The Instigator
nick64
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Zeph
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Ovechkin Vs Crosby is Ovechkin better ?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Zeph
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/14/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,502 times Debate No: 27194
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

nick64

Pro

Is Ovechkin better ? or not let show begain !
Zeph

Con

Greetings! I would first off like to thank PRO for this debate and wish him the best of luck in this debate as well. Now right to the willy-nilly.

As PRO, he must:
  • Prove that Alexander Ovechkin is a better player than Sidney Crosby of the NHL using statistics, and not personal references or opinions.
As CON, I must:
  • Prove that Sidney Corsby is in fact better than Alexander Ovechkin of the NHL using statistics, and not personal references or opinions.
To start off the first round I shall post the career statistics of both players during their terms in the NHL.

Alexander Ovechkin's Statistics since beginning with the NHL in 2005 are as follows [1]:
  • 553 Games Played
  • 339 Goals
  • 340 Assists
  • 679 Total Points (Goals+Assists=Points)
  • 372 Penalties in Minutes (A minor penalty is normally 2 minutes long, a major penalty worth 4 or more dependant on the severity of the penalty.)
Sidney Crosby's Statistics since beginning with the NHL in 2005 are as follows [2]:
  • 434 Games Played
  • 223 Goals
  • 386 Assists
  • 609 Total Points
  • 401 Penalties in Minutes


Now, I will start off the debate with two contentions for PRO to refute in Round 2.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Contention 1: Sidney Crosby has a better Points per Game (or PPG) than Alexander Ovechkin.

As we can see from the statistics provided above, it is safe to say that Sidney Crosby has a much better PPG than Alexander Ovechkin. This is relevant because the PPG is what determines who is the MVP at the end of every season and ultimately, what determines who is the best player in the NHL at any given time as it factors in the amount of gametime played and the amount of goals and assists that player has contributed to the team.

To organize it more neatly:

  • Sidney Crosby PPG: 1.403
  • Alexander Ovechkin PPG: 1.227
Also, taking into account Sidney Crosby's injury he sustained in 2011, forcing him to play only a minimal 22 games that season, this is rather impressive. Not only that, but Sidney Crosby in his 2006 season capped his PPG with 120 points in that season ALONE. The closest that Alex Ovechkin has come to that number at all is in 2007 when he scored 112 points.

Not only that, but as a player, Sidney Crosby's skill seems to only be gaining. In 2007, when Alexander Ovechkin scored his 112 point season, each following season after, it began to decline dramatically from 112 in 2007 to 110 in 2008 to 109 in 2009 to 85 in 2010 then to 65 in 2011. However, even in an injury marred 2010 and 2011 season, Sidney Crosby's points, seem to be going up, with 72 in 2007 to 103 in 2008 to 109 in 2009 to 66 in 2010 (with only 41 games played due to injury) to 37 in 2011 (with only 22 games played due to injury). Many NHL and sporta analysts predicted that if Sidney Crosby had not been injured those two seasons, he might have easily broken NHL records having to do with points per season, points in career, or even goals per season.
________________________________________________________________________________________________


I will await my opponent's round 2 argument to present more evidence and facts as to why Sidney Crosby is a better player than Alexander Ovechkin.

Thank you for your time and best of luck to PRO!

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
nick64

Pro

At first i would like to thank my opponent for join this debate, thank you for intro. As well your time wish you good luck. It is my onor.

Now i will introduce my three main points.

Well known Crosby Vs. Ovechkin

My opponent mention all statistics, we can see that ovechkin made better proces, of cours i didn't forget abute Crosby's inujuri he also mentioned that " Many NHL and sporta analysts predicted that if Sidney Crosby had not been injured those two seasons, he might have easily broken NHL records having to do with points per season, points in career, or even goals per season." i would like to pick up you there, can you answer my this qouestion what analysts (names) and exact number and i would like to have information abute year that reasurche is made thank you.

My 2nd point. Ovi jr. vs. Crosby jr.
Ovechkin played for Russian representation science he was 17 i repeat 17 but his leauge matte joined his cuntry team as 19 year's old boy at the same world cups and olympic's we can see by our naked eye that Ovi. is better here is statistics .
Ovi first sesson in representation . Ovi. also played that year for three years older team u 20
Russia U18

Russia U20 WJC-20 GP6 G6 A1 TP7 4 8

WJC-18 GP8 G14 A4 TP18 PM0

Crosby first sesson in representation

Canada U20 WJC-20 GP6 G2 A3 TP5 PM4 4


but let me give you black on white statistics.

Ovi played .
junior representation total u 18
WJC-18: GP 14 G23 A8 TP31 PPG2.21 6


U 20
GP18 G18 A7 TP25 PPG1.39 33

world cup (senior)
WC: GP55 G26 A18 TP44 PPG0.80 57 30

Russia All (senior)
Russia: GP151 G36 A33 TP69 PPG0.46 104 26


Crosby games

U 20
WJC-20: GP12 G8 A6 TP14 PPG1.17 8 8

World cup SENIOR

WC: GP9 G8 A8 Tp16 PPG1.78 10 7


FOR MY CONCLUSION

this was very clear information my source is Ovechkin http://www.eliteprospects.com...

and Crosby http://www.eliteprospects.com...

In this round i had clearly proved evidence , my source was supportec by International ice hockey federation, National Hockey leauge and KHL kontinental hockey leauge.

In the end i would just like to say Thank you ladies and gentelmen, To my opponent good luck in second round .

once again Thank you
Zeph

Con

First off, I would graciously like to thank my opponent for posting in a timely manner and being so considerate of my small abscence. The second thing is that I would also ask for a little leeway as, not to sound rude, I can hardly understand what he is saying, but I will refute it to the best of my interpretation.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Opponent's Refutation
The first thing that my opponent addresses is the source/statistic that shows where analysts believe he could be the next record breaker. Well according to Mark Leiren-Young an acclaimed and NHL.com official blogger posted on one of his blogs that:

"instead of continuing his ascent to becoming the next Gretzky, Sid the Kid is on the road to being the next Eric Lindros -- the guy who coulda been one of the all-time greats if only he didn't have a glass skull." (sic) [1]

Essentially, Leiren says that if Crosby had not been marred by injury in his latter season, he could have beaten Gretzky, nowhere have I yet to see anyone posting or analyzing Ovechkin to be the next Gretzky, and my opponent fails to prove that. By the way, this was blogged in March of 2012, towards the postseason of the 2012 NHL season, of which Crosby was injured.

[1]: http://www.huffingtonpost.com...;
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Refutation: Opponent's 2nd point?

This is just a refutation of his second point, er, from what I can gather.

So from what I can tell, my opponent believes that just by mere experience alone, Alex Ovechkin is better than Sidney Crosby. To bolster this claim, he uses the example of Ovechkin beginning his Hockey career at age 17, and Sidney Crosby beginning his at age 19. The fact of the matter is, this in no way proves who is better than the other player. This is like me saying that Sidney Crosby has been to the NHL Finals twice, won it once and has a gold medal in the Olympics, and Ovechkin has none, which makes him better then Ovechkin. Which is not only true but is even more substantial than PRO's claim. PRO even misinterprets the data he provides by stating that Ovechkin played for a team that had players that were 3 years older than him. My opponent must not understand that "U20" stands for under 20, which means that players must be under 20 to play in that league...meaning, 19, 18, 17 or 16 years of age. That specific league, upon conducting more research using PRO's link provided above, contains players who average around only 18 years old...much less than my opponent proports to be.

The next thing I would like to address is the presentation of facts that PRO seems to provide. PRO compares Sidney Crosby to Alexander vechkin in their younger years and then deducts that Alexander Ovechkin did better as a child than Sidney Crosby did. The fact of the matter is, PRO is comparing apples to oranges. Comparing Crosby to Ovechkin in their younger years in two completely different leagues, in two completely separate countries, is like comparing Hitler to Koopin (http://www.debate.org...) in a who's funnier contest. It's a no brainer, Hitler would win.

Conclusion: PRO has failed to refute my main contention that Crosby's overall gameplay in PPG is overwhelmingly better than Ovechkin's and he has failed to prove that Ovechkin is better than Crosby on EVEN GROUNDS (meaning in the same league against the same players).
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Contention 2: Sidney Crosby is much better looking than Alexander Ovechkin

Considering PRO failed to set the parameters of the debate, just to skill, I open up a new perspective to the debate. Another facet in which Sidney Crosby is better than Ovechkin is in his looks. I mean, have you seen Crosby? He is grade A man-meat. 10/10 would fap stuff, right there. Ovechkin, looks like a run-down Russian president lost in remembering his youth years, while sipping Vodka in his old child military uniform.

But in all seriousness. Sidney Crosby was voted #13 in a poll of Canada's sexiest and hottest people, right below Kim Cattral and one above Canada itself. [1]

[1]: http://www.amiannoying.com...(S(egvh1dqvo4snimfr5oepcr45))/collection.aspx?collection=11397



__________________________________________________________________________________
Conclusion:
My conclusion is rather simple and concise. PRO has yet to prove ANYTHING at all that Ovechkin is better than Crosby on an EVEN proving ground. He also fails to show any contradictory evidence to my first contention that Sidney Crosby's PPG (Points per game, see round 1) is substantially higher than Ovechkin's at any given point in the NHL. Thank you.

Please vote CON.
Debate Round No. 2
nick64

Pro

nick64 forfeited this round.
Zeph

Con

All arguments extended. Please vote CON.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by TigerTime 4 years ago
TigerTime
nick64ZephTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: pro's argument stopped being legible half-way through the debate, then he forfeited.
Vote Placed by emj32 4 years ago
emj32
nick64ZephTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit