The Instigator
npt2
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
beth.star
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Overweight people cannot be beautiful.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
npt2
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/10/2017 Category: Health
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 670 times Debate No: 101865
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

npt2

Pro

All over the world I hear stories about people making claims that "people should be comfortable in their own skin".

This is true- up to a point.

Fat acceptance is a relatively new movement that says people are beautiful no matter their size- even if that is morbidly obese and overweight.
When you are morbidly obese, you are unhealthy and disrespect yourself and those around you.

You can not be beautiful and overweight.
beth.star

Con

Since you didn't say the definition of beautiful I will
beau"ti"ful
G2;byoV2;odəfəl/
adjective
pleasing the senses or mind aesthetically.
"beautiful poetry"
synonyms:attractive, pretty, handsome, good-looking, alluring, prepossessing; More
of a very high standard; excellent.
"the house had been left in beautiful order"
You`re right, obesity is not healthy, and it is looked down upon, but the definition of beautiful contradicts your argument.
It states "pleasing the senses or mind aesthetically" which implies that beauty is in the eye of beholder.
Also you did not define overweight
o"ver"weight
adjective
G6;!3;vərG2;wāt/
1.
above a weight considered normal or desirable.
"he's forty pounds overweight"
synonyms:fat, obese, stout, full-figured, corpulent, gross, fleshy, plump, portly, chubby, rotund, paunchy, potbellied, flabby, well upholstered, broad in the beam; informalporky, tubby, blubbery, pudgy
"the growing number of overweight children is a legitimate health crisis"
This definition dose help your argument, however, you did not set a weight rage, so I cant further address your argument.
Debate Round No. 1
npt2

Pro

I assumed that for the sake of this argument wouldn't need to define them but thank you for doing that.

We can agree that obesity is not healthy. It is unhealthy.
un"health"y
adjective
harmful to health.
"an unhealthy diet"
synonyms:harmful, detrimental, destructive, injurious, damaging.

As far as weight range, the Body Mass Index is the standard. I have not set that scale, but is accepted in the medical realm as the established healthy weight range.

It is not beautiful to be obese. When someone makes conscious choices to become overweight, it is detrimental, unhealthy, and therefore cannot be perceived as beautiful.

It is delusional to state that you can be beautiful at any size. Obesity, one of the greatest causes of preventable death, is linked to some of the highest cases of hospitality and mortality including heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc.

If I said beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then said I think that abuse is beautiful, would you agree?
beth.star

Con

Yes I agree that it is delusional to think that "any" size is beautiful. As soon as they become unhealthy, some might consider it unattractive, but some obese look only mildly overweight and still be attractive. However I disagree that obesity is a choice. My brother classifies as "obese" but he did not chose to be the way he is. Sometimes obesity occurs along with other conditions, in my brothers case, autism, which is not a choice. His doctor said that if he wasn't autistic his weight would have been fine. So no, obesity (in most cases) is not a choice. And most (obese) people don't just wake up one day and decide to just become unhealthy with a bigger chance of death at an early age. Some obesity is developed in childhood, where a child has little to no control over their lives.
Debate Round No. 2
npt2

Pro

I will agree and will not say that outliers or symptoms, conditions like autism, or even diseases (such as Cushing syndrome) are a choice.
However, understand that those are the shrill minority. When people decide to consume more calories than they burn they gain excess weight and choose to be part of the overweight community.
I agree, most people don't just wake up and say, "today I will become unhealthy."
Rather, these choices are comprised of years and even decades of choices. These repercussions are the result of time.

Children, even the youngest of children, have a basic understanding of action and result. One cannot say they have no control over their choices. From the time we can walk we have autonomy. Unless there is a cognitive disconnect, one cannot say they don't have control over their weight.

My original thought was that weight is acceptable to a point.
Anything beyond the BMI is harmful. Harm is not beauty, it is the opposite.

You haven't addressed my question: if beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I say that abuse is beautiful, is it?
beth.star

Con

To address your question, I meant your perception on a human body, I regret not mentioning that, my apologies.

If you wanted this to be about obesity, then you should have labeled it "Obese people cannot be beautiful" instead of "Overweight people cannot be beautiful" as they are technically two different groups of (weight) classification (looking at it from a medical stand point).
Debate Round No. 3
npt2

Pro

You are right. It should have been labeled differently.
And at first I had the mindset that beauty is black and white- either something is or is not beautiful. However, you're right that beauty is and can be on a scope. Whereas attraction is probably more black and white- something (to someone) is attractive or not.

That being said, I am not discussing subjective attraction fascinations.
Unhealthy decisions and actions that lead to a person becoming overweight and/or obese is neither attractive nor beautiful. Wouldn't you agree? If beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I tell you abuse is beautiful, is it?

My problem is the fact that the idea of being overweight is glorified and glamorized. For crying out loud, every new show on TLC or MTV or ABC or 123 has an obese person showing off their overweight body.
Now, the opposite of glamour is shame. I don't think that is productive either. But how about encouragement? We need to encourage people, children especially, to be conscious of their actions. If you consume more calories than you burn, you will gain excess weight. This is harmful and destructive and can not be beautiful.

These are not my subjective opinions. We have social norms for a reason. But the reason I even bring this issue up is that social standards are dropping. With the rise of hedonism and nihilism and the do-what-makes-you-feel-good mentality, it is no surprise that obesity rates continue to climb.
And from a biological standpoint, vitality is something we can judge at face value. Someone walking around with too much fat will be less likely to be desired as a mate. But let's face it, they probably aren't walking around too much. Heyo! For my next debate, "Comedy needs CPR- an in depth look at people protesting about their feelings."
beth.star

Con

Again, by saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" I was referring to different weight preferences for romantic partners or aesthetic attraction.

You are right that eating more calories that you burn is destructive, but I fail to see how that is "shame" ful. Yes it puts your health at risk, and society looks down on that, but honestly its a part of humanity. Society has set unrealistic beauty standers that are ridiculous, such as having clear skin, being a certain weight, or having a certain hair color or style. However, all those things are what make us diverse and special, the human body is a beautiful.

You cant summarize everyone's preference on over weight people, because a lot of people have different beauty standers that are different from society's.

But since obesity and the classification of being over weight are technically two different things, parts of this argument are invalid.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by 2Sense 9 months ago
2Sense
"If a woman is fat, she will say that she is curvy, that she was born this way, that she has big bones, that she is beautiful at any size.

If a man is fat, he will tell you, "I am fat. I need to lose weight.""

I think gross simplifications are just that: gross simplifications. There isn't much weight to this statement. No pun intended.
Posted by npt2 9 months ago
npt2
People comment on this comment:

If a woman is fat, she will say that she is curvy, that she was born this way, that she has big bones, that she is beautiful at any size.

If a man is fat, he will tell you, "I am fat. I need to lose weight."
Posted by Masterful 9 months ago
Masterful
Anyone who says fat girls are desirable has a fat fetish. Being fat is unhealthy and that makes you unfit to raise my children so go workout you fat b***h.
Posted by TheBenC 9 months ago
TheBenC
Physical beauty is the result of evolution. Males and females want the best sexual partners, the ones that will provide them with the best children. This process causes the species to improve over generations. Physical attributes, like size and symmetry, signal to the opposite sex that you are at a certain level of evolutionary desirability.

Fat people are not beautiful for many factors. Overall it signals to potential mates that the fat person does not have what it takes to produce many alpha male/female children.
Posted by RR-MKIV 9 months ago
RR-MKIV
No, I take it back. No trigger warning. This is fair and civil. @Beth, forgive me, but from reading on your profile, I figured this would be little bit of a contentious subject for you. Clearly you are only arguing from a technical stand point, not an emotional one. This is something hard to find from other liberals. My apologies.
Posted by RR-MKIV 9 months ago
RR-MKIV
Trigger Warning to Pro.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by samsun01 9 months ago
samsun01
npt2beth.starTied
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Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: I think that overweight people can be beautiful