The Instigator
Merdeci
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
quarterexchange
Con (against)
Winning
34 Points

Palestine

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
quarterexchange
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/27/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,580 times Debate No: 16744
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (12)
Votes (6)

 

Merdeci

Pro

I am against the Israeli invasion, and are strongly against what Israel has done against the Palestinians. Palestine was taken for no good reason, and since that time they were evicted from their land, they have been terrorised. The opponent will be for Israel and what they have done. I hope for a good and polite debate. I let my opponent start first.

Good luck.
quarterexchange

Con

I thank Pro for putting forth an interesting topic

I will be arguing for the Israeli actions against Palestine.

Here we go


Background

Let it be known, that Israel is a legitimate nation with the rights to the land they occupied in 1948. They have victoriously held that territory despite multiple attacks from neighbooring Arab nations such as the Yom Kippur and Six Day War. [1] Israel has been given it's territory, has defended itself in several large wars and is therefore a sovereign nation. Just like when the U.S. broke away from England, just like when Cuba broke away from the U.S, just like when East Europe broke away from Russia.

Therefore Israel is a legitimate and sovereign nation and has the right to defend itself and nations that choose to leave it alone will not feel Israel's wrath.

But Israel hasn't been left alone. Ever since the creation of Israel, Israel has been plagued with constant terrorist attacks. [2][3] Many of those responsible have been Palestinian terror groups including but not limited to:
  • Black September
  • Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)
  • Fatah
  • Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
  • Hamas
So we have a legitimate, sovereign nation being constantly attacked by terrorist groups.

These terrorist groups are fighting for Palestine, from Palestine and are funded by Palestine. [4]


Argument: Israel has the right to defend herself

Israel is, by all definition of the word, a sovereign nation. It has been able to hold it's territory for more than half a century and it is ridiculous to spend any more time fighting to prove otherwise.

With that said, Palestinian terror groups have been conducting routine attacks on Israel by multiple different terror groups.

For the past 40 years, Palestinian terror groups have been blowing up Israeli army vehicals, hijacking airplanes, exchanging gunbattles in populated areas killing Israeli soldiers, policemen, and civilians.

These terror groups are funded by Palestinan tax dollars.

Since Israel is a soviergn nation, and Palestine is funding terrorist groups to wage war against Israel, Israel has the right to wage war on Palestine.

By waging war on Palestine Israel has taken Palestinian territory and annexed it. This is a common consequence of war and merely the outcome of a tragedy instigated by Palestine itself.

Israel has proven to be a peaceful nation.

After the 6 Day War and Yom Kippur War, Israel had given back the territories it rightfully captured such as the Sinai Peninsula [5] and has offered to give back the Golan Heights to Syria [6].

Israel has even returned the Gaza Strip back to Palestine but took it back with force when during the Second Intifada, rockets being launched from Palestinian terrorists were found to have been launched from the Strip.[7]

Therefore I argue that if Palestine ceased their aggression immediately, cut off all funding to the terrorist groups, and sued for peace with Israel, Palestine would not be ravaged by a war they have no possibility of effectively fighting.

Vote CON


Sources


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
(History of conflicts fought by Israel)

[2] http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
(List of terrorist attacks on Israel)

[3] http://www.adl.org...
(List of terrorist attacks by Hamas)

[4] http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
(Palestine imposes a "Palestine liberation Tax Fund" on its citizens. A 5% on every citizen's income. Proceedes are given to terrorist groups)

[5] http://www.britannica.com...
(After capturing the Sinai Peninsula Israel gave it back after Egypt proved it wanted peace)

[6] http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
(Israel offers to give Golan Heights to Syria)

[7] http://en.wikipedia.org...
(Israel has returned Gaza Strip to Palestine, they took it back when terror rockets were being launched from the area.)
Debate Round No. 1
Merdeci

Pro

Jews and Muslims believe in the same God. Israeli soldiers who are true believers must not forget that God has forbidden the killing of innocent people and the use of violence and cruelty, and has ordered us to be tolerant, understanding, and peaceful.
The Torah commands Jews to establish peace and security, not to occupy the lands of others and spill blood. The people of Israel are described as "a light unto the nations" in the Torah. As the "Rabbis for Human Rights" declare:
We are told: "Justice, justice, you shall pursue" (Deuteronomy 16:20). Why is the word justice said twice? Because, according to our tradition, one is to pursue a just cause by just means. In defending ourselves, we must always hold on to the prophetic vision of decency and humanity. The survival of the Jewish people will be determined not only by its physical acumen, but also, by its moral steadfastness.
the Israelis continue to treat the Palestinians as they do now, they may be unable to account for that to God. Similarly, those Palestinians who kill innocent Israelis may also be unable to account for those murders. Is it not a duty in the eyes of God to put an end to the fighting, which is dragging both sides deeper into unending violence?
Say: "O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding upon both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; and that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." (Qu'ran, 3:64)
This is our call to the Jews, a People of the Book: As people who believe in God and obey His commands, let us come together in a common formula of "faith." Let us love God, the Lord and Creator of all of us. Let us abide by His commands. Let us pray to God to lead us further on the path of righteousness. Let us bring love, compassion, and peace to each other and the world, not hostility, bloodshed, and anguish.
That is where the solution to the Palestinian tragedy and other conflicts in the world lies. The deaths and suffering of so many innocent people remind us every day what an urgent task this is.
How Can the Palestinian Issue Be Resolved?
1) Israel must immediately withdraw from all the territories it occupied during the 1967 war and end the resulting occupation. That is an obligation under international law, various U.N. Security Council resolutions, and mere justice itself. All of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip must be recognized as belonging to an independent State of Palestine.
2) East Jerusalem, the site of significant places of worship belonging to three divinely revealed religions, must be administered by the Palestine authority. However, it must have a special status and be turned into a city of peace that all Jews, Christians, and Muslims can visit comfortably, in peace and well-being, and where they can worship in their own sanctuaries.
Palestine broke free from Ottoman rule after the First World War with the help of the invading British army, but could never achieve the state of peace and security that it had enjoyed under the Ottomans. Over the course of nearly a century, thousands of innocent people have been killed by Israeli terror, massacres, and torture. Millions of innocent Palestinians have been forced from their homes and their homeland and sentenced to live in poverty, at the brink of starvation, in refugee camps. All efforts to solve this oppression and cruelty, played out before the world's eyes, and to build a sustainable regional peace have failed. The phony peace initiatives carried out under the auspices of Western governments have proven to be of no use, other than to buy time for Israel to carry out new tactics for depopulating the territories it occupied.
First of all, we must realize that the events in Palestine are much more than merely a ware between Arabs and Israelis. A struggle for existence is being waged by the Palestinians, whose lands and rights were removed forcibly by occupying Israeli forces. What is more, the lands in question contain sites that are sacred to Muslims. Palestine is very important to Muslims because of Jerusalem, the Muslims' first qibla, and the site of the Prophet Mohammed's miraculous mi'raj (night journey). Furthermore, Palestine is sacred not only to Jews and Muslims, but to Christians as well. For these reasons, it is folly to try and keep Palestinian lands, Jerusalem in particular, under the authority of an exclusively nationalist political entity or to recognize the rights of only one religious or national group. Palestine must be a land where Jews, Christians, and Muslims can live together in peace and fulfill their religious duties as they wish.
A merciless struggle continues today between the two peoples living in the land of Palestine. On the one hand, the well-equipped Israeli army is carrying out a policy of all-out destruction; on the other, radical Palestinian groups are carrying out suicide bombings against helpless Israeli citizens. This book will discuss the grave error of trying to solve existing problems through violence, and how a real solution might be devised.
Here one important fact must not be ignored - the Palestinians are being subjected to cruelty and humiliation while the entire world watches. While Palestinian civilians daily find themselves the targets of Israeli soldiers' bullets, while millions of people spend many years in hunger and poverty in refugee camps, while many Muslims (including women) are tortured in Israeli prisons, there are grave responsibilities incumbent upon all Muslims who believe in God and fear the Day of Judgment. The first responsibility is to fight the racist, intolerant, Social Darwinistic ideologies that form the basis of all unfairness and injustice in the world.
As you read these lines, know that the struggle of thousands of beleaguered Palestinians to remain on their lands continues in all of its violence. The occupying Israeli forces may be bombing Palestinian cities or refugee camps. Possibly, children will be going to school under helicopter fire, and families who were forced to flee over 50 years ago will still be trying to scratch out an existence in the refugee camps. In any part of the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, or Jerusalem, Palestinians today will endure oppression and cruelty mostly because they are "Muslim."
Jews against Israeli terrorism
This does not oppose and criticize Judaism or Jews, but rather the racist Zionist ideology and its defenders. All the tragedy that has happened - and continues to happen - in Palestine is traceable to the application of the Zionist ideology by its leaders. It is Zionism that causes the Israeli army to fire rockets on children playing in schoolyards; sprays bullets on women harvesting their gardens' crops; and makes torture, violence, and skirmishes daily parts of Palestinian life.
Throughout the world today, quite a few intellectuals, politicians, and historians oppose Zionism. Various Christian and Jewish thinkers and authors condemn it and the Israeli governments' Zionist policies, as do various academics in Israeli universities such as the late Israel Shahak or Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi, who criticize Israeli violence directed against Palestinians and who maintain that peace can be acheived only when Israel forsakes its Zionist ideology. Noam Chomsky, himself a Jew, has written many books and articles that are highly critical of Zionism and the policies of those countries that support it.
A group of Jewish academics, the self-proclaimed "new historians," has been exposing the "sacred lies" embedded in official Israeli policy, and the truths associated with them, since the early 1980s. Its members, namely, Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, Avi Shlaim, Tom Segev, Baruch Kimmerling, Simha Flappan, and Joel Miqdal, are provoking strong reactions from Jews with Zionist leanings. They deal with the following "sacred lies": Arabs are racially inferior to Jews, Israel is a small country trying to sur
quarterexchange

Con

I afraid to report that my opponent has plagarized his entire argument.


It can be found here (http://www.harunyahya.com...) It is towards the bottom of the page.


I'm not going to bother giving a reply since I put forth the thought, effort and time to come up with my own argument while my opponent simply copy and pasted drivel that does not even counter the points I make.



My opponent has show terrible conduct by plagarizing.

My opponents plagarized argument does not even respond to the points I have made.

Vote Con
Debate Round No. 2
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Dimmitri.C 5 years ago
Dimmitri.C
The Israeli state is theologically referred to and justified as the Jewish promise land. The only reason Arabs reside in Israel is due to the Ottoman Empires invasion and destruction of Byzantine--a shamefully disappointing event.
Posted by TheFreeThinker 5 years ago
TheFreeThinker
WOW.
Plagiarizing a debate and then attacking his opponent. This is shameful.
IF you really wanted to just use the arguments you could have listed the information as coming from somewhere else, but instead you tried to sell it as your own.

By the way, if you repost the debate and are ready to argue with your own intellect, I will take the challenge in 2 seconds.
Posted by mcc1789 5 years ago
mcc1789
Although I agree with Merdeci on this issue (absent his religious arguments) failure to make it clear he was quoting from other sources is plagiarism and so he loses the conduct point. He also failed to answer quarterexchange's arguments since the sources did not address them specifically.
Posted by quarterexchange 5 years ago
quarterexchange
@wolfhaines: If that's the only flaw you found in my argument then I know I did a good job

@Merdeci: Stupid accusations? The definition of plagarism is to take the ideas of another and pass them off as your own. Which you clearly did. Therefore my accusation of you plagarizing was not without warrant.

I will win this debate because I followed the proper conduct of a respectable member of this site.

I'm not going to bother putting forth the effort to rationalize a situation, research the appropriate information, and formulate an opinion and a strong argument on the matter which could take several hours even days when my opponent is not willing to do the same.

It took 5 minutes to find out you plagarized. Your 11,000 character response which continued in the private message you sent me was off topic, did not respond to my arguments, and was too quick for you to post for the amount you posted. All I had to do was search the first statement you made in a google toolbar.

In all honesty if you had waited a day to post it would have been more reasonable to believe it was your own work and you could have gotten away with it.

P.S. This is a debating site and what debaters frequently do is take up positions that oppose their views just to give them a challenge.

For all you know I agree with you, you insipid moronic jackass.
Posted by wolfhaines 5 years ago
wolfhaines
The USA declared independence from BRITAIN, not England. Jeeez, why is it so hard for Americans to comprehend a difference between Britain and England.
Posted by Merdeci 5 years ago
Merdeci
Becouse you can not! Instead you come with such stupid accusations. As I said, I challenge you to respond to what I copied! Copied or not, facts are facts! And obviously you can not answer that. It is sad that that you will win this debate just because I copied something. The best thing about it all is that you use it to win and get the votes, since you can't win votes in a different way. For example, disprove me! You spent about 2 hours only to find that site I did copied from, so you could get the votes. you realized that to disprove what I copied was simply impossible. You are pathetic!
Posted by quarterexchange 5 years ago
quarterexchange
You failed because you didn't have the intellect, skill, or effort to put forth an argument yourself.

I am not required to respond to plagarized content and by simply copying and pasting the ideas and arguments of another as your own you clearly plagarized
Posted by Merdeci 5 years ago
Merdeci
Yes I did, because they can this more than me. Can you answer them then? Just because you cannot answer them, you are saying that you do not need to answer me and e.t.c, just because I copied what I did say. That's just a Prof that you have lost! You can not disprove It! I copied It from http://www.palestiniantragedy.com..., and so? Does that mean that I i have fail? This is just a funny excuse, because you can not answer what I did copied. LOL
Posted by quarterexchange 5 years ago
quarterexchange
You didn't cite facts, you copied and pasted entire arguments from other people.
Posted by Merdeci 5 years ago
Merdeci
Haha, are you serious? It's the same where it comes from, or if I copied it. Facts are facts! As you can see he can not answer that I just copied from another mega smart guy. Come on, I challenge you to answer that. Since he can not answer it, he begins to make foolish statements like: Everything you said is copied and so on. Haha, ridiculous!
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
MerdeciquarterexchangeTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for plagiarism, S&G for wall of text (also "ware"=war, etc.), Pro gave no sources. Pro made many unsupported assertions. Too bad, this is an important topic worth a serious debate.
Vote Placed by TheFreeThinker 5 years ago
TheFreeThinker
MerdeciquarterexchangeTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Merdeci cheated
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
MerdeciquarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Nice copy and paste.
Vote Placed by mcc1789 5 years ago
mcc1789
MerdeciquarterexchangeTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Although I agree with Merdeci on this issue (absent his religious arguments) failure to make it clear he was quoting from other sources is plagiarism and so he loses the conduct point. He also failed to answer quarterexchange's arguments since the sources did not address them specifically.
Vote Placed by baggins 5 years ago
baggins
MerdeciquarterexchangeTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious result because of plagiarization I will encourage Pro to read the link, understand it and then argue in his own words. It is a good website.
Vote Placed by Grape 5 years ago
Grape
MerdeciquarterexchangeTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Obvious.