The Instigator
ghille_in_the_mist
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
blue_charles
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Our government is doing a bad job.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
blue_charles
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/16/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,903 times Debate No: 36759
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

ghille_in_the_mist

Pro

Our government is doing a terrible job. They increase taxes just to spend it on stupid things. They cut military funding. They started two wars in a foreign country costing thousands of American lives just for oil. They make empty promises to get a vote and carry out their own selfish agenda when voted in. They can't seem to get anything done and leave the country vulnerable to numerous attacks that could happen any day. There is no longer a gold standard and we spend pieces of paper and metal with no real value. They constantly lie to us and blast propaganda though the media and would fail to protect us should a disaster happen. They play nice with foreign countries so no ones feelings get hurt. They do not do what they should for this country
blue_charles

Con

I accept Pro's challenge. In this round, I will disprove Pro's first set of arguments. Pro's arguments will be in bold, and my counterarguments will be in regular text.

They increase taxes just to spend it on stupid things.

Under the Obama Administration, taxes paid by Americans have dropped. There was the stimulus, which gave us $289.6 Billion in tax cuts. There was also the 2012 Tax Deal, adding another $800 Billion in tax cuts. And most recently, the payroll tax deal, which extended the payroll tax cut and a few other cuts into 2012.

They cut military funding.

Yes, military funding has been cut under Obama, however, the amount of funding cut is not as drastic as Pro would like us to believe. In the 2014 budget, military spending decreases about 1% from the 2013 budget. This is a perfectly reasonable cut, as all departments of government are facing cuts of this amount, if not more.

They started two wars in a foreign country costing thousands of American lives just for oil.

The Iraq and Afghanistan Wars are part of the larger War on Terror. The War on Terror is, "a global military, political, lawful, and conceptual struggle—targeting both organizations designated as terrorist and regimes accused of supporting them."

They leave the country vulnerable to numerous attacks that could happen any day.

The United States is safer from terrorist threats than ever before. We have heighten security in airports, borders, etc. We have the Department of Homeland Security, who's entire purpose is to protect America from terrorist threats. The main terrorist leadership is shattered and broken, with almost all leaders killed or detained, most notably Bin Laden.

We spend pieces of paper and metal with no real value.

The U.S dollar is one of the world's most valuable currencies. The dollar still retains it value across the globe, where it comes second in power behind the Euro. In most places, the dollar is worth slightly or significantly more than the local currency.

They play nice with foreign countries so no ones feelings get hurt.

What exactly is wrong with being nice to other countries? We can't just go around offending everyone, the U.S has to be a responsible member of the international community, just like any other country.

Sources:
http://www.x-rates.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.dhs.gov...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.washingtonpost.com...
Debate Round No. 1
ghille_in_the_mist

Pro

Maybe the Government doesn't increase taxes, but they still do spend it on stupid things. Most notably 500 Million dollars went to see why five year olds can't sit still. And another 25 Billion a year to government buildings not even in use. Though con would like you to think that spending cuts are small in the military consider this: the army navy marines and air force combined will loose hundreds of thousands of active duty service members. Also 42.7 billion in defense cuts were made in the sequester which is actually 7.9 percent of the overall budget. As far as these wars go, they were partially to protect american oil interest, and still sucked up one and a half trillion dollars. one and a half trillion dollars for some plane crashes and threats. Thats too much. The war should've been over desert storm finished. And dare I mention operation north woods, where it was planned to make a fake attack on US soil for an excuse to have a Cuban intervention? As far as attacks go, it seems you forget the largest problem we have today, power. America is run on electricity that can be taken away in the blink of an eye by an EMP devastating the country and killing a large portion of the population in one year. All we have to do is put power underground, but no one will. Also the DPS is known to have many violations of the law all in the name of "protecting the country". Iran is a serious threat, and russia has just agreed to let them have a nuclear reactor, making them full nuclear capable. They have stated that they would all die if it meant the destruction of Israel and America. Though the US currency has imaginary value, it has no real value since it lost the gold standard. If the US financial system collapsed or America was attacked and hurt, the US currency would be valueless, having no gold value. As far as playing nice goes, we should work in the interest of our country, not the point of backing down to seem polite.
blue_charles

Con

Most notably 500 Million dollars went to see why five year olds can't sit still.

ADHD affects 11% of U.S children, and often hinders their ability to learn, read, and communicate. Research into this field is very good, as it helps children become better adults. Not to mention that the 500 million in research money accounts for only .14% of the Federal Budget, and only 2% of CHIP (The department that fund this kind of research) funding.

Also 42.7 billion in defense cuts were made in the sequester which is actually 7.9 percent of the overall budget.

Pro has misunderstood me. The cuts I was talking about where from the 2013 to 2014 budgets, and had nothing to do with the sequester.

And dare I mention operation north woods, where it was planned to make a fake attack on US soil for an excuse to have a Cuban intervention?

That was in 1962. We are debating the current government and its policies, not the government of 51 years ago.

The wars were partially to protect American oil interest.

If anything, those wars hurt American oil interest by causing chaos in the Middle East. The chaos reduced oil production dramatically. The U.S imported 298 million barrels of oil from Iraq in 2001, but after the intervention, the oil imports have averaged out to about 190 million per year.

One and a half trillion dollars for some plane crashes and threats.

The 1.4 trillion dollars were not spent on "some plane crashes and threats." They were spent on moving millions of U.S soldiers almost half way across the globe, then housing, supplying them with firearms, ammo for firearms, clothing, leaders, transport, and food. That's an expensive thing to do.

An EMP devastating the country and killing a large portion of the population in one year.

It is highly unlikely that a country will make a EMP attack on America, as we have to many allies that won't allow such event to go unchecked. Any country that attempts such an attack would be destroyed as well. No one except North Korea would be crazy enough to do this. And even if North Korea did, it lacks the large scale weapons to take out the entire country.

Iran is a serious threat, and Russia has just agreed to let them have a nuclear reactor, making them full nuclear capable.

Iran has stated multiple times that its nuclear program is merely for power, and hasn't shown evidence otherwise.

Though the US currency has imaginary value, it has no real value since it lost the gold standard.

All currency has imaginary value, its bits of money and paper that we give value to. And as I stated earlier, the U.S currency does have value. I want to know what this mystical "gold standard" that you continue to use as justification for your arguments.

As far as playing nice goes, we should work in the interest of our country, not backing down to seem polite.

We do work for the interests of our country, but we can't go around demanding that every other country does things the way we want them to. Again, we have to be a responsible member of the international community.

Sources:
http://www.digitalsurvivors.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://math.about.com...
http://healthland.time.com...
http://kidshealth.org...

Debate Round No. 2
ghille_in_the_mist

Pro

Con still fails to mention the 25 billion we spend on government buildings that are completely deserted each year. This is an outrageous price. Con has also failed to make a statement on the emptiness of our politicians promises. To list a few of our president's, he promised to eliminate "all oil and gas tax loopholes", "Require publicly traded financial partnerships to pay the corporate income tax", "Close loopholes in the corporate tax deductibility of CEO pay", "Create a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges", and "Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses" (http://www.politifact.com...) none of which he came through on. Empty promises apply to all politicians, not helping the people, but rather saying things to please them and doing what they want. Although ADHD does affect 11% (or 5.2 million) this study was literally only for 5 year olds. They didn't need to be diagnosed with ADHD, they simply needed to act like a five year old. 5 year olds for the most part don't sit still if you observe them. ADHD or not they are still very active especially in a classroom where this test was conducted. If we were to spend 500 million on anything it should be on older children actually diagnosed with ADHD, and especially getting better medicine since 48% of people on ADHD medicine report side effects of difficulty sleeping, loss of appetite, or mood swings. Con has also misunderstood me when I said "they cut military funding" they did, and by a lot, yet con only looks at one type of budget cut not all of them. And though operation north woods took place 52 years ago, it was just one of many declassifies documents that are very old. The government tends to declassify documents when they are no longer needed to be kept extremely secret. Since north woods never happened, it was declassified, and it was declassified just 16 years ago. This document was kept secret for 35 years and it didn't even happen. Think of what the government holds on other things that did happen. The gulf on Tonkin incident also proves that the government lies and tricks us. During this incident the captain of the USS Mattox told his crew to open fire if North Vietnamese vessels came within a set distance. The Mattox fired off three warning shots but claimed that the North Vietnamese attacked first. A battle ensued and all three North Vietnamese vessels were damaged. When the Johnson administration announced the attack, they claimed the North Vietnamese as the aggressors, and claimed that a second battle on August 4th happened, which was completely false. There was no engagement whatsoever on August 4th. This news was not made completely public until 2003. Just another example that the government kept something from us for years. If you don't believe that could happen today look at the recording of AP calls, the IRS scandal, and the NSA scandal. With the two wars, either way it was a bad choice, and if this is true then not only did they spend way too much on them but also hurt America's oil interests. Yes, but millions of soldiers for years is a little much, especially since this is an unconditional war. These wars were not worth the money we spent since we technically didn't even win. Though we did kill Bin Laden, we had been gathering intelligence since the beginning of the wars and could've pulled out long before, but still have killed him using a team deployed by sea. With an EMP, any nuclear capable country can carry out a strike. North Korea does have missiles able to detonate at a high altitude if they were launched from a ship. If a nuclear weapon detonates 250 miles above the US it would completely devastate the entire country. Iran also has capable ICBMs which means as soon as they have a fully developed nuclear program, they could detonate a nuclear weapon at that altitude, and it is an acknowledged fact that we could not stop this launch, since the ICBM is launched from a ship. The ship could stay in international waters and launch off the west coast or from cuba and detonate without us being able to stop it at such a close range. They have also stated they will do anything to destroy the country of Israel, and Iran is know to have an extremely aggressive foreign policy. Also from www.adl.org "Many analysts are also concerned about the possibility of a nuclear weapon arriving in a cargo container at a major US port. Furthermore, a federally mandated commission to study electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attacks noted the vast damage that could be wrought by a single missile with a nuclear warhead, launched from a ship off the US coast, and detonated a couple of hundred miles in the air, high above America." and "in 2002, Iran's covert program was exposed. Since then, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has repeatedly said that it cannot consider Iran's nuclear program as entirely civilian.". Countries lie, no matter what you think. The US currency has value while the US is okay, but if something were to happen, the dollar could become valueless since it has no gold standard. Gold standard is defined by http://www.investopedia.com... as "A monetary system in which a country's government allows its currency unit to be freely converted into fixed amounts of gold and vice versa. The exchange rate under the gold standard monetary system is determined by the economic difference for an ounce of gold between two currencies.". This meant that the American dollar used to actually be worth something in gold. The dollar had Gold to back it up giving it real value. There is no longer a gold standard making this currency worthless. Also America used to put real silver into coinage, but no longer does, again making the money worthless. And even though we of have to be responsible, the interests of this country should come before politeness, even if our actions are frowned upon. The government also does not tell us the truth by media, even though they claim to. And the government still couldn't protect you in the case of disaster, made painfully obvious by hurricane Katrina.
blue_charles

Con

blue_charles forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
ghille_in_the_mist

Pro

ghille_in_the_mist forfeited this round.
blue_charles

Con

I have two things to address before I begin my arguments. Firstly, both Pro and I have forfeited the last round, let's just pretend they never happened. Also, I'd like to ask Pro to use paragraphs or some form of organization in his arguments. It would make it much easier to understand his argument. Now, onto the debate.

Con still fails to mention the 25 billion we spend on government buildings that are completely deserted each year. This is an outrageous price.

I shall now mention it! There are such buildings that aren't in use, but they are not costing taxpayers 25 billion as Con wishes for you to believe. They are only costing $1.6 billion. I ask Pro to out forward the source that gave him this information, otherwise, I'm implied to believe that you are lying bout your information.

They didn't need to be diagnosed with ADHD, they simply needed to act like a five year old.

Pro doesn't understand what ADHD is. ADHD is not just being hyperactive. There are three types of ADHD, the inattentive type, the hyperactive type, and the combined type. The inattentive type doesn't involve running around, which what Pro assumes all ADHD is. Instead, its forgetfulness, and not listening. They were also looking for signs of that kind of ADHD.

And though operation north woods took place 52 years ago, it was just one of many declassifies documents that are very old. Since north woods never happened, it was declassified, and it was declassified just 16 years ago. This document was kept secret for 35 years and it didn't even happen. Think of what the government holds on other things that did happen. The gulf on Tonkin incident also proves that the government lies and tricks us. During this incident the captain of the USS Mattox told his crew to open fire if North Vietnamese vessels came within a set distance. The Mattox fired off three warning shots but claimed that the North Vietnamese attacked first. A battle ensued and all three North Vietnamese vessels were damaged. When the Johnson administration announced the attack, they claimed the North Vietnamese as the aggressors, and claimed that a second battle on August 4th happened, which was completely false. There was no engagement whatsoever on August 4th. This news was not made completely public until 2003. Just another example that the government kept something from us for years.

I don't understand why Pro continues to bring events that conspired decades ago into this debate about the quality of the current government of the United States.

North Korea does have missiles able to detonate at a high altitude if they were launched from a ship.

It is very, very unlikely that North Korea will use nuclear weapons against the United States. Such an action would assure their complete and total destruction, as I said earlier.

These wars were not worth the money we spent since we technically didn't even win.

The War on Terror has been incredibly successful, as I said in Round 1. Plus, you can never truly "win" against something like terrorism, you can only contain it.

This meant that the American dollar used to actually be worth something in gold. There is no longer a gold standard making this currency worthless.

Just because the dollar no longer has a exact value in gold doesn't make it without value. The Euro, which is the most powerful currency out there, doesn't abide by the gold standard, and neither does the majority of currencies. They still have value, and so does the U.S dollar. The break from the gold standard is why we got out of the Great Depression.

America used to put real silver into coinage, but no longer does, again making the money worthless.

I don't think a lack of sliver in our coins is going to spell doom for the whole country. It may reduce the value of the coin, but it won't make it worthless. This is just silly, the government removing silver reduces the price to produce a coin, which saves the government money. Isn't that what you want? For us to have a better budget?

And even though we of have to be responsible, the interests of this country should come before politeness, even if our actions are frowned upon.

Exactly, this is the point I have been trying to argue! You have flipped sides without even realising it!


The government also does not tell us the truth by media, even though they claim to.

The government doesn't control the media. The media is a separate entity from the government.


Sources:
http://mentalfloss.com...
http://kidshealth.org...#
http://washingtonexaminer.com...
Debate Round No. 4
ghille_in_the_mist

Pro

ghille_in_the_mist forfeited this round.
blue_charles

Con

Pro has failed to post his arguments for his final round. Therefore, I have nothing to rebut, vote Con.

Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by bsh1 3 years ago
bsh1
ghille_in_the_mistblue_charlesTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had far better evidence and analysis.
Vote Placed by Mrparkers 3 years ago
Mrparkers
ghille_in_the_mistblue_charlesTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: I normally don't give out all 7 points. Conduct goes to Con because Pro ff'd more. Spelling and grammar goes to Con for Pro's poor formatting and grammar usage. Arguments to Con for refuting Pro's points and presenting his own, which went unrefuted. Sources to Con for actually using them.