tells how the nations (outside this city) will bring their treasures to this city.
Rev 22:14 says "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city."

This gives the impression that some live outside the city, and come in from time to time, while others live in that city.

Quick recap
God prepared a garden for us - we choose sin and consequences.
We lost access to the tree of life.
God is preparing a new city for those who choose Jesus.
We have access again to the tree of life.

SO when you say
"Jesus was sacrificed to 'Put Original Sin Back in the Box' "
I think you misread all of Christian teaching. Christianity is about relationship with God.
Time and time again we see the same story :
God reaches out to his creation with love.
People reject God, his plan and his love for them because of pride and rebellion.
God offers something of value as a sacrifice to show how valuable you are to him.
(first, sheep, rams & goats that He created could be used
then His only son, once and for all)
Some accept His love for them and call on God for help and mercy.
(mercy is not so much about punishment, but about rescue from consequences)

part 3 will address next comments
Posted by gordonjames 3 years ago
gordonjames
Hi
I want to respond to what I consider your misunderstanding of round 1.

Original sin - This is a Roman Catholic concept that they have defines as . . .
"Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam." - Catholic Encyclopedia - http://www.newadvent.org...

The early opponents to this theory include Theodorus of Mopsuestia, denying that the sin of Adam was the origin of death.

If you read the first 4 chapters of Genesis you get this picture
God created - Genesis 1
God created mankind and placed them in a specially prepared garden. - Genesis 2:8; 15
The had access to the tree of life (so they would not die) - Genesis 2:9
They had access to the forbidden fruit (the knowledge of Good and evil)

NOTE - Sin (rebellion against God) was already at work in the devil and some angels.

When tempted the chose disobedience to God (sin) - Genesis 3
God banished them from the garden (and from the tree of life)
so they eventually die(without access to the tree of life). Gen 3:23-24

Genesis 4 tell of the first human births and deaths,
It also tells that people began to call on God Genesis 4:26

Now we fast forward to the end of the book.
Revelation 21 tells of God creating a new heaven and a new earth.
This time the focus is not a garden for 2 people
(Note - The first biblical command to have sex. That is a good deal - Gen 1:28)
It is a city (New Jerusalem) for many people. Rev 21:10ff

The results of sin are gone (He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away Rev 21:4)

We have access to the river of life and at least two trees of life.
Those who serve Him will live forever.
Posted by CanWeKnow 3 years ago
CanWeKnow
I always understood it that Jesus Christ atoned for our sins in garden of Gethsemane. This doesn't have to mean that he put "original sin" back into it's "box". That's just making things complicated. He took on all of humanity's past, present, and future sins in order for us to come unto God. This is what I was taught when I was still going to Church.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by YYW 3 years ago
YYW
FinalfanConservativePoliticoTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF