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Orthodox Christians become a Muslim

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/21/2012 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,727 times Debate No: 27407
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Scientific facts:
Embryology in The Qur"an " (Quran 23:12-14)
The Big Bang Theory " (Quran 21:30)
The Expansion of the universe " (Quran 51:47)

Given to an Unlettered Prophet (Qur"an 7:157)
The book was given to a man who could not read or write (How do we know that? Because it says so in the Qur"an and his enemies never called him a liar).

Has remained unchanged
The book has remained unchanged for 1400 years- See for yourself in the British Library!
"It is We who have sent down the Dhikr (Qur"an) and surely We will preserve it" (Quran15:9)

I wanna ask you something.
"Do you believe that Jesus is God or that Jesus was sent by God?"
Most Christians will say
"He was sent by God"
But "There"s only one religion that says Jesus was sent by Almighty God do they know
which religion it is? "
Then you'll say "Christianity"
But I notice that Christianity says that Jesus is God rather than sent by God.
Because the Christians say- "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit." "
Would agree that Christianity says this? but you don"t believe that Jesus is God.
Therefore your belief about Jesus is the same as Islam and you are closer to Islam.

the Attributes of God, "All-Mighty", "All Knowing", Eternal, Independent.

God is All-Knowing... Jesus (PBUH) was not.
etc: Speaking of the last day Jesus said "But of That Day or That Hour knows no man, neither the angels, nor the son, but only the father" (Mark 13:32)

God is All-Mighty" Jesus (PBUH) was not.
example: "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge, and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will, but the will of Him who sent me" (John 5:30)

God doesn"t pray to anyone " Jesus (PBUH) did
example: "And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face (sujud) and prayed." (Matt 26:39)

Jesus never said "I am God, worship me."

All Prophets Prayed As Muslims Do

Wudhu: Moses and Aaron: "And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat: when they went into the tent of the congregation and when they came near unto the altar, they washed, as the lord commanded Moses." (Exodus 40:31-32) BIBLE

Many Prophets prostrated - Sujood
Jesus " Matthew 26:39
Elijah " I Kings 18:42
Moses and Aaron " Numbers 20:6
Abraham - Genesis 17:3

Prove The Bible Contradicts Scientific Facts and Logic

Morning and evening created 2nd day- Gen 1:6-8
Earth created 3rd day " Gen 1:10
Sun created fourth day " Gen 1:14-19

Bible: God rested on the 7th day (Gen 2:2, 3 and Exodus 31:17) (refreshed)
Logic: God never gets tired (Qur"an 2:225) neither sleep nor slumber overtakes him.

Bible: Mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds- Matt 13:31-32
Science: Seed of the Orchid flower is smaller than the Mustard seed.
Similarity with Islam did.
"Jesus prayed by putting his head on the ground (garden of Gethsemane)
"Jesus had a beard
"Jesus ate kosher= Halal food - never ate pork
"Mary covered her hair all the time - just as Muslims do JW only cover in their churches (kingdom Halls)

I can prove that God"s name is Allah.
a)Alleluia, which is used in the Bible by angels to praise God, is a corruption of Allah-hu-yah
Alleluia = Allah-hu-yah (from Ahmed Deedat)
b)Jesus on the cross, said 'Aly Aly lema sabakhtani' which is 'My God My God, why have you forsaken me' - he did not use the word Jehovah' for God, or 'Abi' which is father.

Aly is closer to illahi/Allah which means My God or Deity to be worshipped.

The translation of surah Al Ikhlas:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him. (chapter 112)

This is the 1400 years book spoke.

1) "Allah is the light of the heavens and the Earth. The metaphor of His light is that of a 'niche in which is a lamp', the lamp inside a glass, the glass like a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east nor of the west, its oil all but giving off light even if no fire touches it. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whoever He wills and Allah makes metaphors for mankind and Allah has knowledge of all things". (Surat an-Nur, 35)

The term "a niche in which is a lamp" in the verse may be interpreted as the niche being the area of gravitational lens effect of a black hole. (Allah knows the truth.) It is significant that in describing the effect that arises, NASA scientists use the analogy of the effect of a drinking glass:

The gravitational effect of the galaxy on the distant quasar was similar to the lens effect of a drinking glass on a distant street light " it created multiple images lenses here too.3

In his book The Whole Shebang, regarded as one of the leading books of the 20th century by the New York Times, the science writer Timothy Ferris clarifies the subject as follows:

As light from a Quasar travels towards us" it may pass through either side of an intervening cluster of galaxies. The warped space surrounding the cluster can act as a lens, with a result that we see two images of what is (or was) actually one quasar.4

2) Curse man for his ingratitude! From what thing did He create him? From a drop of sperm He created him and proportioned him. Then He eases the way for him. (Qur'an, 80:17-20)

"Then He eases the way for him." (Qur'an, 80:20) However, it has been possible today to determine these physiological changes-which Allah informed us of 1,400 years ago-only with the use of a number of technological devices.


(1) The Quar"an confirms the Bible as Accurate
Muslim means "One who surrenders to God;" I believe all true Christians surrender to God. If they didn"t they wouldn"t be Christians. Part of surrendering to God means accepting the truth of the Scriptures. Interestingly, the Quar"an tell us that it was written to confirm these Scriptures which came before it. One is alluded to in the fifth Sura, Al-Ma"ida [The Table], in verses"43 and 44. There, we read: "How will they come to you for judgement, when they already have the Torah which enshrines Allah"s own judgement? Soon after they are bound to ignore you: they are no true believers. There is guidance, and there is light, in the Torah which We have revealed." Hence, the Torah, the writings of Moses, are referred to in the Qur"an as the Word of God. Again, we read in the Qur"an: "Your Lord is best aware of all who dwell in heaven and earth. We have exalted some prophets above others. To David We gave the Psalms." (Sura"17, Al-Isra" [The Night Journey], verse"55) The third writing referred to in the Quar"an is the Gospel at Sura"5, Al-Ma"ida [The Table], verses"46,"47.

In the Qur"an the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel are time and again shown to be God"s Word. In the one hundred fourteen Suras, or chapters, of the Qur"an, at least sixty-two verses point out that these three writings come from God. And at least twelve other verses say that the Qur"an was written for the purpose of confirming these books. Here are some of these verses. "Children of Israel .".". Have faith in My revelations, which confirm your Scriptures." (Sura"2, Al-Baqara [The Cow], verse"41) "A Book confirming their own has come to them from Allah." (Sura"2, Al-Baqara [The Cow], verse"89) "When it is said to them: "Believe in what Allah has revealed," they reply: "We believe in what was revealed to us." But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is the truth, corroborating their own scriptures." (Sura"2, Al-Baqara [The Cow], verse"91) "He has revealed to you the Book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel for the guidance of men, and the distinction between right and wrong." (Sura"3, Al-Imran [The Imrans], verses"3, 4 "What We have revealed to you in the Book is the truth confirming previous scriptures.""Sura"35, Al-Fatir [The Creator], verse"31. So the Quar"an directs all who submit to God to the Torah, Psalms and Gospel which we have in the Bible, and advises them to follow and accept these.

(2) The Gospels are more Historically Accurate than Quar"an regarding Jesus
If Muslims trust the Quar"an, they should trust the Bible record regarding the fact that Jesus died on the cross (Matt 16:21; 17:22-23; John 19:17-19) and was the Son of God (Luke 1:26-32; John 20:31-32; Matthew 3:16-17; 16:16-17), because as shown above the Quar"an vindicates the Bible as God"s word. But more than that, both records appeal to divine inspiration, so we can"t settle accuracy on those grounds, that"s why we look to historical evidence, and when we do we find the Gospels" account of Jesus death is supported by 1st century historians Josephus and Tacitus, both of whom were close enough to Jesus to know the truth. Josephus actually was a contemporary of Jesus. (The Annals, by Tacitus, Book XV. 44; Loeb edition, 1981, Vol. V, p. 283; Jewish Antiquities, by Flavius Josephus, Book 18, Chapter 3, paragraphs 1-5, The New Complete Works of Josephus) We have no historical documentation to confirm the Quar"an account of what happened instead of the crucifixion. The Quar"an itself wasn"t written until around 610 CE, while the Gospels we written, some by eyewitnesses to Jesus, others by contemporaries who got their information from the eyewitnesses to Jesus. (Luke 1:1-4; 1 John 1:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:3-6; John 21:24; 2 Peter 1:12-18) Early church fathers like Clement the bishop of Rome from 88-99 AD, Ignatius (35-107 AD) and many others quote from the New Testament, placing them all firmly within the lifetime of the eyewitnesses. Now which is more likely to be correct? The Quar"an account written over 500 years after the facts by a non-witness, or the Gospels written down while the eyewitnesses were still alive?

(3) Christianity is more Authentic then Islam
Jesus, the founder of our Christian faith had many miracles to prove he was of God. (Matt 1:19-25; Mark 2:6-8; Matt 3:14-17) So did his disciples. (Acts 20:8-12; Matt 10:1-8) Muhammad, however, came with no supernatural proofs of his divine commission. (Sura 17:89-93; 21:5, 6). In view of the many signs the previous prophets like Moses and Jesus performed, did his listeners not have a right to ask: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord"? (Sura 6:37; 13:7, Ali) What is faith without proof? Anyone could claim to be sent of God. Moses and Christ proved it by the performance of many miracles, but where were Muhammad's miracles? He confessed in the Quran to having none. (Suras 2:118; 10:38; 11:13; 6:109) Plainly it quotes God as saying, "We refrain from sending Signs, only because men of former years treated them as false." (Sura 17:59, Ali) That doesn"t allow for any miracles. Bible writers proved they were of God, so did Jesus, Muhammad didn't.

(4) Muhammad Spoke words of Satan
A prophet must speak only what God commands. (Deu 18:20) Jesus obeyed this, but Muhammad is known to have spoken words of Satan exalting pagan idols. Then he prostrated himself in the Mosque among idol worshipers, confirming the satanic words that he brought forth. Sura 53:19-20 contains two phrases Muhammad spoke that are credited to Allah: "Have you considered Al-Lat and Al-Uzza and Manat, the other third?" As Muhammad meditated on this, Satan put upon his tongue and he proclaimed: "these are the exalted Gharaniq whose intercession is approved." Muhammad could not distinguish between the voice of Allah and the voice of Satan. Jibril laterr came to Muhammad and explained that he spoke what Allah did not command. Finally, Allah annulled what Satan had given Muhammad, and established in its place Sura 53:21, 22 and 23 that are in the Qur'an today. For this reason the so-called "satanic verses" that Muhammad declared on behalf of other gods are not in the Qur'an but can be found in Ibn Ishaq's Sira, The Life of Muhammad, a book Muslims revere.

(5) Islam has a Morally Inferior Concept of God
Being all-loving, God is the highest standard of love. Yet, the Qur'an minimizes God's love for mankind. It says: "Allah loveth not transgressors" [la uhibb al-mua'tadeen] (Sura 2:190) "Allah loves [hubb] not those who do mischief." [al-mufasideen] (Sura 28:77) "Allah loveth [hubb] not those who reject Faith. [al kafireen] (Sura 3:32) "Allah loveth [hubb] not those who do wrong." [ad-dalemeen] (Sura 3:57) "Allah loveth [hubb] not any arrogant boaster. [kul mkhtal fkhur] (Sura 31:18) This view holds that God only loves those who do good, that we must earn God"s love. This contradicts the previous prophets, for Jesus told us to love our enemies and pray for them. (Matt 5:44) It also makes it look like one can actually deserve God"s love. The Quar"an denies that God loves the very people he claims to love so much, that he sent his Son to die for them. (John 3:16)

Now that I"ve outlined my case, let me begin to address Con"s argument. He appeals to scientific facts as proof of the Koran"s superiority. He cites the expansion of the universe, but the stretching out of the heavens is also found in the Bible. (Isa 40:22) The fact that all matter comes from energy is also found in the Bible. (Isa 40:26) But the Bible isn"t primarily a science book, but a manual for human living and relationship with God, so I see no reason why it ought to focus heavily on science. Is Con therefore saying that the abundance of scientific knowledge in science books makes them more true than the Quar"an? If so, he must accept evolution which is taught therein.
Debate Round No. 1


beelabeela forfeited this round.


"Given to an Unlettered Prophet (Qur"an 7:157)"(How do we know that? Because it says so in the Qur"an and his enemies never called him a liar)."

Jesus was the Son of God who died on the cross. (Matt 16:21; 17:22-23; Luke 24:19-27, 44-46) How do we know that? Because Jesus said so and his enemies never denied this. So the same type of logic used to prove the Quar"an also proves Christian doctrine, yet, Muslims deny these teachings. Double standard?

Con says the Quar"an "Has remained unchanged," so has the Bible: "After those prophets We sent forth Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the Torah already revealed, and gave him the Gospel, in which there is guidance and light, corroborating that which was revealed before it in the Torah, a guide and an admonition to the righteous. Therefore let the followers of the Gospel judge in accordance with what Allah has revealed therein. Evil-doers are those that do not base their judgements on Allah's revelations." (Sura 5, Al-Ma'ida [The Table], verses 46, 47) If, at the time these words were written, the Bible had already been corrupted, believers in the Gospel could not judge in accordance with what Allah had revealed therein. Therefore the Bible was uncorrupted at the time the Qur'an was written (7th century C.E.). Would Allah tell us to trust a corrupted book?

We have today in our possession 5,300 known Greek manuscripts of the New Testament, another 10,000 Latin Vulgates, and 9,300 other early versions (MSS), giving us more than 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today! (taken from McDowell's Evidence That demands a Verdict, vol.1, 1972 pgs.40-48; and Time, January 23, 1995, pg.57) With such a wealth of manuscripts we can delineate what the originals said. It is evident from a comparison of ancient manuscripts in the original languages that the Bible hasn"t changed.

Allah promises that it is impossible for anyone to alter his word. He says: "None can change the decrees of Allah." (Sura 6, Al-An"am (Cattle), verse 34) This agrees with what Jesus said: "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law." (Matt 5:18) And the prophets before him, for example Isaiah: "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever." (also see 1 Peter 1:25) So the claim that the Torah, Pslams and Gospel were corrupted is actually a claim that Allah was unable to keep his promise which he gave through his prophets to preserve his word. Now if he couldn"t preserve the Bible how will he preserve the Quar"an? "He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel for the guidance of men, and the distinction between right and wrong." (Sura"3, Al-Imran [The Imrans], verses"3, 4. That ought to settle the point that Allah considers the Bible reliable, do you?

Was Jesus God, or sent by God? He was both. He accepted worship (Matt 28:9), and worship belongs to God alone. (Matt 4:10) When Thomas called him "my Lord and my God" Jesus blessed this profession of faith. (John 20:28-29) Isaiah prophesied he would be God. (Isaiah 9:6) So if Con denies Jesus" divinity, he is contradicting the previous prophets and their Scriptures, the very Scriptures the Quar"an tells him to accept as the word of God.

He goes to Mark 13:32 to prove that Jesus is not all-knowing, which means he accepts Mark"s Gospel as a reliable source of information about Jesus. Mark also says Jesus was crucified and was the Son of God (Mark 14:61-62; 15:24). Muslims deny these doctrines, so we can see the bias in how they cherry-pick the Gospels to prove their point. Mark 13:32 puts Jesus on an ascending scale above every human and angel, second only to the Father. As a man, Jesus was limited in knowledge, but as God, he knew all things. "Now we know that you know all things." (John 16:30; 21:17) Jesus could even read hearts. (Mark 2:6-8) He was born of a woman (Matt 1:23-25) yet existed before Abraham (John 8:57-58); so God is a being that can occupy two radically different positions at the same time. He experienced both natures. This isn"t surprising for nothing is impossible for God. (Matt 19:26)

Con uses John 5:30 to prove Jesus isn"t almighty, but does he obey John 5:23? Does he honor the Son just as he honors the Father? Jesus commanded this; but we can"t honor them both the same is one is given worship and not the other. If Jesus is God, we"d expect that he can"t act independently of God the Father, which is the point of John 5:30. Con cherry-picks Bible verses about Jesus" human nature, and ignores all those about his divine nature such as John 1:1-3, 10, 18, 34; 17:5; Acts 20:28 etc.

Con uses Exodus 40:31-32 but in verse 1 God"s name isn"t Allah, it is Yahweh (Jehovah). Muslims have abandoned this name of God, Christians haven"t. Prostrating is a custom of Jewish culture, but all believers are not commanded to do so. Con claims the Bible contains contradictions, has he not read the many contradictions in the Quar"an? Sura 4:157, 158 reads (in part): "For of a surety they killed him [Jesus] not:"Nay, God raised him up unto himself." (Ali) But Sura 3:55 plainly states, according to the original Arabic and Sale"s version: "When God said, O Jesus, verily I will cause thee to die, and I will take thee up unto me." The Arabic is muta-waffiika meaning "cause you to die." And again Jesus says he will die in Sura 19:16-38.

Sura 2, verse 285 (Rodwell): "We make no distinction between any of His Apostles," whereas in verse 254 of the same sura we are told, "Some of the Apostles have we endowed more highly than others." Another discrepancy regards the kebla, or direction Muslims should face when praying. On the one hand the Quran states: "The East and the West is God"s: therefore whichever way ye turn, there is the face of God." (Sura 2:109, 172, Rodwell) But we also read: "We have seen thee turning thy face towards every part of heaven: but we will have thee turn to a kebla that will please thee. Turn then thy face towards the sacred Mosque." (Sura 2:139, 144, 145, Rodwell) Is it or is it not vital which direction one faces when praying? The Quran gives contradictory instructions and reasons in support of each. Then again, according to some verses the apostles of Jesus Christ were Muslims (that is, those "who surrender themselves to God") ; and also Abraham: "neither Jew nor Christian; but he was sound in the faith, a Muslim." (Sura 3:60; 5:48, 111, Rodwell) But according to Sura 39:14 (Rodwell), Muhammad was the first Muslim: "SAY: I am bidden to serve God with a sincere worship: and I am bidden to be the first of those who surrender themselves to him, (Muslims)." Again, according to Sura 2:59 (Rodwell) salvation is for others besides Muslims, but Sura 3:79; 5:76, 77 say only Muslims will be saved.

What proof did Con give that the Bible"s creation story contradicts science? None. God"s creation rest doesn"t imply that God gets tired, anymore than when "the land had rest from war" (Josh 14:15) implied that the land got tired. In Jesus" day the mustard seed was the tiniest of the seeds commonly sown in Israel. (Mark 4:31) The context was limited to sowing, it wasn"t comparing all the seeds of the world. Con claims Islam is closer to Jesus" faith in how they dressed, but Christians are closer to Jesus in what they believe, i.e. Jesus is the Son of God, and died on the cross for us, baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:19-20) He claims he can prove God"s name is Allah, but God has many names. He is also called Yahweh, "That men may know thou, whose name is Jehovah (Yahweh), you alone are the Most High." (Psalms 83:18)
Debate Round No. 2


Mohummed , the prophet of Islam

You may be an atheist or an agnostic or you may belong to any of the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may have been a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal and social habits happen to be" YOU STILL MUST KNOW THIS MAN!
He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms, established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent his teachings, and he revolutionized the worlds of human thought and human action for all time.His name was Muhammad (peace and blessings of Almighty Creator be upon him)"and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span of twenty-three years.Muhammad (pbuh) was born in Arabia in 570 CE, and when he died at the age of 63, the whole of the Arabian Peninsula had changes from paganism and idol worship to the worship of One God; from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion; from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety; from lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living; from utter moral bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human history has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place before or since.The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all religious personalities of the world." Bernard Shaw said, "if Muhammad (pbuh) were alive today, he would succeed in solving all those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our times." Thomas Carlysle was amazed as to how one man, single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades. Napoleon and Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.Indeed no other human being ever accomplished so much, in such diverse fields of human thought and behavior, in so limited a space of time, as did Muhammad (pbuh). He was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, a political thinker, a military genius, an administrative colossus, a faithful friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father"all in one.No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in any of these difficult departments of life.The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one-sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields, such as religious thought or military leadership. None of the other great leaders of the world ever combined within himself so many different qualities to such an amazing level of perfection as did Muhammad (pbuh).The lives and teachings of other great personalities of the world are shrouded in the mist of time. There is so much speculation about the time and the place of their birth, the mode and style of their life, the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity today to reconstruct accurately and precisely the lives and teachings of those men.Not so this man Muhammad (pbuh).

Not only was he born in the fullest blaze of recorded history, but every detail of his private and public life, of his actions and utterances, has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to our day. The authenticity of the information so preserved is vouched for not only by faithful followers but also by unbiased critics and open-minded scholars.At the level of ideas there is no system of thought and belief"secular or religious, social or political "which could surpass or equal ISLAM"the system which Muhammad (pbuh) propounded. In a fast-changing world, while other systems have undergone profound transformations, Islam alone has remained above all change and mutation, and retained its original form for the past 1400 years. What is more, the positive changes that are taking place in the world of human thought and behavior truly and consistently reflect the healthy influence of Islam in these areas.It is not given to the best of thinkers to put their ideas completely into practice, and to see the seeds of their labors grow and bear fruit in their own lifetime. Except of course, Muhammad (pbuh), who not only preached the most wonderful ideas but also successfully translated each one of them into practice. At the time of his death his teachings were not mere precepts and ideas straining for fulfillment. They had become the very core of the life of tens of thousands of perfectly trained individuals. At what other time or place and in relation to what other political, social, religious system, philosophy or ideology"did the world ever witness such a perfectly amazing phenomenon? Except of course, ISLAM, which was established as a complete way of life by Muhammad (pbuh)himself. History bears testimony to this fact and the greatest skeptics have no option but to concede this point.In spite of the phenomenal success which crowned his efforts, he did not for a moment claim to be God or God's incarnation or Son "but only a human being who was chosen and ordained by the Creator to be a teacher of truth to mankind and a complete model and pattern for their actions.He was a man with a noble and exalted mission "and his unique mission was to unite humanity in the worship of the One and only God and to teach them the way to honest and upright living in accordance with the laws and commands of God. He always described himself as a Messenger and servant of God, as indeed every single action and movement of his proclaimed him to be.A world which has not hesitated to raise to Divinity individuals whose very lives and missions have been lost in legend and who, historically speaking, did not accomplish half as much"or even one tenth"as was accomplished by Muhammad (pbuh), should stop to take serious note of this remarkable man's claim to be God's messenger to mankind.Today, after the lapse of some 1400 years, the life and teachings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation. Today they offer the same undying hope for treating mankind's many ills which they did when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was alive. This is our honest claim and this is the inescapable conclusion forced upon us by a critical and unbiased study of history.The least YOU should do as a thinking, sensitive, concerned human being is to stop for one brief moment and ask yourself: Could it be that these statements, extraordinary and revolutionary as they sound, are really true? Supposing they really are true, and you did not know this man Muhammad (pbuh) or hear about his teachings? Or did not know him well and intimately enough to be able to benefit from his guidance and example? Is it not time you responded to this tremendous challenge and made some effort to know him? It will not cost you anything but it may well prove to be the beginning of a completely new era in your life.

Come, let us make a new discovery, the life of this wonderful man Muhammad (pbuh), the like of whom never walked on this earth, and whose example and teachings can change YOUR life and OUR world for the better. May God shower His choicest blessings upon him!


Con believes that Mohammad was "the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this earth." Let"s compare him to Jesus and see if that is true:

(1) Jesus was miraculously born of a virgin (Sura 19, Maryam, verses 16-21; Luke 1:26-38), Mohammad had a natural birth
(2) Jesus performed miracles (Sura 3:49; Matt 1:19-25; Mark 2:6-8; Matt 3:14-17), Muhammad did not (Sura 17:59, 89-93; 21:5, 6; 6:37; 13:7; 2:118; 10:38; 11:13; 6:109)
(3) Jesus never sinned (Heb 7:26; 1 Peter 2:21-22), Mohammad sinned when he gave the satanic verses and engaged in idol worship.
(4) Jesus ascended to heaven and is still alive (Matt 24:51), Mohammad is still dead and buried.
(5) Jesus uttered prophecies that were fulfilled, Mohammad didn"t.

Prophecy: Luke 19:41-44; 21:20,"21: "He [Jesus Christ] viewed the city [Jerusalem] and wept over it, saying: .".". "The days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side, and they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected."" Two days later, he counseled his disciples: "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw." (Prophecy spoken by Jesus Christ in 33"C.E.)

Fulfillment: Jerusalem revolted against Rome, and in 66"C.E. the Roman army under Cestius Gallus attacked the city. But, as Jewish historian Josephus reports, the Roman commander "suddenly called off his men, abandoned hope though he had suffered no reverse, and flying in the face of all reason retired from the City." (Josephus, the Jewish War, Penguin Classics, 1969, p. 167) This provided opportunity for Christians to flee from the city, which they did, moving to Pella, beyond the Jordan, according to Eusebius Pamphilus in his Ecclesiastical History. (Translated by C. F. Crus", London, 1894, p. 75) Then around Passover time of the year 70"C.E. General Titus besieged the city, an encircling fence 4.5 miles (7.2 km) long was erected in just three days, and after five months Jerusalem fell. "Jerusalem itself was systematically destroyed and the Temple left in ruins. Archaeological work shows us today just how effective was the destruction of Jewish buildings all over the land.""The Bible and Archaeology (Grand Rapids, Mich.; 1962), J. A. Thompson, p. 299.

What of Muhammad"s revelation in the Quar"an? Con boasts about its scientific accuracy, let"s see: In sura 18:86 it states, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a people." So the sun was found in a pond? The Bible contains no such nonsense.

Suras 16:15; 21:31; 31:10; 78:6-7; 88:19 tell us that God placed or threw down mountains on the earth like tent pegs to keep the earth from shaking. For pre-scientific man this would sound logical, since mountains are large and therefore, their weight would have seemingly, a stabilizing effect on the earth. Yet we now know this logic to be quite inaccurate. Mountains do not render the earth"s crust stable. In fact, the very existence of mountains is evidence of instability in the earth"s crust, as they are found and pushed up by the colliding of tectonic plates (i.e. the migration of Arabia toward Iran has resulted in the Zagros range, France pushing against Italy produced the Alps, and the Indian plate nudging Tibet has given us the Himalayas).

Sura 18:9-25 tells the story of some youths and a dog who sleep for 309 years with their eyes open and their ears closed. In Suras 2:65-66 and 7:163-167, Allah turns certain fishing people who break the Jewish sabbath into apes. Backward evolution?

Con claims Islam hasn"t changes in 1400 years, but the Quar"an on which it is based certainly has. What are we to do with the many contradictions, the factual errors and bizarre claims it makes? Furthermore, when we look more carefully at the text that we have in our possession today, which is supposedly that of Uthman"s final codification of the Qur"an, compiled by Zaid ibn Thabit, from a copy of Hafsah"s manuscript, we are puzzled by the differences between it and the four co-existing codices of Abdullah Masoud, Abu Musa, and Ubayy, all of which have deviations and deletions between them. So much for Con"s claim the Quar"an hasn"t been changed.

The nation which Con praises Mohammad for creating discriminates against women: The Quar"an says that women can be beaten (or scourged) for not obeying their husbands (Sura 4:34). No privilege of a corresponding nature is reserved for the wife. Men have double the inheritance of women (Sura 4:11,176). In addition to the four wives allowed by law, a Muslim man can have an unlimited number of slave girls as concubines (or sexual partners) according to Sura al-Nisa 4:24-25.

Even paradise creates inequalities for women. Suras 55:56; 56:36 and 78:33 state that paradise is a place where there are beautiful young virgins waiting to serve the "righteous" (Sura 78:31). These virgins, we are told, will have beautiful, big, lustrous eyes (Sura 56:22); they will be Maidens who are chaste, who avert their eyes out of purity (Sura 55:56), and have a delicate pink complexion (Sura 55:58). Nowhere are we told what awaits the Muslim women of this world when they get to paradise. It is therefore not surprising that much of the Muslim world today reflects in its laws and societal makeup such a total bias against women.

Though statistics are hard to find, we do know that currently, of the twenty-three countries with the worst records of jobs for women, seventeen are Muslim countries (Kidron 1991:96-97). Similarly, of the eleven countries with the worst record for disparagement of opportunity between men and women, ten are Muslim states. The widest gaps were found in three Muslim countries: Bangla Desh, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt (Kidron 1991:57). With this kind of data before us we need to ask whether the Qur"an is God"s absolute word for all people for all time, and if so, then why only half of the world"s population (its males) receive full benefit from its laws, while the other half (its women) continue in an unequal relationship? Does not the previous revelation, the Bible, have a more universalistic and wholesome concern for women? Take for instance Ephesians 5:22-25 where we find the true ideal for a relationship, saying: "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her." This scripture demands a sacrificial love by the husband, one which puts the interests of his wife ahead of himself. This sacrificial love is best explained in 1 Corinthians 13:1, 4-8.
Debate Round No. 3
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by AlwaysMoreThanYou 5 years ago

You wrote

'Both have prayer beads.
Pilgrimages to receive blessings from God.'

Those are more superficial than deep similarities.

'Both have Holy Scriptures originated from the same roots.'

Apparently not, as Muslism do not credit the scriptures so declared at the Holy Synods of Hippo, Carthage, and Rome to be inspired.

'Catholicism believes Church and Pope to be the highest order but Islam believes that Allah is the highest order.'

Strawman of Catholicism.

'Quran is compilations made by the Prophet himself; the Bible was compiled by his disciples based on Jesus" teachings.'

Catholics reject that Muhammad was a prophet.

'Catholics believe in the trinity of God, while Islam rejects the existence of trinity, as they believe that Allah is the only God.'

The Trinity is only one God. Also, this is a pretty massive difference.

'God is being referred to as Jehovah, or Yahweh in the Bible, while Muslims believe Allah"s covenant is with Ishmael.'

How is this a similarity?

'Islam praises Allah as the only God. Catholicism praises Jesus, a messiah of God himself, and son of God.'

And God.

'Catholic and Islam have similar practices in prayer, fasting and alms deeds.'

Yeah, but we differ on almost everything theologically speaking. There are no deep theological similarities.
Posted by beelabeela 5 years ago
Torvald, science and Islam do have smilarities.
Posted by Torvald 5 years ago
Beelabeela, can you please stop arguing in the comment section? (And by the way, there is no 'correct religion,' and NASA is science-based, not religiously based; this video is bull.)
Posted by beelabeela 5 years ago
I'm stand for the sake of Allah. I'll never open my debate account if I'm false. Never!
Posted by beelabeela 5 years ago
CONTINUE as long as I remain alive And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.

And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."

That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.

It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is.

[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."

Then the factions differed [concerning Jesus] from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved - from the scene of a tremendous Day.

How [clearly] they will hear and see the Day they come to Us, but the wrongdoers today are in clear error.

And warn them, [O Muhammad], of the Day of Regret, when the matter will be concluded; and [yet], they are in [a state of] heedlessness, and they do not believe.

Indeed, it is We who will inherit the earth and whoever is on it, and to Us they will be returned.

Prophet Isa (Jesus) was not sons of God but Mariam.
Posted by beelabeela 5 years ago
Jesus Christ Son of Mary was the beloved messenger of God (Allah)
Quran mentions about Mary and her son Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) in chapter 19, few verses translated below.
And mention, [O Muhammad], in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.
And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.
She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ."
He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."
She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"
He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' "
So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."
But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.
So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.' "
Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
[Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain ali
Posted by beelabeela 5 years ago
truthseeker613, what i meant from this statement "The book was given to a man who could not read or write (How do we know that? Because it says so in the Qur"an and his enemies never called him a liar)."

is this..

Translation of surah Al ALAQ which means (THE CLOT)

1. Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists),

2. Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).

3. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous,

4. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)],

5. Has taught man that which HE KNEW NOT.
6. Nay! Verily, man does transgress all bounds (in disbelief and evil deed, etc.).

7. Because he considers himself self-sufficient.

8. Surely! Unto your Lord is the return.

9. Have you (O Muhammad ()) seen him (i.e. Abu Jahl) who prevents,

10. A slave (Muhammad ()) when he prays?

11. Tell me, if he (Muhammad ()) is on the guidance (of Allah)?

12. Or enjoins piety?

13. Tell me if he (the disbeliever, Abu Jahl) denies (the truth, i.e. this Qur'an), and turns away?

14. Knows he not that Allah does see (what he does)?

15. Nay! If he (Abu Jahl) ceases not, We will catch him by the forelock,

16. A lying, sinful forelock!

17. Then, let him call upon his council (of helpers),

18. We will call the guards of Hell (to deal with him)!

19. Nay! (O Muhammad ())! Do not obey him (Abu Jahl). Fall prostrate and draw near to Allah!

Quran has remained unchange since 1400 years ago where you can find it in wherever library that possess Quran.
Posted by daley 5 years ago
I hope you will respond to my arguments
Posted by beelabeela 5 years ago
It doesn't mean that Orthodox Christian should never become muslims.
Watch this video.
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