The Instigator
Labrat228
Pro (for)
Winning
28 Points
The Contender
tatater
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

Palin having 5 kids is irrelevent.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Labrat228
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/4/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,640 times Debate No: 5269
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (11)
Votes (6)

 

Labrat228

Pro

I believe that Governor Palin having 5 kids is highly irrelevant. What is relevant is political experience and views that the candidates hold. I believe that the attacks on Palin's family were barbaric and senseless. Barrack Obama has said:
"I think people's families are off-limits, and people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor or her potential performance as a vice president."
Obama said reporters should "back off these kinds of stories" and noted that he was born to an 18-year-old mother. "How a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics, and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off-limits." (CNN)
McCain has also made statements similer to these, such as
"It is off limits to talk about her family." (FOX)

For once, both parties agree, it is off limits to talk about her family, I agree with both parties. Slandering of both senator McCain's Wife and Barrack Obama's wife has happened, and those statements were immediately condemned. But in Governor Palin's case, it has gone on all week, Political jokers such as Jay Leno have been joking about it all week as well. To end my R1 i will conclude with this, Governor Palin having 5 kids has nothing to do with how she can run our great country if need be.
tatater

Con

Palin having 5 children is relevant for 5 reasons:

1. In her speech at the RNC on Wednesday, Palin explained that she got involved into politics through a PTA (Parents-Teachers Association) "like any other hockey mom in America". With that Palin was saying that her political career is based on her strong family values and on commitment to her children. Here is the quote from Kaylene Johnson, Palin's biographer: "During her campaign for City Council, she and Todd went door to door pulling a wagon with their son Track, 4, and 2-year-old daughter, Bristol."

2. In Palin's case, the political views she holds are presented through her personal life. I am talking about the issue of abortion. Based on Palin's example, one can have a large family and a successful career. Therefore, based on Palin's example, a decision to have or not to have a child is not an economical decision. Considering the significance of the abortion debate in modern American politics, the fact that a vice-presidential nominee serves as a pro-life example will play crucial role for many voters. Palin clearly states that she is pro-life and repeatedly talks about her decision to keep a disabled child. In other words, Palin uses her 5 children as an argument in a political debate. Palin is a member of Feminists for Life, a Virginia-based pro-life organization. Decision to have 5 children is a personal choice that each of us has to make, however Palin uses it in her campaign to talk about abortion debate. The same way like Palin, now her daughter has made a decision to have her baby. In the political debate on abortion it plays a crucial role that Palin and her daughter chose that for themselves, because they had the opportunity to make that choice without government deciding for them. This will be continuously highlighted by pro-choice supporting media.

3. Palin's oldest son Track is enlisted to go to Iraq in September. Palin states that she is very proud of his decision to do so. From this voters will draw her opinion about the war on terror. Again, political views expressed through personal history.

4. For many American voters, elections are more about a moral stance of a person, rather than about their political promises. Regular, small town Americans will look at her and ask themselves: "I do not know about all them taxes and all that insurance. So, I will let my gut choose. Does she have values similar to mine? Can I trust her? How did she grow up? How about her family?" The same way everyone discusses John McCain's military background, people will discuss Palin's children as her personal experience.

5. McCain-Palin campaign released the statement about Palin's daughter, because McCain-Palin campaign wanted to bring some martyrdom to Palin's persona through rising above all dirt.
Debate Round No. 1
Labrat228

Pro

Hi voters and hi tatater, Thank you for taking my debate!

My opponent seems to not understand that I'm not debating on her views on abortion, i am debating on if her "family life" is fair game for media attacks and on if it could possibly effect her ability to lead our nation if need be. Anyone who read my R1 can obviously see that. I will now take my opponents views in order presented and then i will conclude.

1. Sarah began her career through the PTA, true, but highly irrelevant to the current subject. It has nothing to do with the ability to lead our nation, and it is also a bad reason for the media to attack her, after all, being in the PTA means you know a little bit about how the education system works. My father was on the CCHS (Craig County High School) school board, he worked hand and hand with the PTA.

2. Again, I'm not talking about abortion, I'm talking about her ability to lead our nation. Yes, she chose to have a baby with a disability, yes she uses this decision to prove that she is pro life, but no, this doesn't have anything to do with her ability to lead. It also isn't a reason for the News Media to attack her. Mrs. Obama gave speeches when he began running for president of the united states. When she was attacked, it was announced as wrong and it was stopped immediately. I'm only saying that the same fairness is in order.

3. McCain's son, Jimmy, 18, a Marine Corps enlistee, is now serving in Iraq, he mentioned that last night, are you telling me that that shouldn't have been mentioned because it is telling his views on the War in Iraq? Oh, by the way, he also said he was proud of him.

4. Pure Speculation, not backed up by evidence but by personal opinion. I think what my opponent is trying to say is, People will look at her family more than her promises. If that is true, Should Obama be talking about his grandparents who have served in war? Same situation right?

5. Again, pure speculation. When your family is under attack, you defend it. They released the statement because she was under attack (she being her daughter). Cause and effect, Media attacks daughter, Palin attacks personal views about her daughter.

My closing argument is this.
I believe these attacks on Palin's family are sexist. If it was Mr Palin would their be so much buzz about his ability to run the white house with 5 children?
tatater

Con

What my opponent and I should have discussed right of the bat is for what subject we consider 5 kids of Sarah Palin irrelevant. Based on the post in 2nd round, my opponent is arguing that Palin's children are irrelevant in regards to Palin's ability to lead the country. My post in the 1st round was in regards to relevancy of Palin's large family to the campaign.
So let me refocus and discuss how Palin's children are relevant to her ability to lead the country.

Relevance is "the relation of something to the matter at hand" (wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn).

1. Nearly 24% of families with children who have special health care needs choose to cut back or stop
working (National Survey of Children with Special Health Care Needs, 2005/2006).

2. Women are twice most likely to take time off work to care for their children than men, if both parents are working. Bond, J.T., Thompson, C., Galinsky, E., & Prottas, D. (2002). Highlights of the national study of the changing workforce. No. 3. New York, NY: Families and Work Institute.

3. Sexist means "discriminatory on the basis of sex (usually said of men's attitude toward women)" (wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn). Considering Palin's children relevant to her ability to lead the country is not sexist, because it is not related to her gender, but rather to her family status. For example, Hilary Clinton has an adult daughter, and therefore she would not need to take time from work to care for her.

Disclaimer: This debate is a brain exercise. My personal opinion differs from the point I was defending.
Debate Round No. 2
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by cmrnprk07 8 years ago
cmrnprk07
Brat_Egostoned says: "She could easily end this speculation, of course, by agreeing to have independent DNA tests conducted on the boy but she refuses to. I wonder why?"
Do you really wonder why? Wouldn't that DNA test require the permission of the mother, Palin, and also require a sample of Palin's DNA? What happened to the "woman's right to her own body" position you argued previously? Could it be that the woman has a right to do with her, "own body", what she wills, only if she is killing another human in the process? We could ask the baby if he wants to give up a sample of his DNA, but I suspect we'd not get an acceptable affirmative response. Although, I'm sure that Brat_Egostoned would take the baby's, "GOO-GOO", as a YES!
What's it to you anyway, Ego_stoned, don't you live, "cross the pond". Oh yeah, and didn't we YANKS kick the snott out of you "Brits" some time back? Yes, yes we did, "The American war of Independance", as you Brits call it. We fought and won to gain independance from you Brits, but you little buggers always find a way, don't you?
Posted by Leftymorgan 8 years ago
Leftymorgan
I need to understand something here. The media keeps bring up the raising 5 kids. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't she have one that is apparently old enough join the service? So that one is raised. Then the next oldest one is 17, so she is pretty much raised also? So with that being said, she really would have 3 to worry about and the next one almost a teenager? So I put to those supporting Obama, doesn't he have 2 kids that are younger than Sara's 3 oldest? And in this day and age, aren't there stay at home dads? So yes I agree that the number of children she has is irrelevAnt.
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
I beleive that Palins daughter is 5 months pregnant,... Probably not biologically possible for to be the mother of the new baby.
Posted by bluestater 8 years ago
bluestater
Although I do not support Palin as VP, I do agree that is completely irrelevant that she has five children. The number of children does not interfere with the way you make political decisions or how you govern a country.
Posted by magpie 8 years ago
magpie
TATATER: I believe that you have missed the point at issue. It's not about how Palin has presented her children, but rather, whether she is unqualified by virtue of having those children. Save your pro-abort rants for a debate on abortion. Labrat228 is arguing that having five children does not invalidate a candidate to high office.
Posted by Danielle 8 years ago
Danielle
I love Con's first argument - very well done.

Also, John McCain refused at first to release his medical documents; however, when he did nothing of significant impct was revealed... so simply denying the entire nation an account of personal, family business is not necessarily indicative of anything shady. I also think that if this were true, whistle blowers from the left would have already made this known.
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
Obama said the issue of Palin's family was off limits to his political activists - very sensible and politically astute I would say.

However, I'm not a member of the Democrats so that means nothing to me!

(evil laugh!)
Posted by magpie 8 years ago
magpie
Shame on those of you spreading these ugly rumors. Four pieces of strong evidence militate against Trig being the son of Bristol: 1. Down Syndrome is almost exclusively the product of older mothers. 2. The high profile of a governor from a small town would have been an open invitation to investigate - real time. 3. Bristol would have needed to hide her pregnancy, while her mother pretended to be pregnant. 4. Bristol would have had to have gotten pregnant again in the hospital.
Is there no limit to a liberal's hubris? How dare Sarah Palin be against abortion? She might actually influence a pregnant female from killing her child. God forbid! No wonder you like B.O. he wants to chase down and kill already born babies. A paragon of liberal virtue!
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
The title of this debate may be fundamentally flawed. If you believe the rumours going around, Sarah Palin only has four kids. She does however, have one grandson that she pretends is her youngest son Trig, but who is in fact her pregnant teenage daughter Bristol's first child.

http://bondibox.newsvine.com...

She could easily end this speculation, of course, by agreeing to have independent DNA tests conducted on the boy but she refuses to.

I wonder why?
Posted by Labrat228 8 years ago
Labrat228
Well, we must remember, anything is possible in the world of politics.
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Vote Placed by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
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