The Instigator
wingnut2280
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
bayluu
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Our education system is fundamentally conradictory

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/1/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,097 times Debate No: 1242
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (7)

 

wingnut2280

Pro

The way our current education system is set up, kids, from jr high through college, are detracted from actually seeking knowledge and learning in order to acquire good marks. This has nothing to do with standards or teachers. At a very fundamental level, students are rewarded for not challenging themselves and receive great award for mastering basic curriculum rather than struggling with more complex systems.

Additionally, honors students are at a fundamental disadvantage. Classes are slowed down for the slowest student, inherently hindering the ability of smarter kids to advance.

I will elaborate upon request, but really needed a decent topic, as I am really bored.
bayluu

Con

In the education systems today, they are set up to help those who are slower, and aid those who are accelerated. In all schools, there are AP, advanced, honors, regular, and remedial classes offered at schools, or at least at a neighboring school. Students can pick what class type they prefer, and also have counselors to direct them to the classes they need. A student chooses their future, not the school.
Debate Round No. 1
wingnut2280

Pro

Maybe my last paragraph distorted my claim.

I'll address it first. Even in AP programs, the slowest student is rewarded with the most attention. The system doesn't give a thought to harnessing the most gifted minds and expnading them to their potential, they are merely concerned with keeping everyone at even par.

Counselors advise what a student needs to graduate and future possibilities. This is true. Students also pick their futures. But, this doesn't change the fact that the future classes that the student picks are going to be beneficial if they are rudementary. It is more practically rewarding for a student to take principle elements of science and cruise to an A, rather than take molecular biology, learn a lot, and take a C. This is the fundamental flaw I was pointing out. More advanced curricula teach you more, but are not chosen because they do not ensure practical rewards (good grades).

I think you miss my claim, and I'm sorry for any part I played in that.
bayluu

Con

bayluu forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
wingnut2280

Pro

To elaborate, I think it is obvious that the present educational system rewards rudementary work and is focused on the bottom student and keeping everyone at par.

While some kids may see the benefits of knowledge and challenge, most kids do not. The kids that do are obviously overcoming the disadvantage that the system puts them in by not playing the standards game and valuing things that, to their specific knowledge, will give them a different, and in my opinion better, reward. Whether or not kids should motivate themselves or challenge themselves is not relfective of the system. In order to inspire or challenge themselves, kids not only have to have the natural desire to, but the courage to fly in the face of the educational system as well. The system not only doesn't help, it makes the things that should be sought after, harder to accomplish.
bayluu

Con

bayluu forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
wingnut2280

Pro

So, our education system is backwards. Kids are motivated by grades, which detracts them from challenge and learning. The small number of kids who realize this, have to go to even greater lengths to overcome the disadvantage that the system puts them at. This inherently proves that our education system works against its very goal. In order for kids to learn optimally, they must risk being overcome by the consequences of the grading system and its impact on their future.
bayluu

Con

bayluu forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Daxitarian 9 years ago
Daxitarian
the problem with public education is that it: 1. assumes there is a set of knowledge that everyone must know. Outside of basic reading, writing, and math, this doesn't seem to be true. 2. That you are supposed to learn by having teachers tell you what you need to know. I think "unschooling" is the best remedy for our current eduction system.
Posted by NonZeroBubble 9 years ago
NonZeroBubble
completely true. %100 agreed. Our school system has gone so far away from its goal. School defiantly not about learning the subjects taught anymore, its all about grades, homework, and being responsible. I think school's least important goal in today's society, is learning and the understand of at least somewhat important subjects. School has transformed from a place to learn to a homework crazy and grade crazy place where there is tons of pressure by parents, teahchers, and everyone around you. The concept of homework is very stupid. We usually spend 7+ hours in school more than 5+ days a week. They need to give us homework??? If we used our time for learning not other unimportant things we wouldn't need to give out homework w/o a purpose just for the sake of the word. All in all i think education has really lost its way.
Posted by GBretz 9 years ago
GBretz
Out of curiosity, what would be your solution, wingnut?
Posted by bfl9000 9 years ago
bfl9000
'The system doesn't give a thought to harnessing the most gifted minds and expnading them to their potential, they are merely concerned with keeping everyone at even par' Very true, and is one of the many downfalls of our education system. But if you truly want to benefit with in a career from your gifted mind, and are slowed down by peers, one of the basic traits you will need to learn is to be a 'self starter.'
-push yourself to think beyond the class topic when your teacher is helping slower students.
-you're only in school for 6-8 hours daily, and if you're bored, you must not spend an inordinate amount of time on homework - work overtime by talking to the teacher after/ before class, develop special projects, even e-mail local university departments and professors in subjects that pique your interest. If you want to utilize your mind in intellectually rigorous pursuits like research and development concepts, you have to motivate yourself, not wait for teachers to do it for you.
-you're comment "I will elaborate upon request, but really needed a decent topic, as I am really bored." proves my point. Yet another aspect in which our school system has failed - to inspire students. Please, learn to inspire yourself.
Posted by ImAPanicBomb447 9 years ago
ImAPanicBomb447
From my experience in looking for colleges, and my grandfather being the vice president of a private university, admissions people in colleges would rather see a harder course attempted with a lower grade, rather than a high GPA in elementary classes.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 9 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
Grades aren't the ultimate practical reward, muneh is, and I think the guy with the C in the advanced class will in the long run learn enough to make the muneh :D.

But yes the present educational system sucks, the solution, like the solution to so many problems, is property rights. Which means, in the end, no schools supported by taxes (i.e. no public schools), and no compulsory education. When grades can't gain the illusion of a uniform standard the government grants them, people will stop going after such things, and start going after actual knowledge, to be measured by objective tests or whatever else the marketplace finds to work.
Posted by katiesunshine 9 years ago
katiesunshine
I agree 100%. Kids don't have a desire to learn things just for the sake of learning. They do what they need to to pass the class and that is as far as it goes. They are not learning to think or challenge themselves.
I am lucky enough to be Home-Schooled. I love learning new things (Which is why I come to places like this) I spend time with kids that are in Public school, many don't have a love for knowledge. It's quite sad. We have so much out there for us to learn.
I take classes that I know I wont do 100% great on, but who cares, I still learn.
I'm not sure what could be done to help that... but I think a lot of it goes back to the Family. Learning should take place everywhere, starting in the Home.
Posted by TeaandScarves 9 years ago
TeaandScarves
As sad as it is wingnut, I believe you are correct. Do you think it can be changed and if so how?
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
wingnut2280bayluuTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
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Vote Placed by NonZeroBubble 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by GBretz 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Logical-Master 9 years ago
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