The Instigator
Juney
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
drafterman
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

Parents Should Be Held Responsible For Their School-going Children's Discipline Problem

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
drafterman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/15/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 31,395 times Debate No: 38975
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

Juney

Con

The first round is for acceptance only. No arguments should be placed in the first round.

*This debate should go for three (arguments) rounds.
*No new arguments should be placed in the third and fourth round.
*Sources are allowed.

Looking forward to a good debate...
Good Luck to whoever accepts the challenge... :)
drafterman

Pro

I'll accept.

However, I suggest that this not simply include "parents" but also "guardians." No semantic arguments vis-a-vis "orphans."
Debate Round No. 1
Juney

Con

[I agree with your suggestions. The only thing that confused me is your second statement: "No semantic arguments vis-a-vis 'orphans.' " Would you mind explaining it very briefly to me. :) ]

Now, I say that Parents Should NOT Be Held Responsible For Their School-going Children's Discipline Problem.

1. Children should develop their own Individual Responsibility earlier.

It should be so, because children should be taught to be less dependent to their parents and to other elders in such a way that they learn to behave by themselves. For a child, it is very common to commit mistakes. By this, parents should know how to resolve such situations and teach their children do the right thing. In this manner, children would be developing their responsibility.

2. Children usually have the attitude of Authority Aversion.

At this point, children usually don't listen to their parents. And so, we can see how parents are not responsible to their children's discipline problems in school but their children themselves are. I just want to point out here that these children are in a certain school *to learn* and to be educated. By it, I mean that children are the only one that should be held responsible for their own actions.

3. Failures can never be avoided.

We cannot expect parents to watch over their children all over the day. So, we can say the parents never should be held responsible for the reason that they are not always their for their children. Even though the parents are the one who knows the children best and the ones who taught and raised up their children but we can expect some parental responsibility failure at this time. We cannot assure every parents to be teaching every good attitude to their children.

And so, by these points it can be stated that Parents Should NOT Be Held Responsible For Their School-going Children's Discipline Problem.
drafterman

Pro

[ It's not really important, we can discuss in the comments after the debate. ]

1. Children should develop their own individual Responsibility earlier.

I agree that "parents should know how to resolve such situations and teach their children to do the right thing." Indeed, this is why parents are considered responsible. It is their job - their responsibility - to teach their children these things as to avoid disciplinary issues. When disciplinary problems arise, it is considered to be a failure on behalf of the parents. Even when it is not a failure, it is still upon the parents to rectify the situation through additional teaching.

Parents being considered responsible doesn't prevent children from developing their own individual sense of responsibility. Rather, it is a recognition that this is a gradual process over which the parent has authority and - with that authority - responsibility. Instead of interpreting parental responsibility as being exclusive to childhood responsibility, it is more accurate to think of it as being hierarchical. Society holds the parent responsible; the parent holds the child responsible. Thus the child learns responsibility in a controlled environment, rather than being tossed to the wolves of public scrutiny.

Lastly, it can be argued that parental responsibility is necessary to teach childhood responsibility. Children learn by example and the example that holds the most influence is that of their parents. Regardless of what the parent teaches through words, if those lessons are not support by examples, by the parent behaving in a consistent manner, then morals of those lessons won't take hold. In order for the child to learn responsibility, the parent must behave responsibly.

2. Children usually have the attitude of Authority Aversion.

Aversion to authority doesn't absolve the responsibility of that authority. Would my aversion to the authority of the police absolve them of their responsibility to society as it regards my behavior? No. If I break the law, they are responsible, to society, to execute that law, whether or not I am averse to their authority. Likewise, parents are responsible for their children's behavior regardless of the child's aversion to authority. As Pro stated: "parents should know how to resolve such situations and teach their children to do the right thing." Those lessons are all the more important through independent and rebellious streaks.

Pro continues to portray parental responsibility and childhood responsibility as being mutually exclusive. I reiterate that they aren't exclusive, they are related. Pro's suggestion that "children are the only one that should be held responsible for their own actions" is dangerous as well. Parents are also responsible for the safety of their children. To say that only a child is responsible implies that they can be punished directly by third parties. Yet who is to say that the punishment is just, fitting or appropriate? While no parent is perfect, as a convention, we leave the discipline of the child to the parents, and then hold the parents accountable for the child's behavior.

3. Failures can never be avoided.

The existence of failures or flaws does not mean we should abandon the entire strategy. The point of raising a child is to ensure that they can successfully integrate into society in an independent fashion and continue to behave without direct supervision. The teaching of these lessons must come from the parent, and they should be held accountable for the failings of those teachings. No one expects that the process go completely smoothly or predictably or without flaws, and we accept that (for the most part).

The idea that if something can't be don't perfectly then we can't do it seems extreme. Pro admits that the parent knows best, but then removes the parent from the equation and holds the child responsible. In order to remedy any disciplinary problems, the child must be taught from some source and, in so teaching the child, that source would be responsible for the outcome of those lessons. If not the parent - who knows best - then whom?
Debate Round No. 2
Juney

Con

Juney forfeited this round.
drafterman

Pro

Extend arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
Juney

Con

[I met very unexpected events ... Anyway, I don't find essence in refuting anymore since I had forfeited but I have to finish this round because this may be my last debate this year. I'll make this count. :) ]

Firstly, 'Pro' totally refuted my argument a little more general. I thought about focusing more about the child's school disciplinary problem. I know that when at home, it is really the parents that should be teaching them and telling them the right things to do to avoid disciplinary issues and take full responsibility to their children. Although, when disciplinary problems arise, the failure should be considered as the children's. It would be because the children are taking their parents' words and it is their decision that makes them do what they are told. Even at young age, the children should also be given the fault since the children's decisions let people see what they are taking into their mind and heart. So, when it comes to school, it is now the teacher, or any elders involved in that school, that corrects their decisions being made and make them learn more. I could say so since schools exist for students to be educated. For this reason, neither the parents nor the teachers should hold the full responsibility of a student's disciplinary problems but they themselves. Although, I agree "that parental responsibility is necessary to teach childhood responsibility" through their words and teachings but this only apply at homes or any other places where the parents are physically present but definitely not at school since parents would not always be there to look after them, time after time.

Secondly, I think that aversion to authority does absolve the responsibility of that authority. It would be because, as being talked about, parents are the ones who talk to their children and the children would then be the one to act out everything according to what their decisions would be. So, it can still concluded that parents are not totally accountable accountable for their child's behavior.

Thirdly, again, 'Pro' refuted my argument a little more general for the second time. I totally agree that parents are the ones who are accountable for their children's behavior, character and attitude in most aspects but totally not in school. Why would you such make the parents hold responsibility for their children's school discipline problem? They are not the ones being there but their child/children. I meant to reason out that the parent's responsibility can be a failure because when you make someone hold a responsibility over a child's disciplinary problem, you would expect to observe changes from that child in the following day/s. For this reason, I could say that parent responsibility failures would only make the situation worse and thus the responsibility should then be put over to the child himself by then.

Concluding, *CON* still says "Parents Should still NOT Be Held Responsible For Their School-going Children's Discipline Problem."

As for the last round, "I deeply apologize for making this debate 2 (arguments) rounds only which makes it not enough to talk about this topic. For my forfeit, there was some Internet Connection problem that I was not able to post my refutations within the time allotted. In addition, I was not expecting about school requirements: I was flooded with our clearance requirements because this week's our clearance week and semester break comes after. Anyway, I thank you for keeping this debate up with me and taking time with me to refute."
To voters, thank you in advance for reading and making your decisions with your votes. Vote straight please.
May the better speaker wins. God Bless Us All!
drafterman

Pro

1. Children should develop their own individual Responsibility earlier.

Pro seems to concede this, but adds the caveats:

"Although, when disciplinary problems arise, the failure should be considered as the children's. It would be because the children are taking their parents' words and it is their decision that makes them do what they are told."

The problem is that this ignores how children learn to make decisions. And they learn to make the correct decisions by being taught. Certainly there are outliers and exceptions, developmental and neurological disorders, but those aren't the norm.

The norm is that it is the parents primary responsibility to teach the children to make sensible decisions and, even if the parent is not "at fault" for a specific problem, the parent shoulds till be held responsible as a matter of fixing any problem that arises, to prevent it from happening in the future. Responsibility is not merely a matter of who to point the finger at, but who to look to for a solution.

"For this reason, neither the parents nor the teachers should hold the full responsibility of a student's disciplinary problems but they themselves."

No single person has "full" responsibility. However, we can identify who has the "primary" responsibility, who is the first and last line of teaching, who takes the brunt, and that is the parent. As part of the lesson, the parent holds the child responsible, but we - as a society - hold the parent responsible.

2. Children usually have the attitude of Authority Aversion.

Pro is basically saying, of children: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." The problem is that this phrase is only applicable to people who are their own authorities, who are fully independent. Children are not. Children are not expected to have full cognizance or capacity to understand the effects of their actions, so being averse to authority does not absolve the parents of their responsibility to teach the child.

3. Failures can never be avoided.

Pro again concedes with caveats:

"Why would you such make the parents hold responsibility for their children's school discipline problem?"

Because the child's behavior outside of the direct influence of the parent is still a reflection of how well those teachings have been imprinted on the child. Even if the parent is not "at fault" for some incident, the parent is the one we turn to resolve a problem as it arises, to teach the child the lesson to avoid the problem in the future. The whole point of parenthood is to equip the child with the tools they need to navigate society without the parent. Any issues in that regard ultimately stem back to the parent.
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by drafterman 3 years ago
drafterman
If I recall the discussion correctly (and I really don't want to reopen it) I was going to the extreme to get to a point of agreement, in an effort to back track so we can find the point of disagreement and address that.
Posted by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
RFD:

To begin with the easy ones: Neither side sourced, so sourcing is a tie.

Pro indicated in the "post unvoted" thread that we should "ignore the forfeit", so I will not give conduct--though if I've misunderstood what he meant, I will change the vote in favor of Pro for Con's forfeit.

S&G: I initially had this in favor of the Pro, due to some problems in my opinion with Con's sentence structure. Checking Con's profile, though, I see he's from the Phillipines, and I was able to read it. So I've canceled that out as I often give a little slack to those for whom English is a second (or third or what have you) language.

As to arguments:

Con seemed to be arguing over a zero-sum theory of responsibility. If the parents have responsibility, Con seems to be arguing, then the children don't. This wasn't an assumption of the resolution, though, nor in R1, and so when Pro points out "they aren't exclusive, they are related" he makes his case rather strongly. Pro's conclusion: "Even if the parent is not "at fault" for some incident, the parent is the one we turn to resolve a problem as it arises, to teach the child the lesson to avoid the problem in the future" supports his side enough to win the arguments--Con never really addressed this idea that it's <em>not</em> necessarily a zero-sum game, nor the practical point that we DO refer to parents for their children's behavior, as the ultimate authority on that child.

(On a personal note, I find myself a bit perplexed by these arguments from Pro, because they are akin to ones I thought I was making in a discussion with him in which he disagreed. This didn't factor into my vote, and I have no intention of reopening a discussion that closed some time back where, I believe, I annoyed Pro through what was undoubtedly my own rhetorical failing. Suffice to say, though, that I was a bit surprised at the arguments presented.)
Posted by Juney 3 years ago
Juney
Yeah, I got busy with my clearance requirements and we also got internet connection problem. I am sorry for that. :)
Posted by drafterman 3 years ago
drafterman
What happened? You were on a day ago.
Posted by Juney 3 years ago
Juney
artydublu:

I meant for children who are still going to school.
Posted by artydublu 3 years ago
artydublu
Can you clarify what you mean by "School-going Children's Discipline Problem?"
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
JuneydraftermanTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.